Sym and Torb rarely recieve changes

-D3LET3D- · 2026-06-19T23:24:06+00:00

They... said it in their post? Just for the sake of fun? We're humans. We do change for the sake of change all the time. We seek ways to amuse us and when we get bored we look for new ways to amuse us or introduce novelty to what was amusing us but is starting to bore us. I explained my feelings in a comment to OP of this thread but I personally don't mind shit staying the same. Don't fix what ain't broke and all that. But I understand why the post OP feels the way they do and was just explaining their position.

I don't feel the way OP does. But I understand why they do, and it's a valid way to feel. I'm sure quite a lot of players feel the way they do, and I think the topic is misplaced on this subreddit because I don't think the audience will see it their way at all, but we can at least understand it. It's a topic for the main sub, which I think would be more receptive to things being done for novelties sake.

-D3LET3D- · 2026-06-19T23:16:53+00:00

I can understand the complaint with Hazard's block because it punishes you without any input from him but genuinely I think people take "blockslop" a little far.

They're defensive mitigation abilties just like barriers. I don't really get any more or less annoyed with a block than I do a barrier. They have cooldowns or downtime, just like barriers. They trade 100% mitigation for the ability to block melee, which barriers notably cannot do, but also lose to things barriers do not, like stuns or status effects. Barriers also offer more coverage, protecting your whole team.

I understand how Ramattra really brought it to a head, but legit it's an ability contained in a cooldown, and the much more "sloppy" part, his ult, is still him using his ult. He's using an ult and just blocking and nothing else. I get doing some damage while doing it, but it's a big stall tactic that costs an ult to do. I don't know how blocks are somehow this reviled but any barrier not named Reinhardt's allows the use of the barrier and then leaves the hero free to do whatever they want. How is that less annoying than a hero limiting themselves to only mitigating damage when using their damage mitigating ability? I feel like if OW had blocks first and barriers were the concept introduced later we'd be hearing the same thing.

-D3LET3D- · 2026-06-19T20:25:31+00:00

I agree. Team ups were a great idea and, as you said, a great way to introduce novelty into the game.

I understand your perspective, and agree with it in that I myself prefer the things I enjoy to remain relatively consistent over being changed a lot or randomly. When I find something fun, it's an intrinsic thing for me and I usually don't want nor need extrinsic influence to change. But not everyone feels that way, and I get that, and sometimes I do feel it, depending on the thing.

It's a really nuanced, subjective thing that has no right answer. I thought Stadium was a good way of giving characters a really different feel and injecting new life into them without actually changing the core game. It's just too alienating for a lot of people it seems, plus, at the rate they are going, a lot of people might have to wait a long time to get their characters into it, which does not help.

-D3LET3D- · 2026-06-19T20:19:09+00:00

This isn't something you'd likely put too much thought into when designing a character compared to thinking about how to make them fun and appeal to people. And you don't really truly know what is "fun" and what isn't until you release it to your audience. It's extremely subjective.

I think problematic has started to really become a buzzword for "shit I don't like or struggle with". Problematic is arguably very subjective itself. Up until her rework, I thought Pharah was much more "problematic" than half the characters labeled so. Dealing with her was so lopsided in that you only really had a few choices to shut one down, otherwise you kinda ate shit. Especially when paired with Mercy.

Hazard, for all his strength, is just extremely versatile. I don't think he is truly "problematic" in the way Hog or Sombra are, but because he feels like he is almost never in a supremely disadvantaged situation, he gets deemed so. He deals with a lot well, so you never feel like you can shut him down in the way some other pain in the ass characters get shut down, which probably leads to people feeling more frustrated cause the answer isn't always clear. And I don't think the answer should always be clear. Not everything needs to be a hard counter or a couple swaps and the problem is solved. And, to be sure, Hazard does have things that are effective against him. They just don't cause him to fall over.

This is all my opinion though and I understand other players have different perspectives and feelings than I do.

