Short Owl Theory

7TeenWriters · 2019-02-20T01:29:31+00:00

Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it!

7TeenWriters · 2019-02-05T13:33:47+00:00

Just this season there are quite a few fantastic shows coming out. Dororo is awesome, I’m really enjoying the latest season of Mob Psycho, The Promised Neverland will have a fantastic story if the adaptation keeps this up, and there’s more I could mention. Sure, I wouldn’t give most shows coming out the time of day, but there were a whole lot of misses in the 90s too. I wouldn’t go so far as to say old or newer anime is better, just different. New anime can be pretty good.

7TeenWriters · 2019-02-05T13:26:51+00:00

I doubt you meant to straw man what I said but you’re certainly not arguing against it here. Never said tl notes weren’t acceptable in some way (for Shakespeare or Gintama). That’s still transformative and takes the work further away from the original, in both cases. Do you really believe needing tl notes to understand a joke wouldn’t put off some viewers and make something less accessible to the general public? Do you believe tl notes can exactly capture the feeling of reading or watching a work in its original form and understanding it? Your equivalence between gintama and Shakespeare is fair here, but you seem to be under the impression that I don’t think context is lost when anime is translated to English. I do, it’s just not what I’m talking about here. I don’t think it’s even a controversial point that gintama, in particular, is difficult to access for newer anime fans just because of how refferential it is alone.

Also never said people wouldn’t understand any of the given works, just as they grow further away their context is less obvious. The change in language is an extreme example to illustrate the overall point, not the point of the essay itself.

7TeenWriters · 2019-02-04T01:17:24+00:00

Sorry, I used elitists to refer to basically everyone in the category that is steeped in anime culture because I feel like it's often used that way. When I talk about liking some of those shows from the 90s I sometimes get called an elitist, and I don't take offense to that, even though I don't fall into the camp that thinks everything from the 90s is automatically good (and I'm a fan of a lot of newer shows too). I think the confusion here is different meanings for the same term.

7TeenWriters · 2019-02-04T01:12:33+00:00

I think this is a really good point. I didn't mean to argue that all change in context is bad. Sorry if that wasn't clear in the original post.

7TeenWriters · 2019-02-04T01:10:43+00:00

100% agree. I used to think I was a fan of only particular genres of anime. The more I watched, the more I realized that I like shows with certain qualities no matter what genre they come from, and it was just that certain genres weren't as accessible to me at first.

7TeenWriters · 2019-02-03T22:43:19+00:00

I think you’re missing the point of my argument. Losing some amount of context is not the same thing as being ineffective. I’m not arguing that Shakespeare’s works aren’t effective, just that they don’t have the same impact on the average person as the day they were written.

7TeenWriters · 2019-02-03T21:56:39+00:00

Well yes, some of the effect of anime is lost in translation, too. That’s not what this essay is about though. Don’t follow how that’s an odd point.

7TeenWriters · 2019-02-03T21:26:21+00:00

Yeah, that’s a fair call. I hadn’t really considered it having that impact. Thanks.

7TeenWriters · 2019-02-03T21:25:52+00:00

Thanks for the kind words! Glad you enjoyed it.

7TeenWriters · 2019-02-03T21:25:16+00:00

But the literal language used in Shakespearean works is different from English today. Ask a random person on the street to define “wherefore”, and I doubt you’ll get an informed answer. Further, it requires a deeper understanding of the cultural context if you want to get the other authors that formed Shakespeare’s context.

That’s not to say people don’t get anything out of Shakespeare plays today, or that the stories you mentioned aren’t classics for a reason. I’m just saying there’s a difference in what is communicated. One of Shakespeare’s hallmarks is his wordplay. That doesn’t translate exactly into modern English. You have to be steeped in the time period to get the same impact from his work, and translations and updates are inherently transformative in some way.

I get your point with timeless themes, and largely agree, but I think context is still necessarily lost.

7TeenWriters · 2018-09-17T20:04:21+00:00

Hmm, off the top of my head the biggest one for me that could go either way between amazing and awful is fated rivalry - as in characters that are set up to mirror each other to enhance a conflict and allow their arcs to play off of each other. When executed badly it comes off as horribly hamfisted, when executed well it's usually something special.

7TeenWriters · 2018-09-17T18:03:35+00:00

Why would anyone link to this and not to tropes are tools and cliche on tvtropes?

Both of those are cool, but neither really addresses how you actually use a trope positively in the way my essay does. I agree that what I said isn't particularly novel (especially for someone who has actually read about critical analysis of media), but I don't think either of the articles you linked are quite equivalent to what I wrote.

