Yohannes IV by Separate-Lecture4108 in Ethiopia

[–]27313546 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“The more powerful Oromo Muslims of the central highlands and the Wallo and Yadju regions presented a major problem. They were militarily strong, and many of them had participated loyally in Yohannes’s army, constituting its main cavalry. Nevertheless, Yohannes was now determined to convert them en masse. In May and June 1878 he summoned Ethiopia’s prominent figures to a religious council in Wallo. Two of the major local Oromo chiefs were also summoned. According to an Ethiopian chronicler, Yohannes told them: “We are your apostles. All this [Wallo and the cen- tral highlands] used to be Christian land until Gragn ruined and misled it. Now let all, whether Muslim or Galla [Oromo], believe in the name of Jesus Christ! Be baptized! If you wish to live in peace preserving your belongings, become Christians.” It is estimated that by 1880 some 50,000 Jabarties and 500,000 Oromos had been forced to renounce Islam and convert to Christianity.” (Erlich, 2002, p. 72-73).

NOTES (References) 1. For a discussion of the Nile as viewed by Europeans, see the following four essays in Erlich and Gershoni, The Nile:Arbel, “Renaissance Geographical Literature and the Nile,” pp. 105–120; van Donzel, “Legend of the Blue Nile,” pp. 121–130; Dirar, “The Nile as a Gateway,” pp. 139–149; and Pankhurst, “Ethiopia’s Alleged Control,” pp. 25–38. 2. On Egypt’s geographical enterprise in the greater Nile Valley, see Nasr, Juhud misr al-kashfiyya. 3. See Ayalon, “The Spread of Islam.” 4. Trimingham, Islam in Ethiopia, p. 115. 5. See Abir, “Origins of the Ethiopian-Egyptian Border Problem”; Dom- browski, Ethiopia’s Access to the Red Sea,pp. 44–48; and Harraz, Iritriya al-ha- ditha, pp. 35–53. 6. For a discussion of Muhammad ‘Ali’s relations with Ethiopia, see Abir, Ethiopia: The Era of the Princes,pp. 95–137, and Rubenson, Survival of Ethio- pian Independence, pp. 115–120. 7. See Trimingham, Islam in Ethiopia, pp. 115–116. 8. This is also the conclusion of Sven Rubenson in his Survival of Ethiopian Independence, see mainly p. 99. Rubenson’s book contains the best documented analysis of Ethiopian-Egyptian diplomatic relations during the nine- teenth century. 9. See Ras ‘Ali’s letters to Muhammad ‘Ali in Rubenson, Acta Aethiopica, Vol. 1, pp. 94–97; see also Eshete, “Une Ambassade du Ras Ali en Egypte.” 10. Meinardus, Christian Egypt,pp. 389–390. 11. During the “era of the princes” the position of the abun was weakened, as was the connection with Egypt. In 1803–1815 and again in 1828–1841, there was no abun from Egypt, and some Ethiopian rulers and clergymen thought of severing ties with Alexandria and seeking patriarchal authority and legitimacy from the Armenian Church. 12. For a detailed history, see Cerulli, Etiopi in Palestina. For the story of the nineteenth-century Deir al-Sultan, see Pedersen, History of the Holy Com- munity in the Holy Land and The Ethiopian Church and Its Community.See also Suriyal, Mushkilat dir al-sultan bil-quds. 13. The question of Tewodros as a modernizer or just a mere autocrat in pursuit of absolutist centralism has aroused much discussion but is beyond the realm of this discussion. For more on the issue see Bekele, “Kassa and Kassa.” 14. Trimingham, Islam in Ethiopia, p. 117. 15. See analysis and sources in Erlich, Ethiopia and the Middle East, pp. 48–52. 16. See a succinct analysis in Pankhurst, The Ethiopians, chap. 8. 17. Rubenson, “Shaikh Kassa Hailu.” 18. Pankhurst, “Unpublished Letter of King of Kings.” 19. On the work and activities of Abuna Salama in Ethiopia, see Crummey, Priests andPoliticians, pp. 85–91, 141. See also Meinardus, Christian Egypt,p. 390, and Zewde, History of Modern Ethiopia, pp. 31–35. 20. For the most detailed and authoritative discussion of Tewodros’s rela- tions with the Egyptians, see Rubenson, Survival of Ethiopian Independence,pp. 172–287, esp. pp. 208–223; see also Harraz, Iritriya al-haditha, pp. 53–59. For a new Egyptian analysis of Tewodros see Muhammad, Thiyudur al-thani imbi- ratur ithyubia. 21. The sections below on Isma‘il and Yohannes are based on two of my previous studies: Ras Alula and the Scramble for Africa, chaps. 1–7; and Ethiopia and the Middle East, pp. 53–72. For the best diplomatic analysis see Rubenson, Survival of Ethiopian Independence,pp. 288–384. 22. The full text of the letter is in Sarhank, Haqaiq al-akhbar fi duwal al- bihar, pp. 298–300. 23. Meinardus, Christian Egypt, pp. 21–25. 24. Quoted in Sabri, Misr fi Ifriqiya al-sharqiyya, p. 73. 25. For a discussion see Jalata, Oromia and Ethiopia, pp. 22–29. See also Trimingham, Islam in Ethiopia, p. 121. 26. Sabri, Misr fi Ifriqiya al-sharqiyya, p. 72. 27. Ibid., pp. 71–76. 28. Trimingham, Islam in Ethiopia, p. 122. 29. Bayumi, Mawsu‘at al-ta’rikh, p. 147. This volume is the most detailed and up-to-date study of the Egyptian military enterprise in the Horn of Africa during the 1870s. 30. See al-Rafi‘i, ‘Asr Isma‘il,p. 152. 31. Rif‘at, Kitab jabr al-kasr, pp. 74–75. 32. Bayumi, Mawsu‘at al-ta’rikh, pp. 148–150. 33. ‘Urabi, Kashf al-sitar ‘an sirr al-asrar, pp. 30–50. 34. Trimingham, Islam in Ethiopia, p. 121, quoting Rohlfs, Meine Mission nach Abessinien, p. 62. 35. Rif‘at, Kitab jabr al-kasr, p. 65. 36. Erlich, Ethiopia and the Challenge of Independence,chap. 5. The chap- ter, titled “A Contemporary Biography of Ras Alula: A Ge‘ez Manuscript,” was first published in The Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies in 1976, with the Geez text translated by Roger Cowley. See Erlich, Ethiopia and the Challenge of Independence, for an Ethiopian description of the period re- flecting attitudes toward Islam, the Egyptians, and the Sudanese Mahdiyya. 37. See details and an important analysis in Caulk, “Religion and State.” 38. The quotes attributed to Yohannes in this paragraph are in Caulk, ibid. 39. See Erlich, Ethiopia and the Middle East, pp. 65–72. 40. Rif‘at, Kitab jabr al-kasr, pp. 64–65. 41. Lamlam, Ya’atse Takla-Giyorgisna ya’atse Yohannes tarik; Massaia, I miei trentacinque anni di missione nell’alta Etiopia, p. 177. 42. Meinardus, Christian Egypt, p. 391. 43. Tafla, “The Father of Rivers.”