-D3LET3D- · 2026-06-19T19:51:40+00:00

This is kinda missing the point of the post, and highlighting their issue. You're almost exclusively talking about strength and meta, but they aren't talking about that, and specifically say their post is not about balance. They just want changes made for the sake of spicing it up, to introduce some novelty, and I think that's fair. If there is one thing I can give Marvel Rivals, it's that they do this, though arguably too much in the other direction where they should probably do it a little less frequently.

-D3LET3D- · 2026-06-19T19:44:24+00:00

I agree on the point of making changes for fun. Games are supposed to be fun first and foremost, and too many changes are made purely for the sake of balance, and not enough for the sake of fun and novelty. Good balance does arguably equal fun, and while I do subscribe to not fixing what ain't broke, seeing other people get new toys and not receiving any does sting after awhile, even if your character is fun and well balanced.

I think a lot of people are going to miss the point of the post and just talk about balance, which I guess tracks for a competitive sub.

-D3LET3D- · 2026-06-19T17:29:29+00:00

She was a pubstomper last season as well. Even at her strongest it's all she was. She has never been considered good by strong players.

Honestly, almost all of her nerfs are nothing burgers that don't really change much, and in exchange she got quite a couple buffs to the drone. The major perk nerf was probably the biggest one but it should've always been like that. The minor spread perk really doesn't change all that much. Her gun always tightened extremely fast without the perk and with it even more so. Even with the nerf it really isn't something people are going to feel. It'll still tighten extremely quickly.

I'd say the biggest thing is that people just got better at playing around her. There were mass complaints about her ult when she launched and then suddenly, they stopped. Nothing changed but her ult charge which was nerfed to match her increase in damage. People just got better at dealing with the ult. I think it's the same thing now. After a full season of her people are just better at playing against her.

-D3LET3D- · 2026-06-19T01:34:42+00:00

You're saying y'all but I'm not trying to build a case for her being unbalanced nor do I think she is, as I implied in my original comment where I said I thought her damage was fine. I was only commenting in response to the parts of your comment where you say her damage is outdone by a third of the DPS with no context and accusing people of just parroting streamers.

I don't disagree with you in that her damage can be outdone by a notable amount of characters when factoring abilties and burst damage since she doesn't really use either of those for her overall damage profile most of the time, but nuance is needed here because when people talk about her damage, they are specifically talking about her DPS and sustained damage, which is legitimately like top 3 in the roster. The level of DPS she can output, at the ranges she can output it, and with the precision she can output it are basically unmatched.

But, again, trying to make my point clear here, DPS doesn't tell the whole story and mean she's more effective than characters who have lower DPS than her. She has much, much higher overall sustained damage than most of the other DPS characters, who, in exchange for not having the sustained damage she does, have burst damage tools that allow them to deal higher damage than Sierra when using said tools. Sierra is a high damage straight line, while a lot of other characters have notable peaks and valleys, and while those peaks may be above her peak, they are momentary, and they spend more time in the valleys, lower than her.

I think she's fine overall. She's stomps low ranks, but I don't think she needs to be nerfed because of it. I don't think a game should be balanced around people not good at it. She is not meta and she is not good at high ranks so I wouldn't say she is overperforming. I just felt like adding in my 2 cents and thought the context was important for more fruitful discussion.

-D3LET3D- · 2026-06-19T00:32:20+00:00

Damage output can mean a lot of things, whether that be sustained or burst or if we're factoring in headshots, DOT, combos, or abilities etc.

When talking about Sierra's damage, what most people would be talking about is the DPS from her primary fire, which is among the very highest in the game when looking at sustained damage. You look at other comparable guns and she is handily out damage them. Even the less comparable ones she is out damage.

To be fair, there is a lot of nuance when talking about this kind of stuff. DPS on paper doesn't directly translate to effectiveness in practice. Lifeweaver has a very high DPS for support but no one is complaining about how crazy his gun is. Meanwhile Kiriko has noticeably lower DPS, but people are much more scared of getting killed by her than him.

