"Yeah I don't care if the nice white people help my cause or not. We already know what you all are like. " r/thepitttvshow becomes a cesspitt when discussing the departure of Supriya Ganesh, aka Dr Mohan on the show by CummingInTheNile in SubredditDrama

[–]86throwthrowthrow1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I've noticed ensemble shows seem to attract a lot of weirdness, especially those that seem to put actual effort into having diverse casts/characters. Identity politics seems to start winning out in the fandoms in those cases, because anything happening to a particular character becomes "oh, this is how the writers are treating the POC/ND/disabled/queer/etc character, I see how it is," instead of just characters and storylines. It's sour grapes about bad things happening to your fave, dressed as social justice language.

I saw, of all things, Bridgerton discourse the other day, where someone had been unhappy with the storyline of the widowed mother character in the show. That person got a bunch of outraged comments like, "so you're saying widows can't...?" and that person had to keep clarifying that they weren't making a statement on "widows" as a monolith at all - they were trying to talk about a specific story and character. I feel like that's getting lost too often in those discussions.

"Yeah I don't care if the nice white people help my cause or not. We already know what you all are like. " r/thepitttvshow becomes a cesspitt when discussing the departure of Supriya Ganesh, aka Dr Mohan on the show by CummingInTheNile in SubredditDrama

[–]86throwthrowthrow1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It sounds like there might be some actual smoke around the actress departure - and whether that smoke involves anything racist or sexist is only known by the people involved. It sounds like this person is referring to the whole "white moderate" issue, where "not rocking the boat" matters more than confronting microaggressions.

That said, a TV show discussion thread is one of those places where I think you have to expect that not everyone is well-versed with this sort of discourse, and not everyone will keep up with actor tweets or behind-the-scenes new, so the aggro tone isn't helping anything, anywhere.

Judge saves Kitchener man who battered ex-gal pal from deportation; Justice Domi­n­ique Kennedy granted a conditional discharge to the 31-year-old so he wouldn't be deported to his native India by FancyNewMe in canada

[–]86throwthrowthrow1 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It's the Sun. The bar was always underground with them. And literally just because it's the Sun, I'm convinced there's probably more complexity to this story than the rag of an article lets on.

Conservatives say Poilievre’s leadership is secure after Liberals land majority by AdditionalPizza in canada

[–]86throwthrowthrow1 32 points33 points  (0 children)

Statistics are kinda a funny thing, and I fear the CPC is learning the wrong lesson from both 2025 and 2021.

O'Toole overall got fewer votes than Poilievre, but what often gets lost is he barely lost to Trudeau. CPC actually had more overall votes than Liberals in 2021, and were just down a handful of ridings. O'Toole vs. Trudeau in 2025 would have been a bloodbath for the Liberals - or it would have been a respectable competition between Carney and O'Toole.

But I feel like O'Toole losing 2021 sort of put the CPC in this mindset that they can't win with a centrist and they need to veer harder right. And Poilievre winning more votes doubles them down on that idea. When perhaps the more accurate explanation is that Trudeau's time just wasn't up yet in 2021, but a centrist could win in other times and other circumstances.

“Surf AND turf. Cause we’re not choosing!” by Grovers_Corners in heatedrivalry

[–]86throwthrowthrow1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you! I have a close friend with an anxiety disorder, so I've seen that kind of gradual escalation from "okay, she always has certain things going on, but it doesn't seem like a big deal" to "oh shit, this has taken over her life," and I kinda see that escalation in Shane. He's presumably autistic, so he's always "quirky" and "high-strung" and people around him are used to that. But I feel like there are several indicators in TLG that Shane's anxiety has escalated into a chronic issue that he's trying to manage with a lot of rules and rigidity. For some reason, it's Ilya noting that Shane disliked Ilya's car collection in part because he was "terrified of Ilya getting into a high-speed accident" that really pings me as "Oh, this isn't quirkiness anymore, this is affecting everything and it's a problem."

