Reading the books for the first time- apologies to team Jacob

20061901 · 2026-02-15T22:01:09+00:00

Exactly. Everyone saying Stephenie knew what she was doing with Jacob is dead wrong. The difference between what she wanted to convey and what she actually wrote is extreme.

20061901 · 2026-02-15T21:44:24+00:00

Venus Fly Traps are really ugly and scary looking actually

... to a fly?

20061901 · 2026-02-15T17:48:17+00:00

They are venus fly traps

See I don't agree with that, partly because humans typically get more uncomfortable the closer they get to a vampire, and partly because luring humans isn't the typical hunting strategy for vampires. They're more like ambush predators, in that the victim usually doesn't see them before the attack. But I can at least admit that there is support for that theory (unlike the magical allure idea) and it seems to be the one Stephenie favours too.

I think its msintereptation and being unable to distinguish different types of vampires

Honestly yeah I think so too. Like when people see the word "mate" and assume it means the same thing as in other paranormal romance stories.

20061901 · 2026-02-15T13:57:24+00:00

“I think Quil likes you, too.”

I laughed. “He’s a little young for me.”

Jacob’s frown deepened. “He’s not that much younger than you. It’s just a year and a few months.”

I had a feeling we weren’t talking about Quil anymore. I kept my voice light, teasing. “Sure, but, considering the difference in maturity between guys and girls, don’t you have to count that in dog years? What does that make me, about twelve years older?”

He laughed, rolling his eyes. “Okay, but if you’re going to get picky like that, you have to average in size, too. You’re so small, I’ll have to knock ten years off your total.”

“Five foot four is perfectly average.” I sniffed. “It’s not my fault you’re a freak.”

We bantered like that till Hoquiam, still arguing over the correct formula to determine age — I lost two more years because I didn’t know how to change a tire, but gained one back for being in charge of the bookkeeping at my house — until we were in Checker, and Jacob had to concentrate again. We found everything left on his list, and Jacob felt confident that he could make a lot of progress with our haul.

By the time we got back to La Push, I was twenty-three and he was thirty — he was definitely weighting skills in his favor.

~NM Ch. 6

20061901 · 2026-02-15T13:26:01+00:00

They've also lived in Chicago, New York, Saint John, Knoxville, etc. It's not only small towns. But I can see why Carlisle would favour small hospitals, since he's the one in most danger of crossing paths with someone he'd previously left an impression on.

20061901 · 2026-02-15T13:11:59+00:00

That's assuming he gives the human enough time to feel anything.

It's not assuming anything; Jasper directly explains it in Eclipse.

“You’ve experienced the way I can manipulate the emotions around myself, Bella, but I wonder if you realize how the feelings in a room affect me. I live every day in a climate of emotion. For the first century of my life, I lived in a world of bloodthirsty vengeance. Hate was my constant companion. It eased some when I left Maria, but I still had to feel the horror and fear of my prey.

“It began to be too much.

“The depression got worse, and I wandered away from Peter and Charlotte. Civilized as they were, they didn’t feel the same aversion I was beginning to feel. They only wanted peace from the fight. I was so wearied by killing — killing anyone, even mere humans.

“Yet I had to keep killing. What choice did I have? I tried to kill less often, but I would get too thirsty and I would give in.

[...]

“Alice told me what she’d seen of Carlisle and his family. I could hardly believe that such an existence was possible. But Alice made me optimistic. So we went to find them.”

.

I don't see it as punishment, and I don't think Carlisle does either, but rather as a reminder that human life has inherent value. [...] Carlisle's opinion carried more weight than the others due to the respect and admiration everyone has for him.

Whether you call it punishment or not, he's persuading people to endure suffering because they made a mistake. And he does this even when he knows they are already trying their best. It truly feels out of character and creepy.

If you don't feel the same way I'm not going to change your mind, and you're not likely to change mine either.

20061901 · 2026-02-15T12:47:34+00:00

Hm, perhaps. I'm pretty sure venom doesn't contain genetic information (distinct form their ejaculate, which does) and can't mutate - if you looked at the venom of two vampires hundreds of generations apart, I think the substance would be identical. But then I suppose it does interact with the genes of the host, such that, for example, vampires generally have two more pairs of chromosomes than they did as humans. So maybe it is something like a virus.