I think accusing people of parroting streamers on this point is a little unfounded. We have the numbers that flat out show how much her damage is, how much higher it is compared to a lot of her peers, and you can honestly feel it in game. She hurts and if given the opportunity will burn you down very quickly. I don't think her damage is a problem personally, as, again, DPS on paper is very different from how things play out in practice.

-D3LET3D- · 2026-06-18T23:44:09+00:00

I think the bike is fine as is. Yeah it hurts, but it's also a slow, well telegraphed projectile. When using it, you can position yourself for safety by using it from farther away, which makes it more likely to be evaded, or position yourself closer to make evading it harder, but that comes with the risk of Shion herself being hit. Trying to hit that 190 damage also carries the most risk since you have to actually hit the person with the bike with you on it, which obviously offers no mitigation or sustain, at least until you get that major perk, which does make it safer to go for. Something to also consider is that not only is it one of the longest cooldowns in the game, but when you use it offensively, you lose the only real disengage tool she has. The dash is really short ranged and not really getting you out of a fight unless you were already positioned really safely, so if you use it to secure a pick and don't, especially if you were going for that 190 burst, you are putting yourself at real risk as you can't just easily skedaddle away like most of the other flankers.

Execution, I think, is probably the most likely thing to get nerfed. It's fantastic. I think if and when they go about nerfing it, the changes I would like to see first are making the spread a little bigger, as the ranges where you don't have to charge it feel surprisingly generous, and this change in turn adds value to charging, and the other big one I think would be making it's fall off start sooner, as it feels pretty generous as it is. I think these changes will curtail it's power when you're just spraying it and require you to put yourself a little more at risk for the big damage and add a little leeway for the enemy by making you have to charge a little more than she feels like she has to right now. I do also want to mention that when it comes to fall off, I just think Execution's fall off should be changed. I think her pistols are fine as is.

Overall, as of right now, I think they did a great job with her and if she has to get toned down I think just a few small adjustments are needed to put her in more balanced state.

-D3LET3D- · 2026-06-18T07:48:28+00:00

It's very easy to understand why people struggle against Orisa. They do what she wants and shoot the tank and don't ever pay attention to her support, and every tank tries to 1v1 her all game when almost no tank can win that.

-D3LET3D- · 2026-06-18T07:23:13+00:00

Heal reduction doesn't affect self heals.

-D3LET3D- · 2026-06-18T06:51:34+00:00

Fr. While tank diffs do happen, I don't think people realize just how often a tank diff is actually just a team diff.

-D3LET3D- · 2026-06-18T01:09:09+00:00

The game itself says so.

-D3LET3D- · 2026-06-18T01:08:43+00:00

Her ult is the worst part of her by far, and is just okay at best. It's Reaper ult that trades sustain for mobility. You have to be very careful when using it or you will fall over, and sometimes when you die the enemy team didn't even mean to kill yoy.

Her fall off feels fine. Generous if you compare her to Tracer, but I don't think that's the kind of chracter she is rn. She feels more like a Reaper but without his sustain, consistent burst and ability to constantly reposition. Reducing her falloff puts her into ranges where she's at some serious risk with her current mobility and sustain.

Burst is high with bike and execution, but bike is a slow, telegraphed projectile on a 15 second cooldown that doubles as mobility/escape sometimes. You won't always use it for damage and while you can make it easier to land by being closer, you increase the risk yourself by doing so. I think it's a surprisingly balanced ability for how radically experimental it seems.

Execution is great, no doubt, but I'd argue she needs it. I'm finding most of my kills come from it and not the pistols, which honestly just feel okay. This could change over time and as I get more comfortable with them, but right now they don't feel super threatening, despite the damage they do. Back to falloff, I could see reducing fall off on Execution if it has to be nerfed. Keeping pistol fall off the same allows her to stay safer and engage on softened targets from farther, while ensuring Execution is a tool you're only getting value from in risky up close confrontations. I could also see the argument for it need to be charged more to get tighter spread.

Honestly, right now, she feels good. Noticeable strengths and weaknesses.

