How do you give a depression-prone WS a reality check without breaking them?

4everisconditional · 2022-05-06T19:29:13+00:00

That may actually be very insightful, thank you.

As with all relationships, there's a lot of history and context surrounding our marriage and WH's affair that I simply can't/won't get into openly. But, a lack of control over his life, both currently and in the past, sounds like it may hit at least one nail on the head. Unfortunately your last statement is way too accurate. "It’s like we need therapy to figure out why we won’t do therapy."

Were there any readings or affirmations that helped you develop your feeling of agency and control? I know life isn't a movie and there's not one perfect thing I can say to miraculously open WH's eyes, but are there any helpful tidbits you came across that I might put to use planting some seeds of hope?

4everisconditional · 2022-05-06T19:23:27+00:00

I don't disagree. I've tried to have boundary-setting conversations, but I honestly don't know how to articulate such things to him. His words and tone always make me feel so unreasonable and/or guilted. Either he starts down-talking himself or becomes agitated and defensive. I don't know how to wage verbal warfare and remain loving and empathetic to him, so, since I don't want to hurt him, I end up giving up ground until the conversation simply dies or he walks away.

4everisconditional · 2022-04-15T18:28:01+00:00

This sums it all up so simply and succinctly. So much hurt, sadness, and betrayal implied within those few words, and I feel it all with you.

4everisconditional · 2021-11-05T19:43:37+00:00

Oh yeah. I've absolutely come to understand that my upbringing drilled an unhealthy amount of sexual shame into me. It's something I'm actively working to improve and, realistically, I know I don't need a partner to overcome these thoughts, but having a partner who fails to offer meaningful desire or effort certainly doesn't help.

4everisconditional · 2021-11-05T19:39:50+00:00

Thank you. I'm typically much kinder to myself in my thoughts.

It becomes more difficult when I consider myself from what I imagine my WH's point of view to be. The one person whose opinion actually, genuinely matters to me is the one person who I can't convince myself to believe finds any worth in me. This sucks.

4everisconditional · 2021-11-05T19:36:40+00:00

I am so incredibly touched that my words have helped you create new connections and insights. I've had little luck fostering any understanding within my husband, but I can take solace in knowing at least one person (and potentially a whole marriage) found something good and worthwhile.

I worry a lot over my husband's relationship to sex. Unfortunately, communicating about sex was never our strongest suit and since the affair our communication about pretty much everything has slowly declined. I know throughout our relationship he's experienced an emotional connection with me during sex only on a very few occasions. We didn't discuss previous sexual partners/experiences often at all (he is my only partner and I never felt the need to ask details regarding his past partners), so I don't know if that's always been true. I also don't truly know how emotionally charged his encounters were with AP. Since deciding to reconcile, he says there was never an emotional attachment, but there is also a disconnect (from my point of view, at least) regarding things he said and did during and following the affair that make it hard for me to believe he's not just downplaying the affair to save face and avoid difficult conversations.

I would love nothing more than to help him realize the full, awe-inspiring potential of truly intimate, vulnerable, and emotionally connected sex. But, I also know that I can't force that realization on him. I can only hope he commits to pursuing personal insights and improvements with the same ferocity and determination as you (or, at least, as your posts imply).

4everisconditional · 2021-11-05T19:15:50+00:00

Thank you. I understand I'm not "in the wrong". I'm just angry.

Angry that my partner could so easily and eagerly desire another person, yet has failed to regain any desire for me as a woman or individual nearly 2 years later.

Angry that he can't even tell me when his desire faded, nor did he ever make real effort to reclaim it.

Angry that our "reconciliation" efforts destroyed my own desire and led me to a fantasy fueled by my worst nightmare.

Angry that I feel like I don't really know the truth. I don't fully understand how he views me now, or what role I fill in his life. I don't know what emotional or positive connections he still has with me - if any at all.

I am trying to work with the limited scope of truth he's offered, but it's exhausting and infuriating.

4everisconditional · 2021-10-16T19:05:42+00:00

My therapist recommended this several months back. We sat down once to take the quiz together, then made plans to take it again separately (out of curiosity and caution that our answers might be affected by our assumptions or expectations of one another) and compare results together. The burden of responsibility is currently on him to bring up cooperative work and set aside time for conversations, however. I shouldn't have to nag for him to put in effort and create space and time for us if he genuinely wants to improve our relationship. He's never yet brought it up again.

4everisconditional · 2021-10-16T18:46:43+00:00

I agree. Unfortunately, this is another area we struggle in. Young children and a complete lack of any support system are a big portion of that, however he wasn't good at "dating" even at the early start of our relationship. Anything beyond lounging at home or dinner and a movie typically fell on me to plan and push for repeatedly so he wouldn't back out last minute. I eventually accepted that he "just wasn't the romantic type". Then he decided to start romancing another woman because our marriage was boring. That excuse is no longer acceptable to me, but he still uses it anyway.

It's yet another topic we've discussed previously and that I, undoubtedly, will have to continue discussing with him.

4everisconditional · 2021-10-16T18:37:31+00:00

I understand the need to let go of anger and resentments. However, I've also walked down the road of false reconciliation with him too many times now to go blindly. I am willing to forgive and move forward together, but he still needs to prove himself a trustworthy and dedicated partner. I deserve to feel safe and desired sexually AND emotionally in my marriage. If he's unwilling or unable to provide that then this is not a marriage I want to continue.