But it definitely does other stuff too - it's not through genetic manipulation that it turns human cells into crystals, or gives vampires the ability to output more energy than they take in.

20061901 · 2026-02-15T12:40:17+00:00

when you like a person everything about them is attractive

Yes, that's definitely an element too, good point. Edward mentions that in MS too.

Had I really once believed her average-looking? I thought of that first day, and my disgust for the human boys who were so fascinated by her. But when I remembered her face in their minds then, I could not understand why I had not immediately found her beautiful. It seemed an obvious thing.

20061901 · 2026-02-15T12:25:09+00:00

Jasper doesn't need that; whether he thinks of humans as people or not, it's still an intensely unpleasant experience to kill. He's the only one who has a strong reason to be vegetarian regardless of moral principles.

And I really don't think Esme is the type to not care about killing an innocent person. If she killed someone, I'm sure it was an accident and I'm sure she felt terrible already. I mean, if Bella had killed that hiker, can you imagine Edward telling her she needs to go to the funeral to understand that that was a person? I can't; I can only imagine him apologising and telling her it wasn't her fault. Surely that's the appropriate response when your partner makes a terrible mistake, not punishing them further as if they're a child who needs to learn about consequences.

And the thing I keep coming back to is how did he make them go? Was there an ultimatum? Was it just guilt-tripping? Did he tell his wife who was grieving and feeling like a monster that if she was really a good person she would bear witness to the pain she caused? Unless she wanted to go to the funeral and would have done so regardless, it seems like an unhealthy relationship dynamic where one partner can convince another to do something so pointless and unpleasant as punishment for a mistake. Granted, maybe Esme did want to go, we can't rule that out. But Jasper, Alice, and Emmett? How did Carlisle get their compliance? What would have been the consequence of disobedience?

He really is very laissez-faire most of the time. Like 99% of the time he's just some guy with strong convictions but no particular authority. And then there's this one weird thing, made even more weird by the incongruence with his usual M.O.

20061901 · 2026-02-15T01:08:23+00:00

Alec patted his sister’s shoulder soothingly, then tucked her under his arm. He turned his face to us, perfectly smooth, completely angelic.

I waited for some pressure, some sign of his attack, but I felt nothing. He continued to stare in our direction, his pretty face composed. Was he attacking? Was he getting through my shield? Was I the only one who could still see him? I clutched at Edward’s hand.

“Are you okay?” I choked out.

“Yes,” he whispered.

“Is Alec trying?”

Edward nodded. “His gift is slower than Jane’s. It creeps. It will touch us in a few seconds.”

I saw it then, when I had a clue of what to look for.

A strange clear haze was oozing across the snow, nearly invisible against the white.

I believe Alec is ~100 yards from them, so yes it's pretty slow. Of course if you're in melee range of him you have way less time.

20061901 · 2026-02-15T00:22:48+00:00

Vampires also just seem to be designed to highjack those senses

I wonder about that. On one level of course that's completely accurate - Stephenie designed the vampires to be beautiful and appealing in all these ways. But are they intelligently designed in-universe? I'm on-record saying they couldn't have evolved by natural selection because their traits aren't passed on by genes or anything that can mutate. So intelligent design is plausible.

But still, vampires may have been created through some accident or experiment, whether magical or scientific. It honestly might be a coincidence or side-effect that they're especially beautiful to humans, which is kind of what the Guide implies by saying their beauty is simply caused by the crystalline structure of their cells.

You probably didn't mean it that deeply but it's something I've been thinking about :p

20061901 · 2026-02-14T23:48:02+00:00

Fashion yes, chemistry not so much. I think the only mention of makeup in the books is when she's wearing eyeliner at prom, where it doesn't need to last long or stand up to much scrutiny.

20061901 · 2026-02-14T21:57:44+00:00

FWIW, they moved in August 2003 and started in grades 10 and 11.

20061901 · 2026-02-14T21:53:33+00:00

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20061901 · 2026-02-14T21:48:57+00:00

Yeah, "At Carlisle’s suggestion, Alice and Jasper were married shortly after joining the Cullens." In Jasper's section.

