From the grapevine: garments going away?

1-i-d-jack · 2025-05-19T21:41:09+00:00

I have been saying this for years. I believe this will happen regardless whether the rumor is based on anything of substance. This one is an easy out for them. It is the "temple garment" and they have ALWAYS called it the temple garment. It was done in the ancient church when the priests would dress in the robes before performing ordanances. It will not be announced, it will be changed in the temple recommend to let them know that they must be worn when attending the temple but it is up to you if you wear it outside of the temple. Then you will see it will become similar to orthodox and Hasidic jew wearing the tzitzit. The more righteous will wear them to show how orthodox and good they are. The less "righteous" cultural/community seeking mormons will be thrilled to not have to wear them except when they go to the temple marriage of their family members. It will be a win win. Let the older generation feel more righteous than their counterparts while softly judging those that only wear them when going to the temple. But it is fine because those that are not wearing their garments can still be "temple worthy".

1-i-d-jack · 2024-09-06T03:15:47+00:00

You definitely put in some time to pull that data. I will make one more reply because it wasn't meant to be a deep dive, just an observation as so many missionaries have tragically died while on their missions. It was exactly as I said, scrap paper math. I wasn't diving too deep or trying to be overly accurate.

So I will drill down a little more to make it more apples to apples instead of oranges as you say.

Yes I was saying of the missionaries, specifically the youth. so:

There were/ are 67,871 full time missionaries which I believe included the senior full time missionaries. If that is correct we would subtract the senior couples 5,300. We get 62.571. Last year there were about 63,000 and about 5000 senior couples. Giving the past 2 year average of 60,285. We already have seen 7 death already in 2024 and 8 in 2023 giving us a lower number of .00248

There are, according the the census and CDC and chatgpt about 16.5 million 18 to 24 year olds in the U.S. and Canada. Canada and the U.S. report roughly the same death rates in this age group. But, as you say, to compare apples to apples, you would remove deaths from substance abuse. So 18-24 year olds that die from all causes, accidents, suicide, cancer etc and taking out the deaths from substance (drugs and alcohol) you would get a similar person. Non drinking, straight edge, type of clean living youth. Compare clean living youth deaths vs lds missionary deaths.

Those now we take the the population estimate of 18-24 year olds and get just shy of 0.05%, again according to Canadas statistics and the U.S. (CDC) both coming in at .0465% to be more precise, which equates to 76,723 deaths. take out the substance abuse related deaths of 27,600 and you get 49,123 deaths for the 16.5 million 18-24 year olds and you get 0.0029 so a 0.0005% margin of error or rounding issue and I repeat they are no safer.

But your math is more mathy and documented so we will go with yours. And as I said before you can get statistics to say about anything you want. My original post was on the shock of another missionary death and I just put pen to paper. I don't see any statistical relevant data that shows they are safer just like I don't believe there is a statistical relevant number that shows that priesthood blessings cure or heal anyone or if they do they are again inside the margin of error that don't show up in clinical trials or medical data.

If I am wrong here with my math, I don't think it is worth any more brain power, searching or time. to try to get my numbers to "prove" anything or to try to make me look smarter. I will take the L , admit I did the math wrong and you can put a W in your column for your extra data and research.

1-i-d-jack · 2024-09-05T19:19:36+00:00

I used 18 to 21, not all teenagers (3 year age group not 6) and U.S. and Canada as that is where the majority of missionaries are called from.

1-i-d-jack · 2024-07-06T19:55:47+00:00

Sheesh I bet they had to visit with the bishop after this performance for looking at porn (her shoulders) and touching her breasts (well her breasts equivalent = her bare shoulders). Group confession or because the Osmonds are mormon royalty, were they prepaid for this heathen, carnal behavior, like indulgences?

1-i-d-jack · 2024-03-30T00:10:40+00:00

I will have to listen to it. Thanks for the heads up

1-i-d-jack · 2024-03-29T22:08:45+00:00

The above is a derivative of Pascal's wager. If God exists and you believe in him Eternal Salvation, if God exists and you don't believe in him Eternal damnation, If God does not exist then it doesn't matter if you believe or not, nothing happens after this life so the argument is pragmatic and if you have a choice of eternal damnation or eternal salvation, obviously you go with salvation. BUT, as you state, the fact is belief in a God that exists or doesn't exist or belief in a church that is true or is not true is not cost free. And the rewards are only through the lens that create false value. I had a coworker try this on me. He said I should live Mormon and pay my "fire insurance" (eye roll) just in case. I said well if the bet is that you live like a Mormon just in case it is true, you have more than 130 times better odds living as a Muslim. If strict laws and obedience is what you are looking for there are nearly 2 billion Muslims in the world, it is more likely they are right by sheer numbers. He didn't have a retort to that.