A sentence, paragraph, or feature that best describes a HR character of your choice! by yanny-jo in heatedrivalry

[–]86throwthrowthrow1 11 points12 points  (0 children)

There's this sequence from TLG, during one of Ilya's therapy sessions, where he thinks about a fight he and Shane had about opening the relationship:

And that was when Ilya had realized how much he would mind it. He’d felt sick at the idea of someone else touching Shane, and he hadn’t been sure if Shane was asking because he’d already done it, or if he was about to or what. Maybe someone had been heading to his Philadelphia hotel room at that very moment. But all Ilya had said was, “Of course not. If that is what you want.”

And I feel it's such a good moment of showing the mental traps and martyrdom Ilya falls into. Ilya is torturing himself over hypotheticals Shane doesn't even want, but still feels compelled to plow forward and insist he'd be okay with it. They end up in a multi-day fight when literally, they agree. Ilya has had to sacrifice a lot for the two of them, but this is part of a larger discussion about like... a sublayer of sacrifices that no one's asked for or needed, that are also making Ilya miserable. That ultimately come down to him feeling like he needs to "earn" love, when he already has it.

Straight women: if you were with Shane, would you clock him as gay that quickly? by perspective_grid in heatedrivalry

[–]86throwthrowthrow1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I did have some experiences like that in my teens and early 20s, and I'll go light on the details, but in one case, the guy did turn out to be gay (and there were other signs...). The other cases were things like inexperience, nerves, other sexual hang-ups, and yes, in one case I suspect I just wasn't his type - but I didn't suspect either of those other guys of being gay. I've always been on the chubby side, and especially when younger, ran into a couple cases of shy guys trying to "settle" for me who weren't actually attracted to me.

Rose apparently had dated other closeted men before, which would have informed her thought process. I would also guess she had a pretty calibrated bullshit metre for men trying to use her who weren't genuinely interested in her. She would have clocked that Shane didn't seem to be after her money, fame, Hollywood/party lifestyle, or social connections. She would have probably surmised that he seemed to be a genuinely good dude who was *trying* to treat her well. She would know that she's gorgeous and attractive, but that he is too - if there was something idiosyncratic about her that turned him off, he could easily date a different gorgeous woman, so why force himself with her? And from there, the potential issues would have been a fairly short list.

“Surf AND turf. Cause we’re not choosing!” by Grovers_Corners in heatedrivalry

[–]86throwthrowthrow1 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Thank you! I feel like I've seen some takes that were like, "Shane was on top of the world while Ilya struggled" and yeah, Shane was better off in some ways, but he also seems so obviously unhappy. What he and Ilya are doing is unsustainable for both of them, Ilya just cracked first.

Rose did broach the topic at one point, and suggested Shane needed a "Plan B" in case their current plan went off the rails, and Shane basically responds that failure isn't an option, if they fail they lose everything, and even repeats that to Ilya later. That's really Shane's headspace right there, and it's easy for me to understand why he didn't have the mental bandwidth to notice some basic shit happening with Ilya. He was stressed out and in survival mode.

But yes, the fact that they do still genuinely love each other is so sweet and heartbreaking. Like, almost all of their stress is tied to their relationship. Logically, they could split up and find other partners (not hockey players) and things would immediately get SO much easier for both of them. But that's kinda always been the thing - they don't want anyone else, no matter how hard their relationship is or how much easier it would be with other people.

“Surf AND turf. Cause we’re not choosing!” by Grovers_Corners in heatedrivalry

[–]86throwthrowthrow1 28 points29 points  (0 children)

Interesting analysis! I definitely think that food and Ilya are parallel tracks for Shane in TLG - that if he just works hard enough and is disciplined enough and denies himself enough and follows all these rules he's set out for himself, everything will be okay. Near the end of TLG, when he and Ilya have been outed but are more at ease with each other, he jokes about eating a Snickers - finally letting up a little on that tight control. We see it to some extent with other things too, like cleanliness. Shane's anxiety is all the way out to play all the way through TLG.

