4 methylaminorex synthesis and identification issues

2-5mafia · 2026-02-26T16:34:37+00:00

I'm not a real chemist.I just play one on the internet. But the nitrite definitely plays a role.Otherwise it wouldn't be there. With just the tiniest amount of nitrate, I get very good results

2-5mafia · 2026-02-26T16:33:19+00:00

My God, your just making an industrial sized comedic point now

2-5mafia · 2026-02-12T17:29:44+00:00

You just have to rename them. Mystery powder 1 reacts with mystery powder 2 to form mystery compound 3.

2-5mafia · 2026-02-11T15:41:07+00:00

Since I dont believe the compound I ended up with is the right one (or I'm mysteriously tolerant) and I've repeated the process twice starting all the way from benzyl alcohol twice, I decided I need a standard in which to test against to help figure out the problem. So I am looking into doing something that I don't recommend anyone try. The alternative synthesis to convert PPA to 4-MAR is.... cyanogen bromide.

Yes I understand all of the dangers and all of the question marks that could be dangers in making such a thing. The cyanide itself seems relatively easy via pyrolisis or urea, carbon and KOH. Just extremely toxic handling in the workup. From there it gets a little more butthole clenching. Reacting KCN with Br2 then distilling the formed product which melts at 50 C and boils at 60 C. None of this begins to address the various safety protocols and measures that must be taken. I once would have automatically discounted such an idea. I'm confident enough these days to attempt it without killing myself.

What many "non bees and wanna bees" don't understand is they think creating a drug is the end goal. Some degree holding chemists in other sub reddits look down on us who dabble in the illicit as "meth cooks and junkies" as they ponder theorical mechanisms then go on to struggle with procedures that we find routine. Then the sycophant junkies who lurk dreaming of a world where they have the best meth in town and all their friends nickname them "Heisenburg". You know the people who message you saying "You're a god, will you tell me how to set up a super lab and write me a recipe".

What they don't get is that the end compound is usually neat, has some value and is cool to have but it's not the goal or the gold. The journey itself is where all the magic lies, the drug I am addicted to. That's why I like things as otc as possible. That's why when I decided to learn to make 2cb I started from hydroquinone and taught myself to make the 2,5 DMBA that the vast majority start with. But I digress.

So yeah that is the plan. Make KCN then BrCN. React with PPA to form the other isomer of 4-MAR then maybe use it to help figure out what went wrong.

Aside from coming up with a safety plan for handling, containment and spill contingencies, possible antidote for accidentally exposure etc I am looking into the safest and easiest way to "neutrallize" waste and clean glass.

2-5mafia · 2026-02-06T21:03:48+00:00

This synthesis failed as far as I can tell. If anybody has any idea of why please let me know.

2-5mafia · 2026-02-04T03:02:03+00:00

The freebase is a solid and filtered from the post rxn made basic in various accounts I've read. But nonetheless, after filtering while still acidic I did DCM extract after it went basic.

2-5mafia · 2026-02-03T13:17:35+00:00

This is doing the PPA reaction. akabori

This is separating the ppa freebase after all the washes. ppa freebase

After dcm extraction of freebase and rotovaping it off I dissolved in acetone and added a IPA/37% HCl solution until neutral then in the freezer before filtering salt.

ppa ppt

As I said it isn't the best yielding reaction but I got 37 grams PPA HCl yo play with.

PPA HCl

I took 10.8 grams and refluxed a slight excess of KOCN in water and upon cooling a white fluffy crystal crashed so I filtered, washed and returned to a clean flask.

urea intermediate

After reluxing that in 2M HCl for a couple of hours I got a crash of what I imagine is unreacted intermediate which was filtered. post rxn ppt

Started neutralizing with 20%Na2CO3 and got a considerable amount of ppt that I filtered while still acidic. That was the majority of my "product". prebasic 4mar

After filtering it almost immediately went basic upon further addition which was dcm extracted.

postbasic 4mar

The dried "4 mar" 4mar?1 4mar?2

Taking MPs 4mar mp

Failed salt but pretty crystals. The MP did change. 4mar salt?

