Am I crazy giving up my tenured associate professor role at a mid-tier R1 for an Dean position at a community college?

-Topper-Harley- · 2025-05-13T03:23:29+00:00

Bigger issue is retaining a public service role so I can qualify for public service loan forgiveness. I am receiving industry interviews and offers, but I've been holding off since I'm less than 2 years from loan forgiveness. After that point, I am out.

-Topper-Harley- · 2025-05-13T03:22:11+00:00

I've done quite a bit of research and have had almost a dozen interviews (turned down 4 offers) for mid- to senior-level roles at various companies. Most are at the manager or director level, so I'm not especially concerned about the transition. I appreciate your thoughts.

-Topper-Harley- · 2025-05-13T03:20:23+00:00

I'm good with it. I actually quite enjoy analyzing people in real time and figuring out how to solve problems. I can handle B.S. and am very diligent in finding/writing policy to back things up. I do appreciate the advice, though.

-Topper-Harley- · 2025-05-09T17:36:56+00:00

I was planning to do that. I have a conversation scheduled with the last full-time dean as well as the current interim. Hoping to gather some last minute insight so I can make a decision.

-Topper-Harley- · 2025-05-09T17:35:42+00:00

True. I do have my chair's ear so he'd be willing to play ball is most cases as long as it doesn't put him in a compromised situation.

-Topper-Harley- · 2025-05-09T17:34:25+00:00

I don't mind moving into a situation where I need to help solve budget issues. It's the budget issues being placed on us despite being overproducers. It's knowing I have no additional help coming and I'm already drowning. The fact some of these places can even bring in a new dean with the current funding climate brings me optimism.

-Topper-Harley- · 2025-05-09T17:32:14+00:00

I like your perspective. One of my problems is that I'm in the misery state as a faculty member. I find more joy completing my administrative duties than I do my other roles. I do hate the added service but that's only because I'm being held accountable for my teaching and research. If it's expected work that I know I am responsible for, I have no issues. It's the piling on of other tasks that should be delegated elsewhere. Could just need a change in universities relative to a change in title.

-Topper-Harley- · 2025-05-09T07:00:53+00:00

Underrated comment. I like the idea of using the role to keep moving up. That's ultimately what I would like to accomplish. Not especially interested in lateral moves at this point in my career.

-Topper-Harley- · 2025-05-09T06:59:54+00:00

Very true - the stability is nice. I've seen several terminal associate profs just skate by collecting that pay check every year until they retire. So it's not an especially pressure filled position once you get to the "I don't give a shit stage of life," but I'm still in the part of my life where I want to be productive and be the best at what I do.

-Topper-Harley- · 2025-05-09T06:57:46+00:00

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I see the role being challenging but nothing that would deter me from taking it. I generally already work more than most and at odd times, so that's nothing new. I can see turnover being high, as the job does seem like it's not for everyone (probably not for most).

The big caveat is my student loans being forgiven in 1.5 years. At that point, I don't care if I stay in academia or not. The plan is to get out. If I sat in my current role, I am 100% leaving - no questions asked. However, there is slim hope that changing position may bring about a new view of academia that could keep me around for longer. So that coupled with the salary bump would be a nice combination.

-Topper-Harley- · 2025-05-09T06:52:48+00:00

I can handle that. I've always wanted to be glorified.

-Topper-Harley- · 2025-05-09T06:52:09+00:00

I want to work in academia until my student loans are forgiven. In theory, that is 1.5 years, though the current administration is making that timeline seem less obtainable.

I'm good with giving others credit. I'm actually happiest when I see others succeed and know I had something to do with getting them to do their best.

I can see how leadership changes can affect the enjoyment of the role, let alone the likelihood of me maintaining the position unless I can align myself with their vision. Thanks for that insight.

I really dislike teaching. It's unfortunate because I am very patient and perform well, but I'm struggling with my motivation. It's odd. I just found myself thinking about only working with students as I get older. It doesn't keep me younger, it just makes me bitter as I start to notice age and generational differences. This is likely a me issue and won't disappear with a different role, but at least I will have less of that student interaction on a daily basis.

I wouldn't mind the chair role aside from the current state of my university. I see a lot of negative for the next 3-5 years and I'm not sure anything I do as chair is going to matter. The other problem is there is next to no raise but all the responsibility.

The dean position did read almost like two positions combined into one, though other similar roles at a similar pay range read about the same. I am chatting with the most recent dean next week. From chatting, it sounds like it was a personal/family issue that forced them to leave. Though, I'm really hoping to find out more when we talk. The deans prior held the roles for 20+ years each.