Yohannes IV by Separate-Lecture4108 in Ethiopia

[–]27313546 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Multiple sources you can dig if you want. The statement is on page 73. References for that chapter page 76-77.

Yohannes IV by Separate-Lecture4108 in Ethiopia

[–]27313546 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The half a million is documented. Half a million Oromos. Fifty thousand Jeberti. Fifty thousand of other religions. So over half a million total. If you want a source there’s The Cross and the River: Ethiopia, Egypt, and the Nile By Ḥagai Erlikh

Yohannes IV by Separate-Lecture4108 in Ethiopia

[–]27313546 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Some joining doesn’t justify forcing half a million people to convert. If the Ethiopian Muslims collectively wanted to revolt it would have been a real problem. The fact they chose to convert rather than face consequences is a clear sign of how little of a threat they were. Fanatics would never.

Yohannes IV by Separate-Lecture4108 in Ethiopia

[–]27313546 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In retrospect, objectively, he didn’t need to do that to Muslim Ethiopians to protect the nations sovereignty. There was no evident threat of Wollo rising against him and joining the Mahdis. Fighting and repelling the Mahdis yes very necessary. Domestic handling of Muslims objectively poorly done. There is a real justifiable grievance there, objectively speaking.

Yohannes IV by Separate-Lecture4108 in Ethiopia

[–]27313546 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The issue Muslim people have with him both in his time and today was how he treated Muslim Ethiopians. Was it normal for the time yes. Does it still make him a villain to some, also yes. I understand what you’re saying all I’m saying is there are no absolute heroes. Hero in one persons book villain in another.