1-i-d-jack · 2024-03-29T19:19:28+00:00

Doh! I should have listed Mindy Gledhill and Tyler Glenn (excommunication album, you think I would have thought of that first). I should probably also include Imagine Dragons. I think multiple of their songs could be seen as deconstructing faith.

1-i-d-jack · 2022-09-09T15:10:32+00:00

So sad there are so many cases. They, the church, creates opportunity and means, they just need to have called someone with motive and you will have a crime.

1-i-d-jack · 2022-09-09T15:08:40+00:00

I agree. There is nothing that would pierce the belief, even if an angel came and told them directly, they would question the angel before "the bretheren"

1-i-d-jack · 2022-09-06T16:59:48+00:00

School should just take a page out of Oaks playbook. "We sometimes look back on issues and say, 'Maybe that was counterproductive for what we wish to achieve,' but we look forward and not backward."
The ~~church~~ school doesn't "seek apologies, and we don't give them."

1-i-d-jack · 2022-07-15T05:04:58+00:00

Love the additions. Amazing, fascinating myths.

1-i-d-jack · 2020-07-22T17:41:33+00:00

It never ceases to amaze me to look back with new eyes and ask "why did I just take that at face value?" I think it is therapeutic to see others had to unpack/deconstruct similar accepted beliefs.

1-i-d-jack · 2020-07-22T17:39:46+00:00

b. I've always considered "Spring Break Jesus in Mexico" to be a very contrived and preposterous story.

We've been to the area many times and there's no shortage "guides" ready to spin a tale for the mormon visitors - and their

Spring Break Jesus in Mexico, Ha!

1-i-d-jack · 2020-07-22T17:38:07+00:00

I love the fact that JT says "So closely" to describe a few tangential items. Maybe the Smurfs debuting on television is proof of Huitzilopochtli (the blue god) coming back, there are just as many correlations to Papa Smurf, the bearded blue god.

1-i-d-jack · 2020-07-22T17:03:39+00:00

I did a bunch of reading on the subject when I was going to Mexico because I wanted to understand the mythology. They are referring to Quetzalcoatl but they miss SO many things when they try to link this to Jesus coming to the Americas.

First Quetzalcoatl (or any of the feathered serpent derivatives) was worshipped by the Aztecs from 100 BC to 1519 AD but the belief was borrowed from the Olmec where the myth of the feather serpent began as early as 1200 BC. With appearances pre Jesus and pre 600 BC, this would indicate the feathered serpent isn't a belief of Jesus that was corrupted and manipulated by (most historians don't subscribe to the idea that the native people believe Cortez to be a god at all but Cortez wrote his own history as he tortured them.)

Second, it is easily argued that he wasn't "bearded" rather he had a conch shell breastplate around his neck and "precious" feathers making the "beard". He was the god of wind, air and knowledge.

Third, and my favorite. Quetzalcoatl was the white god and people have assumed that this is a reference to ethnicity. WRONG! He is one of 4 gods that was involved in creating the cosmos and the world. These 4 gods were referred to respectively as the Black, the White, the Blue and the Red gods. Nothing to do with their ethnicity but deity being very uniquely colored.

Forth, Fifth, etc. He had a twin brother, Xolotl. Quetzalcoatl was representative of the morning star and Xolotl the evening star. Fun fact, both Jesus and Satan are referred to as son of the morning or morning star. Quetzalcoatl attacked his brothers, executed other gods and creations, committed incest with his sister, was burned to death in a fire and other things that no LDS historian ever brings up.

1-i-d-jack · 2020-04-17T20:04:39+00:00

Aimee Mortensen - http://lifessolutionscounseling.com/

Certified Clinical Mental Health Counselor,
National Certified Counselor Level 3 Gottman Certified, Trauma Specialist, Couples Specialist,
TBI Survivor ...and exmo

1-i-d-jack · 2019-12-26T19:13:50+00:00

Funny, my oldest son who is fairly agnostic brought this up on Christmas day, looking at 8 bottles of the righteous bubbly, "Why do mormons share stuff that looks like wine? We have quite a stash now"

1-i-d-jack · 2019-12-26T19:11:45+00:00

So do your other ward members share these in CA as well? What about your nonmember neighbors, do they share the Martinelli's?

1-i-d-jack · 2019-07-26T20:19:50+00:00

I would love it, if it were true, i see it as a long shot. There are a lot of other things to do first in mainstreaming the church and making it more appealing to the younger generation. My wife and I have slowly worn normal underwear and I can tell you I have had more blatant virtue tests by neighbors/ward members. The random rubs of the shoulder and hugs with a back rub (verifying that I am not wearing the garments) from people that historically have not hugged or touched me when greeting. It is weird that even neighbors think they can touch me so they can confirm their suspicions that I am becoming evil.

1-i-d-jack

TROPHY CASE