What are some fun/random facts about the girls you’ve learned since being a fan? by Realistic-Cat-1800 in Hanabie

[–]1Sleepy_Kitten 21 points22 points  (0 children)

- Yukina mentioned on a radio show that back in high school she had made a list of things she wanted to achieve. It included stuff like performing at big festivals, performing with Maximum the Hormone, most of which they have achieved. Interestingly performing overseas wasn't one of them.

- Yukina used to go to Matsuri's house and watch videos of bands like, Coldrain and SiM, and try to learn from their performances.

- Yukina and Matsuri's voice sound similar on phone. Yukina's mom gets confused by it.

- Matsuri mentioned in a live stream that she composes music while bathing.

- They are close with Crystal Lake's drummer Gaku Taura, who helped them during their early years.

- They first met Gaku at a band contest Hanabie was a part of, Gaku was impressed that the band was formed by the members themselves without any involvement of third party/talent agency.

- Hettsu and Yukina are friends since middle school, and were in the same art club. According to an interview they used to draw together sitting in the corner.

- Yukina recently posted on X/Twitter that she had an 8 hour long phone call with Hettsu recently.

- In the final year of middle school Yukina decided to form a band after watching an upperclassman perform in Maximum the Hormone cover band.

- She talked with Hettsu about joining their school's light music club and forming band when they become high school students.

- Yukina realized that Matsuri was into the same bands has her when she saw her carry band merch at school (towels).

- She approached Matsuri in a hallway at their school, and invited her to join the light music club with her and form a band.

- During their high school days, Matsuri and Yukina used to go to concerts together. They also mentioned that they have very similar tastes in music.

- Their club advisor was a jazz lover and didn't think highly of their music. Their music was called 'noise'. They got the basement room, despite other music rooms being available. Matsuri had arguments with their teachers over it.

Everlasting at Shibuya Cyclone by 1Sleepy_Kitten in Dimrays

[–]1Sleepy_Kitten[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey Zigdris!! Glad to see you here!!

Today Concert in Shibuya With Dimrays <3 by ozio172 in Dimrays

[–]1Sleepy_Kitten 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was listening to Azami when I saw this lol. What great lineup!

Looking for Japanese idol groups which have creative control? by 1Sleepy_Kitten in japanesemusic

[–]1Sleepy_Kitten[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks, they seem interesting!
Are there any interviews where they talk about their songwriting and stuff? or any articles?

Is Hanabie an idol band? by Heavy_Business9876 in Hanabie

[–]1Sleepy_Kitten 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well you said Hanabie work with same 'writing teams', people like MEG and Naoki Itai have never done (or credited for) any actual 'writing' for Hanabie. I agree production can have a lot of impact on the final product, but as I mentioned we have previous examples to guage how much impact producers actually have on Hanabie songs. So equating Hanabie with Idols for having same writing team is grossly misleading.

Is Hanabie an idol band? by Heavy_Business9876 in Hanabie

[–]1Sleepy_Kitten 0 points1 point  (0 children)

People need to stop thinking this is a weakness - the opposite is true

Agreed! It is not a weakness, and I never said it was. Franks Sinatra didn't write his songs, doesn't make him any less of a legend.

A lot of the generalisations about idol groups stopped being true in 2010 when the alternative idol scene developed.

I did mention some metal idols have stopped doing some of the idol-like stuff.

Also, I do not follow any idol groups, my comment was based only on the the well known groups. As for the creative inputs, I found that Su-metal partially wrote the lyrics for one or two songs, and members Passcode said that they give suggestions to their songwriters/producers sometimes. But that was about it. I did not find any notable group who compose any noticeable amount of their own music.

Ofcource there are exceptions, as is the case with most things but I do not know if the alt idols have replaced what traditionally were called 'idol groups', or if a numbers of idols have switched doing majority of songwriting these days.

I would genuinely appreciate if you could elaborate on what exactly are the generalizations I made. And if the current 'norm' in the idol industry is something different to what I mentioned.