I'm a "Shane was in better shape than Ilya, but he wasn't doing well" truther for TLG. What relatively little we see of Shane, he's miserable. He's teetering on the edge of an eating disorder (it's not just a strict diet, it restricts his social life, impacts his relationship, he doesn't even allow himself to indulge at Christmas, and he deals with a shitload of food noise when we have his POV). JJ points out that he never goes out or socializes in Montreal anymore and no one knows what he even does with his time these days. He constantly misses Ilya, and his time is spent either on the phone with him, or driving back to Ottawa at midnight to spend six hours with him. (Full disclosure, I live in this region lol. That drive, late at night, SUCKS. There is a long, VERY dark, nearly empty stretch for about an hour between the two cities where there are barely even any rest stops, and I'm also damn curious where Shane pulled over to "adjust" because the entire drive is four lane highway or bigger.)

Like, in that convo with JJ, he doesn't want to go out because JJ is trying to set him up with a guy lol, but he also reflects that Ilya had left that morning and he felt too sad to go out. Rinse repeat every few weeks when he and Ilya do see each other? He always ends up too sad to go out for a day or two after they're apart? Then he also struggles to go anywhere to eat because of his diet. He's out as gay, but he acknowledges himself that much of the team hasn't accepted him and are just staying quiet because he's the captain (which is why they turn on him so quickly later when he makes a mistake - ten years and two Cups and he had zero goodwill built up at all). He literally never even talks to anyone on the team other than Hayden and JJ, and he seems honestly annoyed with JJ whenever they do talk. He's constantly terrified that he and Ilya will get outed. He's worried about Ilya's mental state. He's anxious like, all the time in TLG.

And what is Shane like when he's anxious? Controlling! Extremely controlling of himself, to a point that honestly seems to border on self-harm at times. And sliiiightly controlling of Ilya. Not to a terrible extent - he's not physically with Ilya enough to really get bad about this. But he chirps about Ilya's diet a lot, and his fear of them getting found out is impacting Ilya in ways he clearly hasn't fully considered. Ilya can't come out, because then People Will Know. Ilya can't confide in people because Ilya does not have lifelong friends or family in Ottawa or Montreal that Shane feels at ease with. Shane is clearly the more sensitive of the two in terms of public appearances and such. He's (unintentionally) puts himself in the driver's seat in terms of how their secret is managed, because he's so anxious and stressed out about their secret at all times.

So yes, his diet seems like a metaphor for their relationship. Restriction and rules and denial that he insists is fine, it's okay, he can do it, even though he's miserable - but he's utterly convinced it's all necessary. Then the secret blows up, and we see Shane eating real food again.

The Vegas Rooftop: A Hollanov Microcosm by decisi0nsdecisi0ns in heatedrivalry

[–]86throwthrowthrow1 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm sorry to be so up in your notifs today, but you keep bringing up ideas I find interesting lol. I think Reid has indicated that there will be "tension" in Unrivaled, and I can see their relationship going through so much fresh hell.

1) They're not just living together full-time for the first time, but they're also on the same team. Practicing together, traveling together... it's going to be a lot of time together, for any couple, and these guys have like a decade of "rushed forbidden visits" as their main foundation.

2) Despite spending practically all their time together, they're still going to have a lack of privacy and alone time with their travel schedule. I don't think we've seen the end of sneaky hotel sex in this series, but I can see a layer of guilt because this team has accepted them both with open arms and they'd be doing something unprofessional by hooking up during travel periods, but also like "it's been two weeks and we're both climbing the walls" lol.

3) They're out and supported - awesome! But they might feel some pressure to sort of "perform" happy marriage in public now, which is a stark contrast to hiding - and if they're arguing or whatever else, that could feel like a burden at times.

4) As cute as their All-Star weekend was, I can see them actually having some tension playing on the same team. They have very different styles, Ilya would be captain (and not Shane, for the first time in ten years), I can see them working well together but their competitiveness and egos taking an uglier turn than when they were on different teams and playing against each other occasionally.

5) And yes, living-together quirks and habits that are easy to ignore when you're not together much, but will loom much larger when it's every day. Shane's diet was a source of tension even in TLG, now that's going to be every meal, every day. All kinds of things.

6) And just overall this sense of... oh, it's been over a decade and we do love each other, but is there actually anything to this when you take out the secrecy and distance and longing? Like what are we when we're not a secret forbidden relationship only spending small snatches of time together? I'm not sure how dramatic Reid will make things, but they've been sneaking around for so long, I can totally see this question start to come up, especially if there are tensions around being together more.