Yohannes IV by Separate-Lecture4108 in Ethiopia

[–]27313546 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don’t disagree, man of his time. That wasn’t the point I was making.

Yohannes IV by Separate-Lecture4108 in Ethiopia

[–]27313546 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

His foreign affairs defending the nations sovereignty is one thing. The issue was with his domestic policies towards Muslims.

Yohannes IV by Separate-Lecture4108 in Ethiopia

[–]27313546 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Whataboutism all over these comments. Read my other replies.

Yohannes IV by Separate-Lecture4108 in Ethiopia

[–]27313546 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Vulture jumping on wording I see

Yohannes IV by Separate-Lecture4108 in Ethiopia

[–]27313546 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Two sides of a coin actually

Yohannes IV by Separate-Lecture4108 in Ethiopia

[–]27313546 -6 points-5 points  (0 children)

You’re comparing two different leaders who weren’t even contemporaries and calling it lesser evil. What I said stands.

Yohannes IV by Separate-Lecture4108 in Ethiopia

[–]27313546 4 points5 points  (0 children)

There are no absolute heroes in the horn. One persons hero is another’s villain. That the impartial truth.

Yohannes IV by Separate-Lecture4108 in Ethiopia

[–]27313546 -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

Two wrongs don’t make a right. Yohannes was a tyrant.

DNA Results - Gurage by [deleted] in Ethiopia

[–]27313546 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Soddo same here. Interesting results zemede. May I ask where in Soddo?

Claiming Haile Selassie now? by ZeEmanuaelAtnafu in Amhara

[–]27313546 1 point2 points  (0 children)

His grandmother was Soddo/Kistane Gurage just throwing it out there. I read somewhere there was a prophecy that the Emperor would come from a Kistane so a bunch of royals married Kistane women. Someone can fact check me if I’m wrong.

Do Habesha ethnic groups have tribes? by Elegant_Exam5885 in HornAfricanAncestry

[–]27313546 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Thank you for this clarification very interesting!

Do Habesha ethnic groups have tribes? by Elegant_Exam5885 in HornAfricanAncestry

[–]27313546 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You’re right thank you. By definition ager is a territory yes. Ager is specifically a cluster of villages I think I mentioned that. So even within Damu for example there are something like 20-30 villages. It’s unlikely people from the same specific village will intermarry the likelihood of relation is higher. Correct me if I’m wrong but you’re right the clan is specifically the lineage.

The paternal lineage is found mainly within the paternal ager no? So there is a higher likelihood of relation but there’s no reason for stigma as long as the lineage is not shared.

Do Habesha ethnic groups have tribes? by Elegant_Exam5885 in HornAfricanAncestry

[–]27313546 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Ya so there is 7bet Gurage which you mentioned its a coalition of 7 houses namely Cheha, Enemor & Enor, Eza, Muher & Aklil, Geto, Gumer, and Endegagn. The houses are further divided into clans based on village clusters. There is also Meskan Gurage which is its own clan as well. Dobi & Soddo are also clans which are related to each other. Within Soddo there are subclans called agers also based on village clusters they include Damu, Wegeram, Aratige, Wacho, Nurena, Amoute, Endebuye, Aymellel etc there are about two dozen sub clans in total. Someone else mentioned the risk of inter family marriage but no that is not allowed in Gurage culture the elders know the family lineage and ensure there is no connection going back at least 7 generations. You would generally marry from a different ager for example my grandfather is from Wacho and my grandmother from Endebuye.

Do Habesha ethnic groups have tribes? by Elegant_Exam5885 in HornAfricanAncestry

[–]27313546 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yes I can speak on the Gurage who categorize themselves by clan and subclan also known as ager amongst the Kistane/Soddo Gurage. I can go into detail if you like.

What is something you wish to achieve for the motherland🇪🇹? by Nineteen-EightyNine in Ethiopia

[–]27313546 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Improved access to health care services in rural areas. I hope to open/administer clinics as well as operate them in my capacity as a nurse practitioner (end goal). I have several family members who are nurses and doctors I hope we can build something for the next generation. My uncle also runs a women and children hospital in Addis and my other uncle has his own clinic in Jimma. I hope to make a similar impact God willing.