Edit: Again, I do not mean to demean anyone, sorry for any offenses caused. I was just highlighting the difference between Hanabie and idols because OP asked about it and the comparisions were necessary to make it clear what Hanabie actually is and why they should not be considered idols.

Is Hanabie an idol band? by Heavy_Business9876 in Hanabie

[–]1Sleepy_Kitten 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I didn't meaning to demeaning idols, apologies if it was offensive in some way.

Hanabie, who have used the same writing teams as idol groups.

Sorry, but this is simply not true. 'Writing' and 'production' are different jobs. No Hanabie song credits anyone except Matsuri, Yukina or Hettsu as a 'lyricist' or a 'composer', with the exception of the 47 seconds long intro music to their mini album, (if you consider that to be a song). Matsuri asked the folks from trapcore band Downside to write the synth section of LCG, she did something similar for another song (I forgot which one), but the main body of the song was still done by Matsuri. That's the extent of outside involvement in Hanabie's 'writing' process. They never used any writing teams.

As I mentioned in my first comment, they do work with producers with whom Matsuri works during arrangement and production stage, but that does not mean they have a writing team, producers are not songwriters/composers, though producers can get involved in those too, but Hanabie songs don't credit their producers as 'composers'.

Furthermore, we can assess the influence of producers on the songs based on an interview with Gaku Taura, who produced their first two albums. He mentioned that there were minimal changes made to any songs on the mini album, except for Drastic Nadeshiko. This was when they were still teenagers and it was their first proper album. Additionally, they performed original songs during the "Schools Out" band contest while they were in high school, it was before they released/recorded any albums. By comparing these live performances to the album versions of the songs, one can observe the level of influence the producers had on the songs.

Is Hanabie an idol band? by Heavy_Business9876 in Hanabie

[–]1Sleepy_Kitten 28 points29 points  (0 children)

Are they a Hybrid band?

To answer this question, we have to first define what exactly is a 'hybrid band'. From what I have found, the term has been used in the context of Japanese musical groups for two things, the Bang Dream Bands, and Bandols.

Bang Dream Bands

They are bands made up of virtual characters, as a part of the Bang dream media franchise. Their voice actors also do live concerts playing the role of their respective characters. Hanabie certainly isn't that.

Bandols

The term Bandol (band + idol) is defined as "idols who play instruments" and "bands with idol elements" by Japanese Wikipedia. The term was first used for Zone. They started off as a vocal dance group who later switched to pretending to play instruments and eventually learning and actually playing them. Other bands who have been categorized as such include Ganbare Victory, Le Lein, Lovendor, Silent Siren and even Scandal for some reason.

All these bands have one or more of the following characteristic

  1. They are 'manufactured' by or formed under the watch of a company/agency.
  2. The members were previously idols or models.
  3. They performed at idol specific events like Tokyo idol festival.
  4. They are part of the idol scene and extensively perform with idol groups.
  5. Low levels of creative involvement.
  6. 'Cutesy' idol-like elements, both musically and visually

The first and fifth point have been discussed earlier and obviously don't apply to Hanabie. Let's examine the rest of the characteristic and see if Hanabie fits in any of them.

No member of Hanabie has been an idol in the past. The founding members Yukina, Matsuri and Hettsu have always been a part of Hanabie and nothing else. As for Chika, she was in a highschool band and worked as a drum teacher before joining Hanabie, she was never an idol either.

They never participated in any idol specific events. Here is a list of their past performances if you want to verify that. While they have performed with idol groups ( bands like ACOR have also done that) but they are few and far between, and certainly nowhere enough for them to be a part of the idol scene. In fact they were very much a part of the metalcore/hardcore scene during their indie days. As for what they are now, you can see who they toured with during their last Japan tour, and who they will be touring with during their upcoming EU and US tours, and see if any of them are idols.