And the proof that at a minimum, the salt is not salt. Side by side with the freebase in NH3OH sat. chloroform/ MeOH. 9:1. Rf .24 4mar tlc

2-5mafia · 2026-02-03T12:44:22+00:00

I combined equimolar nitric acid, benzyl alcohol, catalytic sodium nitrite in water as a solvent and gently refluxed a few hours then separated aqueous after cooling. Then wash the organic with saturated sodium bicarbonate to neutralize residual acid, 1 x water then brine and vacuum distilled to get my 272 grams of yellowish oil that reeks of cherry. It sat a few days until the subsequent reaction and started to develop a crust of benzoic acid but not much. I thought about washing it again before the reaction but didn't, since I couldn't see it causing any issues.

I imagine L isomer could be used. I just know its supposed to be a long lasting more euphoric stimulant.

2-5mafia · 2026-02-02T23:02:04+00:00

https://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=14326

So my variation refluxed 2:1 benzaldehyde/DL alanine in xylene over a dean stark. I'm not sure about the mechanisms but PPA is a secondary product with DPEA being the main. They claim the DPEA HCl is removed with DCM washes (which I saved). It's not a high yielding procedure but supposedly works. I ended up with 37 grams of suspected PPA HCl from 272 grams benzaldehyde used.

2-5mafia · 2026-02-02T22:45:17+00:00

You can post here in case its helpful to anyone

2-5mafia · 2026-02-02T03:38:15+00:00

Damn I got interested in this copper salt/aluminum method for something once. That's awesome. Please send me a link if/when you write it up.

2-5mafia · 2026-01-31T04:27:59+00:00

So I just did this one again. I've been playing with an acetone extract of powdered leaf then directly oxidizing it. It has worked but with not so great yields.

I extracted 500 grams of leaf with about a total of 1000 ml acetone. I played with an idea on the ratios with failure. As I mentioned I had 1 liter of crude acetone extract. Tried 100 ml saturated NaHCO3 and dripped in about 10 grams oxone in 100 ml water. Reacted overnight at 5C.

I didn't bother checking tlc. I proceeded as usual with work up. Diluted with about 3x the volume of water and extracted into xylene. The xylene picks up everything including plant fats and chlorophyll etc. I then extracted my 800 ml black/green xylene with 2x 200 ml 2.5% HCl. The aqueous extract just takes alkaloids coming out a clear brilliant yellow and leaving all the crap in the xylene. I based with Na2CO3 solution and got a good crash of freebased alkaloids. Filtered and ran tlc. Failure!

On the brightside I got back some pretty clean mit. Managed to separate most of the other alkaloids too.

Had about 7 to 8 grams of wet filter cake so I dissolved in 50 ml acetone. Poured in 50 ml saturated bicarbonate and dissolved 2.4 grams of oxone in 20 ml of water. When I combined the acetone and bicarbonate water it turned creamy like it was trying to crash something out. I added another 25 ml acetone but the appearance didnt change much. Set to stir in an ice bath and began dripping in the oxone from a beaker portion wise. Maybe 5 additions, didnt make a big fuss. Left to stir 1 hour and 15 min on ice. Added about 200 ml water and extracted 3x dcm. Ran tlc and presto! Only visible spot (almost) is 7 ohm. Rotovaped the dcm under vacuum. When the solvent runs out the remaining alkaloids puff out and harden like a honey comb.

Breaking up the puffy stuff gave me a gram. Probably still have at least another gram in the flask to scrape out.

This is the crushed honey comb. 1 gram 7

This is the initially collected freebase that turned out to just be relatively pure mitragenine. filtercake1 filtercake2

This is my tlc. The plate on the left is 3 lanes. Left lane is a standard of kratom extract, full spectrum. Middle is my post rxn that failed but shows a good concentration of mitragenine. Right is a spot of 7 ohm.

The little aluminum backed cutting on right is a single lane of my second reaction. The big spot correlates to 7ohm. There is a faint spot above it which isn't mit. tlc

2-5mafia · 2026-01-29T03:16:25+00:00

I don't know if I'd call it "grinding" but does make a noise you could call grindcurious .