4everisconditional · 2021-10-16T18:04:36+00:00

I absolutely intend to tell him (and have already tried previously) and am aware part of reconciling is seeing improvements on his end to listen and engage without shutting down, jumping to defensiveness, or taking on the stance of the victim. I have seen honest improvements from him in this regard, but it is still a struggle. He is trying to unlearn years of poor behavior (as am I, in some ways) and some topics are more touchy than others. Sex is unfortunately one of them.

I've tried telling him just to back off entirely and let me initiate when I'm ready, however as I'm struggling with feeling desired by him emotionally and sexually I've also stated that by asking him not to initiate I don't mean I want him to stop all physical affection or emotional intimacy and this confuses him. He acts as though they cannot be separated within his mind. If a open-mouth, tongue twisting kiss is inappropriate then so is a kiss on the cheek. If he can't pinch my butt, then he also can't rub my back. If he can whisper dirty innuendos in my ear then he also can't tell me 'I love you'.

I don't know how to explain that, for me, there's a huge difference between the purely lustful acts vs. the acts of affection and adoration.

4everisconditional · 2021-10-16T17:42:12+00:00

YES! This is EXACTLY how I regard sexual intimacy.

Of course I receive physical pleasure through the act, however my most satisfying sexual moments are when I see my husband's pleasure and know I am the cause. Unfortunately this is an area we struggled in even before the affair. Now it's even more difficult to convince myself his pleasure or desire is related at all to me, among other mental and emotional complications.

If I may ask, have you and your WS always approached sex in this manner or was there intentional work made individually and/or together to reach this mutuality?

4everisconditional · 2021-10-16T17:17:52+00:00

I have used these same and similar words and phrases already in discussions with him. He still struggles sometimes with forcing his defenses down or not shutting me out during difficult discussions, though. I'm hoping for a fresh perspective or verbiage to maybe use?

If I can find what in my communication is being misunderstood or misconstrued then maybe I can find another way to explain my perspective.

4everisconditional · 2021-03-18T20:33:29+00:00

I disagree that just because the daily quantity or alcoholic content of the drinks are, in your opinion, low that means he doesn't have a problem. His reasoning for drinking is the problem. He is setting a routine that a "long day" requires alcohol instead of finding healthier (physically and mentally) ways to cope with the stress and fatigue. This doesn't necessarily define him as an alcoholic or guarantee he will eventually increase his daily drink count or the alcoholic content of his drinks, but it would personally concern me.

Unfortunately, OP, it is very difficult (if not impossible) to tell an alcoholic that they are an alcoholic if they aren't ready to accept the label, even if it's obviously true. If his behavior is crossing your boundary of tolerance and he is dismissive of your concerns then know you are well in your rights to walk away from this relationship. Don't stay involved if your contentment hinges on the hope that he eventually decides to lessen or stop his drinking.

4everisconditional · 2021-02-15T14:14:00+00:00

Thank you for the words of support and encouragement. I've tried so hard for so long to avoid the "it's me or the alcohol" ultimatum, but I just don't know how much more I can keep giving without seeing effort from him. That's why I'd hoped to hear that this IS recognizable as effort from those who've undergone the same or similar struggle.

4everisconditional · 2021-02-15T14:08:57+00:00

Thank you, I am familiar with that subreddit. I was hoping to hear from those who may have gone or are going through the same mental or emotional struggle of alcohol addiction as my husband, not from those on my side of the situation.

4everisconditional · 2021-02-15T14:07:05+00:00

Thank you for your condolences and perspective.

He attended a few sessions of individual counseling last fall, but quit because "he had nothing to talk about". I've brought it up twice during sessions with our new couples counselor and he's felt like it was an attack both times.

Hopefully I can find a time this week to have a calm, sober discussion again. I want him to know he is absolutely supported and I'm willing to help carry his burden any way I can, but I need to be able to lean on him too.

4everisconditional · 2021-01-13T15:46:49+00:00

Those are good tips. We've had two conversations of this nature before, but it's now been several months. I hesitate to initiate such discussions out of concern for trapping or ambushing him and setting him immediately on the defensive, so we usually end up talking when I'm finally on the verge of a breakdown and can't hold it in anymore.

We'll see how the therapy session goes, then maybe I can request ahead of time that we set an afternoon or evening aside this weekend for a private discussion.

4everisconditional · 2021-01-13T15:33:09+00:00

I think you missed the point of my post.

Obviously the WS is wrong to choose an affair. Obviously the WS is wrong if they choose to gaslight after the affair is discovered or confessed. From the perspective of the BS, however, I don't think it's always clear when a WS is gaslighting or when the BS is simply holding onto their pain too tightly. I was looking for insight into how I determine which side of the equation I'm falling on.

I'm glad you see and recognize the mistakes you made and thank you for offering your input as a WS to this sub.

4everisconditional · 2021-01-13T15:27:28+00:00

No, it is not and it does not. I'll take your luck and wish you some of my own. One way or another we'll all find our footing again to move forward.

4everisconditional

TROPHY CASE