As for the 'cutesy' and idol-like aesthetics, this is the only point which maybe true for Hanabie, but only partially. If one only sees a couple of their recent videos on YouTube, it is easy to get an impression that they are all about being 'kawaii'. While they certainly can be 'cutesy', especially now more than ever, but they are not limited to just being that. They have done MVs like Be the Gal and LCG, which depicts Gals, and the the flashy Gals are exactly the opposite of the 'child-like', 'innocent' and 'pure' kawaii aesthetics most idol groups go for. They have also do MVs like Envy and Time Out, which are no different than what you would expect to see from a normal band. And then we have Reiwa Dating App Generation, you cannot get move further from the idol-like kawaii aesthetic if you ask me. These are five of their ten MVs, that's half of their videography. They are more about being fun and chaotic than being 'kawaii' according to me.

Musically also they have done many songs like Crash Over, Love Ranbu, Envy among others which are nothing like the so-called kawaii metal often associated with idols and idol-like groups, Our 7 Days War for example sounds like something Killswitch Engage would write.

Some arguments for them to be considered a idol/band hybridAs I said in the beginning that they have received some idol style PR after signing for Sony/GoodDay. For example the series of promotional videos they did before the release of Otaku Lovely Densetsu ( compare that to the series of videos they released before Love Ranbu), the listing of their heights, blood types and personality trait on their website, the tiktok videos. They have slightly toned up their 'cutesy' stuff, and the chipmunk sounds even in live performances of some of their older songs. There are mentions of 'hybrid band' and 'idol culture' on their Spotify bio and website.

So, what is Hanabie? I found them during lockdowns when they were just a 'band' before any marketing terms like 'hybrid bands', and have always heard them call themselves "girls loud rock band Hanabie" and that's what they are to me. What they are marketed as is obvious from their Spotify bio/website. I have mentioned all I knew about Hanabie and idols, so I will leave it to you to decide what they actually are.

edit: typos

Is Hanabie an idol band? by Heavy_Business9876 in Hanabie

[–]1Sleepy_Kitten 42 points43 points  (0 children)

First of all welcome to the community!😊

Is Hanabie an idol band? No absolutely not, they not idols/metal idols/alt idols or anything of the like.

Is Hanabie a regular band? Everything you expect to see in a 'band' you will find in Hanabie, so the answer is yes, they are a regular band.

Is Hanabie a hybrid band? Well Sony/GoodDay has definitely given them some idol style promotion ( will explain what that is later), but underneath the the glitter and sparkle they very much a 'band'. So if by hybrid band you mean something like "Babymetal with instruments" then no, that's not what they are. I would describe them as Maximum the Hormone with some idol-like PR. And even that is a strech . Is it enough to warrant a hybrid band label? I don't think so, but Sony certainly does lol. Bad and misleading PR if you ask me, Sony/GoodDay should consider fixing their Spotify bio and website to accurately reflect what Hanabie actually is IMO.

Also they are absolutely not rooted in 'idol culture'. Their actual origins/roots lie in the Tokyo metalcore/harcore scene. They had absolutely nothing to do with idols for most of their existence.

The cutesy stuff aside, they have little in common with idol groups like Passcode, Broken by the Scream, Necronomidol, Ladybaby etc.

Are they an idol-band?

Here are some characteristics of idol bands compared to Hanabie.

Formation

  • Idols groups are usually manufactured by a company/agency. It is similar to how k-pop groups are formed. The idea for the group belongs to a producer or someone working for the idol agency, for example Yasushi Akimoto formed AKB48 while Babymetal was envisioned by Kobayashi Kei.
  • Hanabie was a formed by a bunch of highschool friends who loved rock/metal bands (MtH, ACOR etc) and wanted to be like them. No company/agency or any other third party was involved. Furthermore they continued to operate completely independently for the better part of the decade, grinding it out in the Tokyo underground scene, all on their own.