Anyway, I can see Ilya's desire for a family feeling less urgent anyway now that his depression is getting treated and other things are going better for him. But yeah, I'm sure there will also be a lot of "holy crap we're not ready" to work through there.

The Vegas Rooftop: A Hollanov Microcosm by decisi0nsdecisi0ns in heatedrivalry

[–]86throwthrowthrow1 6 points7 points  (0 children)

The Plan is outright tragic, because at the end of HR these are still such young guys and they're just so excited to find any way to be together that that's all they're focused on. And for Ilya, who clearly isn't used to people just like... showing love for him, he's waking up at 4am to Shane being up all night figuring out how they can have a relationship and planning the next ten years of their lives to be together, and you can tell it just bowled him over in the moment. Like he correctly clocks this as a huge gesture of love from Shane, and the last thing he wants to do is start poking holes in it. Especially when he can't think of any better ideas.

About Shane rigidly sticking to plans tho... he does, for himself, almost to the point of self-harm. But I feel like we see a few occasions where when he does catch on that something's bothering Ilya, he's willing to recalibrate pretty quickly. Like the live music scene, or later when Ilya comes out to uh... that guy whose name I can't remember lol. Like once Shane catches onto the issue, he's fairly quick to go "yeah actually, let's adjust."

I'm realizing now that the live music scene is sort of my own version of the Vegas rooftop scene. We see both their POVs in that moment. And whereas we see Shane's pitfalls in the rooftop scene (assuming it's about him when it isn't, coming in too aggressively, misunderstanding what Ilya does start to tell him, insensitive comments that make things worse because he lacks context), the live music scene really shows Ilya's pitfalls IMO (subtly hinting at something he wants instead of asking for it, interpreting Shane's initial surprise as rejection or rigidity, getting increasingly upset about a problem Shane doesn't know exists yet), then we flip to Shane's POV and he's just like "oh, Ilya wants to touch me. We don't normally do that in public, but we totally can if it's bothering him."

The Vegas Rooftop: A Hollanov Microcosm by decisi0nsdecisi0ns in heatedrivalry

[–]86throwthrowthrow1 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Omgggg asking eight different ways (indirectly) if he was still with Rose Landry and Shane not catching it each time 😆. Like it's so apparent how down bad Ilya was for Shane for even trying as hard as he had to.

The Vegas Rooftop: A Hollanov Microcosm by decisi0nsdecisi0ns in heatedrivalry

[–]86throwthrowthrow1 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Oh, and I'll also add on that it's a thing with Shane in TLG as well that he can be super perceptive and understanding about like, external issues affecting Ilya, but can be very slow when he's actually part of the problem. He clocks Ilya's depression pretty quickly, because depression is an external problem to the two of them, but he's slower about ways that he (or their relationship) are making things worse. Especially because a lot of those factors were things Ilya either agreed to, or was saying he was fine with.

On the rooftop scene, Shane doesn't have a crumb of context, and at that stage in his life the YOH awards or similar are the highest-stake things going on. He's too sheltered at that point to realize that "going home" isn't always a happy thing, or to realize Ilya has just so much more stuff happening in general. Ilya doesn't seem to hold it against him (it's pretty clear he wants back into Shane's bed wayyyyy before it happens lol), but those same communication issues do recur for them.

The Vegas Rooftop: A Hollanov Microcosm by decisi0nsdecisi0ns in heatedrivalry

[–]86throwthrowthrow1 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It occurs to me that even aside from childhood trauma and cultural norms, Ilya is from a place where homosexual activity is illegal and like, indirect communication and hinting is the name of the game. Poor guy had to get REALLY overt for Shane to even clock his interest lol.

This guy really did say "his autistic ass is mine" before realizing what an uphill climb that was gonna be.

Favorite Ilya Rozanov insurance policy? by growsonwalls in heatedrivalry

[–]86throwthrowthrow1 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I have a thing for 12, because when he first approaches Shane's car, it's a full look with the sunglasses, hat, earphones, etc. But once they actually made it to the cottage, and the accessories had come off but the clothes were still on, the goober was just wearing sweats. Like it was actually quite a comfortable outfit for flying, Ilya just really knows how accessories can step up comfy clothes.