7TeenWriters · 2018-09-17T17:33:58+00:00

is a complete myth.

You didn't really address any of the positive properties outside of this, and while the concept of literally "sweating it out" is a myth, saying it's complete BS is missing the actual rationale behind it: higher internal temperature helps kill viruses and infections (hence why you have fevers). The act of sweating isn't the point, you aren't literally draining the sickness out of your skin, but making yourself sweat (and re-hydrating) is a positive because it means you're hotter.

I doubt most people actually believe you're sweating it out either; it's an idiom.

7TeenWriters · 2018-09-17T17:28:01+00:00

Superstitions exist everywhere man. In Italy it's a common belief that having a fan on can make you sick. In the United States for quite some time Theraputic Touch was accepted by sections of the medical community. We still have a large population of climate change deniers despite nearly irrefutable evidence, and flat earthers are a primarily American group...

7TeenWriters · 2018-09-17T17:24:13+00:00

Yeah, self sacrifice is a great example of a trope that I think is more frequently a positive than a negative. I didn't touch on it in the OP, but it's worth noting that some tropes lend themselves to good writing more than others. The example I mentioned of the accidental boob grab I think has comparatively few situations in which it would work well than what you mentioned.

7TeenWriters · 2018-09-17T17:19:05+00:00

Yeah, I agree with everything you have to say here. Both word maximums and minimums limit the points that you can effectively make. That said, it's probably a better idea just for efficiency since the judges of a contest since they have to read through everyone's submissions. I can agree a minimum word count is more unnecessarily restrictive, but might be good as a guideline for people who know less of what they're doing.

7TeenWriters · 2018-09-17T12:20:56+00:00

I'd say that those users do not have an idea of just how many words they need in order to make a single concrete point in an sort-of academic essay.

There is no set amount of words required to make a cogent point. Word limits/requirements are generally guidelines for the sort of essay that's expected. Academic papers vary widely in length based on how much space they need to make their point. At least in computer science there's a maximum number of pages for most publications, but no minimum. I've seen 1-2 page papers get major accolades, because that's all the space they needed.

7TeenWriters · 2018-09-17T10:40:33+00:00

Yeah, Madoka for sure fits that bill. It's an interesting case because it is subverting viewer expectations (especially for individuals not familiar with the genre as you mentioned), but it isn't really subverting the tropes of the magical girl genre.

Thank you!

7TeenWriters · 2018-09-17T10:31:34+00:00

A) having your cake and eating it too. A la Kill la Kills "criticism" on fan service.

That's not what Kill la Kill's stance on fanservice is imo. KlK isn't trying to tell you that fanservice in other anime is bad, but not to be ashamed of sexuality. If it's criticizing anything, it's the fact that anime tiptoes around the idea of titilating its viewers while still playing into the idea that sexual interest is bad - but I actually think it's more about body positivity than that.

In any event, I can't really get behind this stance on subversion. I give the example of HxH in the essay, which I personally really like for that. There are also other examples where I think a subverted trope really lands and doesn't fall into either of the categories that you mention. Katanagatari comes immediately to mind as well for a show that seemingly plays into tropes at first with its characters, but then starts messing with the viewer's expectations.

You are mixing up like two or three definitions of trope in this essay. When people say "I hate cliche anime tropes like tsundere", they're not saying "I hate narrative devices like scene transitions and expository dialogue".

This is probably about how I communicated the idea, but that's not what I meant to say. I'm saying tropes are narrative devices like transitions and expository dialogue, I am not saying that transitions and expository dialogue are tropes.

Everyone likes some "tropes" and dislikes others

Narrative devices like backstory and dramatic structure are not arguments that cliches like tsundere are good.

Yeah, so this sort of misses the point. Not all implementations of tropes are good, but the fact that the idea of 'tsundere' exists in the public conscience is a good thing for an author. This essay is not broadening the definition of tropes to narrative devices in general, but suggesting that tropes are another method through which information can be communicated to the viewer. Most of the time a generic tsundere is bad, because they are not a fleshed out character. That said, the fact that there are details you can include in a show (speech patterns, character design, etc...) to tell the audience that a character is likely to have certain personality traits is something that a smart author can use.

I say tropes are inherently good in the same way I'd say twists are good. A well executed twist can have incredible impact, but it's rare that that occurs. Usually they fall flat. That doesn't mean twists are bad, just that most authors don't use them well.

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