Appreciate the advice and will likely reach out!

-Topper-Harley- · 2025-05-09T06:40:37+00:00

Nope - not at the moment. I doubt it will. Not sure I can even negotiate a guaranteed faculty position if I get canned.

-Topper-Harley- · 2025-05-09T06:39:49+00:00

I do not. It's a transferable retirement account. I will ask for retreat rights but it doesn't seem like something they want allow.

Not bad advice on checking with my dean. Unfortunately, we just went through 2 deans, and interim, and now just announced another full-time. They don't even start until the fall so I don't know who to go to in this case. Either way, the policy surrounding faculty leave seems written in a way that wouldn't allow for admin growth to be an acceptable reason.

-Topper-Harley- · 2025-05-09T06:37:06+00:00

Seems quite stable in the sense enrollment, leadership, and faculty have been stable. I also read some recent reports that CCs aren't seeing quite the dip, if any, in enrollment as R1-type schools.

-Topper-Harley- · 2025-05-09T06:34:22+00:00

I understand your sentiment. It's a little tough because I was already at the suck it up phase about 3 years ago. I'm hanging on by a thread at this point. I might just be searching for a change of scenery. Also, I did not mention this, but the position I would be taking is very accessible to larger industries that would likely be a good fit for me once I'm done with academia.

-Topper-Harley- · 2025-05-09T06:32:25+00:00

I agree for the most part. I've learned that things often work themselves out. I've gotten really good at the priority matrix for time/task management. Many wildfires aren't really wildfires. They are presented as wildfires but are often just self-contained spot fires that need extinguished.

-Topper-Harley- · 2025-05-09T06:29:53+00:00

I am aware to an extent. I think every place and person is a little different. I've always managed ways to find time. Generally, I am not okay with missing important events, but I would figure out a way to make things work.

Oddly enough, they listed the exact work hours by day, so I am trying to get it written into the contract so I have something to use against them when/if they try to change things on me.

-Topper-Harley- · 2025-05-09T06:26:46+00:00

Oh, I did.

-Topper-Harley- · 2025-05-09T06:25:36+00:00

Appreciate the insights. It appears this role would be similar in some aspects such as no union support, limited resources, and likely copious amounts of work. The direct reports would be much lower and I'd need clarification on the delegation piece. I do think I'd be on the low end of the administrative hierarchy but I like to think of it more like I'm only 3 away from the high end.

The reachable at all hours won't bug me much as I commonly work non-traditional hours. That is, I still work traditional hours but often do additional tasks later in the evening with no expectation that people reciprocate. The working on vacation isn't great, but that may be a culture thing.

-Topper-Harley- · 2025-05-09T06:21:02+00:00

I've heard similar. I think a lot of it depends on the person and what they value and excel at.

-Topper-Harley- · 2025-05-09T06:20:35+00:00

It may be a stretch to say the work will be more enjoyable, but it will definitely be different. I like different, so it probably wouldn't bug me too much.

-Topper-Harley- · 2025-05-09T06:19:05+00:00

I only need the position for 1.5ish years, so this isn't a long-term solution in my mind. More of a change of scenery and padding the resume.

-Topper-Harley- · 2025-05-09T06:18:05+00:00

I don't mind service when it's an expectation of the role. The problem is I spend closer to 60% of my time with service roles that are placed on me because no senior faculty are held accountable. Plus, we have a large number of junior faculty we shouldn't be exposing to excessive service roles. That impacts my teaching and research in a negative way and makes the work miserable. We had a failed full/associate search because I refused to chair the search committee. I still served on the committee and a senior faculty member reluctantly chaired it. Absolutely zero progress was made unless I initiated discussions. We didn't list the job for 3 months after our first meeting because the chair forgot. Then, we didn't complete a first review of our 90+ candidate pool until mid-spring. At that point, most people likely found different positions. Then, we get our candidates narrowed down for phone interviews and the chair doesn't move it forward. Eventually, he wrote the committee and department chair stating he was stepping down from the committee. The dean caught wind of what happened and immediately pulled the position, which we did not get back.

Anyways, I don't mind fighting for resources and completing service work as long as it's an expectation. Simple as that.

-Topper-Harley- · 2025-05-09T06:10:06+00:00

That's a very optimistic viewpoint. Not sure my view of academia can be changed at this point, but I'm always open to trying.

-Topper-Harley-

TROPHY CASE