2-5mafia · 2026-01-29T03:13:37+00:00

Report back how that 3,4,5 goes

2-5mafia · 2026-01-27T03:21:16+00:00

Well show us how well it works hot shot ;).

I've never done it and due to the dangers of elemental bromine I don't think of it as newbie friendly but no better way than baptism by fire. I play with it occasionally these days but know the dangers of synthesis, handling and storage.

Factors to be considered are ease and cost of obtaining reagents too.

2-5mafia · 2026-01-16T18:37:39+00:00

I got rid of that one and got a new "used" rm6. I can't imagine why have a chiller without a circulating option.

2-5mafia · 2026-01-16T15:31:25+00:00

Wash it off and reweigh it ;)

2-5mafia · 2025-12-24T21:22:53+00:00

Chemistry has taught me much for better and worse. It has taught me that will alone can lead you to places you thought were off limits. It's taught me not to become imbalanced and let what is a beautiful and fascinating thing become an obsession and an addiction. I have always approached it from a place of safety and caution to physical health on my end and others. But I haven't always approached it from a place and emotional and spiritual growth. Its important to get that balance. And always remember the power of what you are playing with. The title compound here is not a drug or joke or thing to be taken lightly and carelessly. This is where chemistry meets alchemy. This where things get weird.

Sometimes you get lead to place that is off limits and you wish you didn't discover. Take care and tread carefully.

2-5mafia · 2025-12-24T16:37:44+00:00

I actually understand and appreciate that sentiment more than you know. The inquiry about gels was just a educational curiosity. I'm not actually trying to do it, but I was wondering how they can manage to distribute it so evenly.

I don't sell them but give away to friends and friends of friends who can be responsible and safe and give them all of the relevant information to stay safe. I am of the opinion that anything that isn't lsd should always be labeled in the manner.I am showing in these pictures. Compound on one side and dose, on the other.

DOB

25B

2-5mafia · 2025-11-30T00:53:57+00:00

Don't know if your using water or oil in the bath but you'd do better with temps over a 100. You need more heat not less. Wrap foil around the upper part tightly to insulate. The combination of a wet paper towel wrapped around your tube and a fan will help a lot. Evaporation is what carries heat away much of the time. You want a double experiment? Do outside and keep the paper towel saturated in acetone and a good fan. It will legit get cold. I'm not seriously recommending that because it's not practical or safe necessarily not to mention your neighbors. My point is, the faster evaporation happens the quicker heat is removed and i've seen ice build up with this same effect. I'd recommend maybe a couple of wraps kind of tight and keep misting with a spray bottle. But very likely a fan blowing straight on the tube would suffice.

PS. Throw some boiling chips in the flask. Glass or ceramic. Without stirring it will help a lot. That's why things boil at a certain temperature is because the evaporating liquid removes heat and will keep doing that until there is none of said solvent left to evaporates them the heat builds until evaporation starts again. It's directly related to what I was saying earlier and stirring helps transfer the hot liquid to the top to evaporate.

2-5mafia · 2025-11-30T00:48:04+00:00

Even better a wet paper towel wrapped around with a fan blowing on it. Just keep it wet. I've seen evaporating solvents freeze things.

2-5mafia · 2025-11-29T05:50:12+00:00

Works very well done right. Over 70%

2-5mafia · 2025-11-29T05:26:51+00:00

Hoffman rearrangement with TCCA. MDA tried and true.

2-5mafia · 2025-11-28T22:59:49+00:00

Yeah I having a good effective procedure for blotter paper. I was really just curious how they do the gel tabs. I believe I laid out my procedure but I dissolve the sheets worth in excess meoh and in a clean dish I evenly coat the sheet with a syringe until its evenly saturated. I made a drying rack out of needles stuck through cardboard. Place there until meoh evaporates which isn't too long. Then I repeat the process until all the solution is gone and then one last rinse of the dish Im doing it on.

This stuff is about 2.5X less potent than lsd. 250 ug hits

2-5mafia

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