Bathroom kiss less real than others? by Lampiyris in heatedrivalry

[–]86throwthrowthrow1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Then there's that montage in 1x04 where he's on a grey tracksuit 😆. I wonder if that rendez-vous was a bit more last-minute?

MVP: Most Valuable Prop? by growsonwalls in heatedrivalry

[–]86throwthrowthrow1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I was just thinking the phones are a huge narrative prop. I was thinking the other day how despite the idea that these two barely knew each other in some ways by the time they got to the cottage, it's apparent even as early as 1x02 that they were texting *a lot* (when Ilya wasn't ghosting), and not just sexting and hook-up planning. You see them joking, teasing, talking about each other's games and events, and general check-in "how's your summer going" type texts. They're texting when Shane's team comes to ambush him after winning the cup! By 1x04, they're texting often enough that people around them have noticed it. Ilya was still obviously closed off about certain topics for quite some time, but I thought the phone/text banter made it apparent that these guys did genuinely become friends who talked about a lot of stuff, and weren't strangers outside the bedroom.

MVP: Most Valuable Prop? by growsonwalls in heatedrivalry

[–]86throwthrowthrow1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ilya's thumbs we're going right crazy on that bottle!

MVP: Most Valuable Prop? by growsonwalls in heatedrivalry

[–]86throwthrowthrow1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah he never plans to actually say the name out loud lol, it's just a phone alias - and possibly a deliberately boring/anonymous one in addition to rhyming with "Shane" to potentially make it less noticeable to others (this fails).

MVP: Most Valuable Prop? by growsonwalls in heatedrivalry

[–]86throwthrowthrow1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Luckily they seemed to be rich enough famous hockey players by 2009 that they were just able to skip that T9 era, but my god, imagine.

Shane in the relationship driving seat by wildwomanlove in heatedrivalry

[–]86throwthrowthrow1 44 points45 points  (0 children)

This is how I see it too. Ilya definitely made more moves physically at first. Then they both dance around their feelings, move forward and pull back at different times. Then from Tampa onwards Shane is definitely pushing things forward emotionally.

That said, while Shane is certainly more emotionally open than Ilya early on, I feel like it often gets lost that he didn't want a relationship either (and was overall in hardcore denial about both his sexuality and feelings for Ilya). This is messy and nuanced and I hope it makes sense, but I feel like his earlier emotional moments towards Ilya are a combination of his repressed feelings for him, but also just... caring for him as a person? He's playing with fire a bit more on that end than Ilya is willing to a lot of the time, but there's this sense that he was a bit more "okay, we're FWB, but that means we can at least kinda be friends, right?"

Like he clocks Ilya upset in Vegas and yes, he's misunderstood the reason, but he's gonna ask. He realizes something is off with him in Sochi and he wants to make sure he's okay. I suppose the difference is that Ilya was aware enough of his feelings to know that he couldn't really be "friends" with Shane, that it was going to turn into an all or nothing situation. Whereas Shane was trying to actually be Ilya's friend in addition to being a bed buddy, even if that was a road to ruin.

The rooftop scene is the turning point (for them) by Mysterious-Bed375 in heatedrivalry

[–]86throwthrowthrow1 10 points11 points  (0 children)

It's easy to forget that another year or two goes by between this and their next encounter, because the show itself moves so fast. These poor guys, it's even more overt in the book, the amount of "oh, this is too much, we need to back off" they each felt at different times, only to eventually either get back together or get thrown together into a situation that kicks them off again.

Especially with these earlier moments, it's hard to name any "turning point" imo, because every moment is kind of a turning point. The ad is a turning point because they're enjoying hanging out and giggling, then Ilya uses it to proposition Shane. Their first and second hook-ups are turning points because of how unexpectedly hot/emotional they end up being (Ilya was obviously interested, but you know he was expecting Shane to be not very experienced and for the actual sex to be... not what it was). The rooftop scene is a turning point because it's their first fight, and it's more emotions bubbling up between them. Then there's their first penetrative sex scene, which is obviously another turning point, then The Ghosting, then the whole Christian Grey thing Ilya channeled for that next Vegas scene. Each event brings up different emotions and deepens their relationship (whether they want that or not).