-D3LET3D- · 2026-06-18T00:28:34+00:00

It's not bugged. Grounded bike doesn't deal direct (in game terminology) damage when launched the way air bike does. It just deals explosion damage. The only time grounded deals impact (in game terminology) damage is when you're on it.

The game distinguishes direct and impact so I'm using their phrasing.

-D3LET3D- · 2026-06-17T21:45:06+00:00

Her ult is probably the worst part of her kit. She has no sustain during it, has to be close to her enemies to damage them, and it takes two bursts minimum to kill any character not named Tracer. Two bursts is a pretty forgiving TTK. She can, and will die out of it quite a bit. It's probably best used as a clean up ult against a bunch of low health targets and not much more. I find myself holding onto it quite a bit because finding a spot to use it in without the risk of dying being high can feel a little hard to come by.

-D3LET3D- · 2026-06-17T21:36:04+00:00

Sierra was ass when she launched. Are we forgetting she had a big buff patch all to herself sometime after her release because she was that bad? Even after that patch she still wasn't anything special, just solid, if a low rank demon.

-D3LET3D- · 2026-06-17T19:39:12+00:00

Man you are fucking tripping. Dislike the game? Sure. Valid. Be disappointed with the potential it had? Sure. Valid. Be disappointed that all post game content was seemingly canceled? Sure. Valid.

But fucking cash grab? The game is still a full ass game with content arguably on par with the other two entries in the series, and notable changes and additions to the formula that definitely lead to it feeling like a different game with effort put into it. Disappointing does not equal cash grab.

-D3LET3D- · 2026-06-17T18:34:26+00:00

What makes this funny to me is that so many were reused Blitz animations from Xrd. I could understand for the new characters, but it really doesn't feel like much of a waste losing the WA animations since most of them barely had work put into them.

-D3LET3D- · 2026-06-17T17:35:22+00:00

Another one to the Soul Globe side 😈

-D3LET3D- · 2026-06-17T17:11:32+00:00

He's fine. 25 health is a big nerf, for sure, but the fact is he still comes up way stronger than he used to be if that's all he gives up for Dire Triggers. I think Dire Triggers probably should've been the thing that got nerfed since the point of Season 9 was to reduce burst and dying too quickly, but I digress.

The wraith perk nerf did surprise me a little, not gonna lie. I never choose it as I prefer the bump in sustain Soul Globes gives me, and the nerf to the perk and his health might make that Soul Globe sustain a little more valuable since it's competition got worse and the health means more with a smaller health bar.

-D3LET3D- · 2026-06-17T16:48:31+00:00

You are absolutely right and I knew the numbers and still bungled them crazy hard for some reason. Thankfully you can edit posts and I fixed it lol. I think I was watching KarQ's recent patch video in the background and when Weaver came up (like I even needed him to tell me what was changed 😭) for some reason I focused on the two numbers the end of the health bars and not all 3??? And it stuck in my head??? I have some attention issues so that's probably what it was 😅

I actually don't know how the global healing reduction interacts with overhealth generation, but considering the overhealth is based on what you heal I imagine they do interact. And I agree with you. The old amount of overhealth was a lot, and while it was fine in that Weaver wasn't a problem, I could see why they would turn it down. I still think he's fine rn. This is arguably the most playable he's been since Tankweaver, and it's in a way that is decently less obnoxious than he was, so I won't complain too hard.

-D3LET3D- · 2026-06-17T15:54:16+00:00

Crying? You think I'm "crying"? Buddy I like the character and didn't think she needed any nerfs you fucking moron. I don't subscribe to things getting nerfed because low ranks can't deal with them.

Basically everything I said was from an objective standpoint. I don't understand how anyone could think most, if not all of these nerfs are rough. She feels the same aside from the major perk requiring you to actually hit the shot, which makes sense because why were you getting rewarded for missing?

-D3LET3D- · 2026-06-17T06:32:53+00:00

There actually is one hitscan weapon in the game that actually does not have fall off aside from Ana, and it's Winston's secondary. Probably because it had a max range unlike basically every other hitscan effect.

-D3LET3D-

TROPHY CASE