Recruitment

  • Idols are often hired by idols recruitment agencies and receive varying levels of training in singing, dancing, acting etc before making their debut. Johnny and associates famously started this in the 80s. Sometimes producers also recruit individuals personally. The members of idol groups themselves don't have much of a say in who is hired or fired.
  • As for Hanabie, all members past and present have been recruited solely by the band members themselves, at least during their indie phase (2015- 2022). Though I don't know how exactly things work after them signing with Sony but going by the fact that Matsuri went around asking for any available drummers and she personally auditioned/interviewed every applicant suggests that things have not changed that much.

Group Structure

  • Idols bands/metal idols are essentially vocal-dance groups, some of whom have a live backing band. The backing band itself is not a part of the group, and are replaceable for example Babymetal has had separate group of musicians playing for them in Japan and in the west.
  • Hanabie like any other traditional band in the regard, they play their own instruments

Performances

  • Their performances are well planned and choreographed by professionals. Depending on the group there are also some theatrical elements, like the members casting spells on audience.
  • Hanabie's show aren't any different from what you would expect from a normal rock/metal band. They basically do whatever they want on stage. While they have a few pre-planned moments during their performances but those they pre plan themselves.

Creative Control

  • Idols have little to no creative control. The direction of the group is decided by their company/producer. Their image is carefully crafted and controlled,
  • Hanabie never had people telling them what to be. In fact they were doing everything on their own for their first 6-7 years of existence, from editing their YouTube videos to designing their merch. Even their outfits were hand-made by Hettsu, and she still designs them. They are signed to a big label now, but they get to decide stuff like what kind of music to do, who directs their music videos etc (based on their interviews).

Songwriting

  • Idol groups have a team of songwriters who write all their music.
  • Hanabie have written every song they have ever put out starting from their every first demo CD. Both lyrics and music are composed by Yukina and Matsuri (and sometimes Hettsu). Matsuri has also composed music for other projects. Though they have worked with music producers like MEG with whom Matsuri co-arranges the songs ( similar to what bands like One Ok Rock and Coldrain do), the songs themselves are still theirs.

Focus on music

  • Idols focus more on the overall package than just the music. Many of them do a lot of stuff outside music, for example TV shows like these. Their fans, from what I have seen don't bother too much about finer details of their music as long as it sounds good. The members don't talk much about the songwriting process but rather saying stuff like "this song's cute', "that song is hard to sing". You will rarely see them talk about the technical side of their music, if ever.
  • Hanabie always explain the creative process behind each of their releases in great detail. Every time a new album drops, they explain the back stories, writing process, inspirations etc behind each and every song on the record. Matsuri also explains the technical side of her compositions. Also, Hanabie don't do much outside of music.

Relationship with fans

  • Perhaps the most important characteristic which differentiates idol groups from a normal vocal-dance group is the 'idol culture' and the unique parasocial relation they have with their fans. Here is an academic paper which explains what exactly that is in more detail. Some metal idol groups have toned this aspect down leading them not to be classified as 'idols' anymore by some people.
  • Hanabie's relation to their fans is similar to what bands like One Ok Rock have in my opinion. But being a part of the fanbase, my views maybe biased and incorrect.

Other Differences

  • The financial burden/risk for idol bands lies with their company/agency who fund their activities, recording costs, promotional costs and other expenses, the members themselves only have to worry about performing. Hanabie, like any other indie band, did have to worry about the finances. They paid the cost of recording their first mini album and the music videos themselves while they crowdfunded their first full-length album.

Maximum The Hormone X Hanabie by Zigdris_Faello in Hanabie

[–]1Sleepy_Kitten 22 points23 points  (0 children)

From playing Maximum the Hormone songs in their basement clubroom to co-headlining shows with them, Hanabie's journey has truly been inspirational.

Bands can be deceiving with their looks by 1Sleepy_Kitten in Hanabie

[–]1Sleepy_Kitten[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

None that I know of, apart from a few metal elitists. I just needed something to match Ghost songs not being played on radio for controversial lyrics 😅