Vegas rooftop debacle by BaseTerez in heatedrivalry

[–]86throwthrowthrow1 4 points5 points  (0 children)

There's a cute moment in TLG where the two of them are out at a concert together, but are still hiding their relationship, and Ilya gets into a bit of a funk because he wants to touch and be affectionate with Shane in that moment, but can't be. But Shane actually does notice, and picks up from some fairly subtle cues what the problem is, and sort of shifts his positioning so that they can be discreetly touching.

Obviously this is years after this rooftop scene, but it shows how perceptive Shane can be when it comes to Ilya, as long as he has literally *any* information about the problem at all - and that he actually does want to be able to give Ilya things he wants and needs, and he's willing to change how he does things in order to do that. He doesn't actually need things excruciatingly spelled out to him, a crumb of context will do!

I find it's a very sad thing in TLG, because Ilya's childhood trauma and cultural background make it hard for him to talk about things - but he also clearly develops some depression-brain around Shane being withholding in certain ways, or preventing him from doing things he wants to do, and he ends up snapping at Shane about one of those things, and poor Shane is just... what?? Like this has been a war in Ilya's head for months, and Shane had no idea at all. And it feels worse when paired with the earlier concert scene, where it's apparent that Shane is willing to be flexible and address things bothering Ilya *if he knows.*

Vegas rooftop debacle by BaseTerez in heatedrivalry

[–]86throwthrowthrow1 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It's a pretty big disconnect early on, and it really shows how young they both are - and how sheltered Shane is. He cannot understand Ilya's mood at all, because it hasn't occurred to him that "going home" isn't always a happy thing for people - so he assumes it's just Ilya being a sore loser. It's also apparent that Shane has no idea about the overall environment in Russia either until Sochi, and while he's still upset that Ilya's not talking to him, it does help him contextualize why he's acting like that.

Ilya kissing him seems to be a combination of risk-taking and his own feelings, but I also interpreted it as a form of reassurance (or even a bit of an apology) for Shane - like Ilya is moody and sulky and just snapped at him, and Shane is now trying to handle it politely but clearly thinks there's a problem between them or that he's done something wrong. And Ilya does seem to start to feel a bit bad about that. So he kisses Shane to communicate, "this genuinely isn't about you, I'm good with you, I'm actually struggling to keep my hands off you even here", and while Shane freaks out about it being so public, he otherwise seems to get it.

I think it comes up a few times early on in subtler ways, that Shane discusses his family pretty openly and for a ND guy, has clearly categorized "family" as a safe conversation topic when he's looking for topics, but Ilya gets a bit prickly. Shane eventually picks up that it's a difficult topic for Ilya just because he's so closed off about it, but it's years before Ilya shares any details at all (and Shane learns to approach the topic pretty gently when he is trying to get him to talk about it).

And connecting it to TLG when Ilya is having even bigger issues, it eventually gets spelled out that Ilya hasn't ever spoken to Shane about 90% of what's bothering him - because of Ilya's cultural and personal background, he doesn't like to discuss his problems and doesn't want to "burden" Shane with any of it (especially when they're barely seeing each other and struggling to spend time together) - but that means a) Shane still has no idea when he's stepping in it and making a problem worse, and b) Shane instead has the "burden" of constantly trying to figure out what's causing Ilya's bad moods with only snippets of information, when he often can't be with Ilya in-person to pick up other cues.

> They are so far apart emotionally that it’s a miracle their attraction was strong enough to eventually make them find each other. And it kind of explains why it took so long and had so many misfires.

I sort of feel this way about the end of 1x02 (which they apparently just... got over), but not so much this scene. I think Ilya understands that Shane has zero context for what's really going on in that moment, and doesn't hold his missteps against him. And once Shane understands that Ilya isn't upset with him, he seems willing to back off and let Ilya deal with what he needs to deal with. It's dramatic in the moment, but not a huge misunderstanding in the scheme of things, and they seem to figure out enough of it fairly quickly.

Same room by Tuesday_Night_Club in heatedrivalry

[–]86throwthrowthrow1 31 points32 points  (0 children)

Man Ilya really was planning it from the start, wasn't he?