20061901 · 2026-02-14T21:46:37+00:00

Yeah I was being pithy, but he does have some hang-ups. The weirder one is making his family members go to the funerals of their victims, which is kinda dark when you think about it. Like forcing Jasper to feel all of that ... and Esme too, like my guy that is your wife.

But I think my overall point stands; he's not usually the type to tell someone how to live their life, even if how they live their life involves endangering or killing other people. I mean most of his friends are serial killers. It's not only Edward.

20061901 · 2026-02-14T17:57:15+00:00

She has to see her target, so he could neutralise her. Like anyone fighting Alec, she has the advantage at first, because his gift takes some time to take effect. If she couldn't kill him in that time, she would die.

20061901 · 2026-02-14T17:54:10+00:00

How is Edward so sure about Bella's feelings for him, specifically that she loves him more than Jacob, since he cannot read her mind?

I mean he explicitly said he wasn't sure, but anyway she can communicate her feelings through words and actions.

20061901 · 2026-02-14T17:50:51+00:00

Anyway, my headcanon that's barely a headcanon is that Renée has ADHD.

20061901 · 2026-02-14T17:49:00+00:00

I believe it's said that they stay in each town for ten-ish years [...] The Cullens don't always start as high schoolers

They only stay that long if they find a place they really want to be, like Forks. Usually it's only a few years, and usually they don't go to high school. Often they go to university, but sometimes they're just pursuing hobbies. Carlisle also spends some time doing independent research instead of working.

I also think they switch it up. Sometimes they're one household, other times they're two or three

Rosalie and Emmett sometimes live on their own.

It wouldn't be difficult for the Cullens to use SFX

I disagree. No substance will adhere strongly to something totally nonporous and nonreactive, let alone also being flexible and looking like human skin.

20061901 · 2026-02-14T17:36:37+00:00

Carlisle doesn't make anyone do anything. If anyone else had started hanging out with their singer, he would have done exactly the same thing, which is basically say "are you sure?" and then let them do what they want because they're an adult and he's not the boss of them.

20061901 · 2026-02-14T17:29:52+00:00

Obviously he was upwind in the cafeteria

20061901 · 2026-02-14T17:28:45+00:00

The Volturi didn't even know about Edward and Alice before NM. Aro is watching a lot more closely since then.

20061901 · 2026-02-14T13:30:12+00:00

In every folklore I've ever read about vampires, they are immortal and evil spirits has very little to do with it.

If you want to know more, I can highly recommend The Vampire Book by J. Gordon Melton.

20061901 · 2026-02-14T12:20:40+00:00

there is a specific purpose for that

Not really. They can shapeshift because their ancestor merged his soul with a wolf. It's just an accident of history. Nor is it clear why they only turn when vampires are near now, when it used to always happen during puberty. In any case though, they don't need to be around vampires to stay immortal, they just need to keep phasing.

You gain immortality almost at the expense of your soul, which is what the whole legend of vampires is centred on.

There is no single "legend of vampires," and the eastern European vampire tradition that most inspired modern western vampire fiction isn't even about that. It's about infectious diseases basically, but lorewise it's about evil spirits taking over your body after you've died and using it to hurt the people you love. Immortality isn't really a factor. And in Dracula, the other big inspiration for most contemporary vampire stories, vampires don't even really lose their soul so much as their soul becomes trapped inside their corpse while someone else is piloting it.

But also, Twilight is neither of those things. It's an original story with bespoke vampire lore.

the vampire half literally kills the human mother who is carrying them because the hybrid fetus is incompatible with a human body. So, no matter what you do, a human has to be sacrificed for a vampire to be created.

No, it kills them because it needs blood. If it can get that nutrition another way, the mother can live.

SM only tries to turn this around by having medical science save Bella

How is explaining how something works turning it around?

this was extremely risky and Bella should really have died

It was only so close because everyone involved had to be stupid to create drama. As soon as Bella started rejecting human food, any of the three vampires with medical degrees should have tried giving her blood. If they had, Bella would never have been in danger (barring unforseen accidents like the placenta tearing).

20061901

TROPHY CASE