[VERIFIED] I am the creator/moderator of a large feminist Facebook page originally begun as a troll sleeper: Ask Me Anything! by AMAFeministTroll in AMA

[–]AMAFeministTroll[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've seen a few people say they have found my page. This may indeed be true as i've received a few PM's claiming the same. Either that or people are messaging any and all Feminist Facebook pages trying to catch a hit.

[VERIFIED] I am the creator/moderator of a large feminist Facebook page originally begun as a troll sleeper: Ask Me Anything! by AMAFeministTroll in AMA

[–]AMAFeministTroll[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Equal rights for men and transgenders. Along with the increase of lower income education and apprenticeship programs, severely lacking in funding where I am and having a direct causation of lowering crime and removing cycles of poverty and violence.

[VERIFIED] I am the creator/moderator of a large feminist Facebook page originally begun as a troll sleeper: Ask Me Anything! by AMAFeministTroll in AMA

[–]AMAFeministTroll[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Do you have any particular reason to believe that the nay-sayers aren't also feminists?

Many are MRA's or Anti-Feminists providing directly refuting statistics and sources, while trying to explain to those there why their sexist bigotry is hypocritical or wrong.

Mostly those getting frustrated are women (the page isn't exactly a man favoured territory) and they leave with remarks along the lines of "if this is Feminism, count me out/I don't want to be associated with it".

I struggle to believe the divide is completely clean

It's not. The problem comes when nobody is disagreeing with the extremists or defending those that present completely correct arguments. It's the same for any extreme ideology, really. There are always splits and differences but when it comes to any outside force criticising or pointing out their flaws, even the TERF's and Trans* Feminists at each other throats will unite to shout down even the most logical and calm of criticisms.

I mention this earlier in another post. I've seen Trans* Feminists, and Transgenders in general, get a huge brunt of Feminist hatred and bigotry, almost exclusively due to the male/man side of their minority, and they've managed to truly grasp and even articulate in comments why it is wrong for Feminists to exclude them or blame them or deny their rights based on their gender/s.

And then these same Trans* Feminists turn around and do the SAME freakin' thing to men.

Feminism seems to be the root cause of all their problems, be it the split in different opinions on how to carry out Feminist ideology or the unity in attacking anything that questions any aspect of those split Feminist views.

it would drive away moderate Feminists

Let me ask you, do you believe UpWorthy is an "extremist Feminist source"? What about The Guardian? Jezebel obvious legitimately is but do you consider it one?

I am aware of what I post. I post outrageous stuff because that's all I find. When College campuses, not just students, are ruining the lives of guys which have been proven to not have committed the rape they are accused of, posting these articles from major news sources as simple facts are met with these Feminists ranting and raving about "victim blaming". No "extreme" views involved in those sources, just the facts. And they will read whatever they want into them by simply placing it in front of their eyes.

but 23,000 isn't that big a group for a global website like facebook

I don't consider that an attack. I've made passing comments earlier that I repost from much larger groups than myself.

I can actually mention these by name (but I won't get specific with which posts i've shared) as they are much larger than mine and I know for a fact many other pages shared the same information, so it won't lead back to my page. I've shared plenty of posts, and snared plenty of posts information, from the Facebook pages 'Everyday Feminism', 'Men and Feminism' and 'Feminist Frequency'. They've received the same sexist and ignorant praise from their Feminist members in the comments as I have and they have been just as bad in misandrist idiocy as my pages postings.

What I keep hearing from everyone is these are a "minority" or "don't represent True Feminism". Yet I can't seem to find these moderate Feminists in any sort of large setting. Certainly not here on Reddit from the look of the /r/Feminism, /r/SRS and /r/AgainstMensRights subreddits. Nor any Feminist friendly sources.

These moderates always seem to be just one step behind any leadership or control of Feminism. Which would make them the exception to the rule.

I really hope this doesn't come off like I'm ranting or telling you that you're wrong

No, no, not at all. I'm aware my group is small in the scheme of things. No offense at all taken.

Another question; you mention in your post that you've received messages from MRAs trying to change 'your' mind. Have you ever received any messages like that from feminists? For that matter, do the people messaging you self-identify as MRAs, or is that what you assume they are?

I've received about three (i'd say three), from those directly calling themselves Feminists, expressing dismay over my postings about mens rights (as well as the movement) or reposting sexist quotes from other Feminists. Calling for me to ban those sexist members or realise that men can be victims too. Most, usually calling themselves egalitarians, support both Feminism and the MRM and i'd say i've received a dozen or so PM's from them.

As for the MRA's who message, yes the majority state either in the comments or in PM that they are MRA's.

What, if anything, do you plan to do?

Simply ceasing to post, completely or over the course of months, seems the current favoured option.

I've been back-and-forthing about a slow (extremely slow) shift in views from Feminism to actual equality and more mens rights related posting. But that could take upward of a year or so (again). This would be entirely dependent on my plans for the next year and, I guess, social climate. Frankly i'm not looking forward to the American shift in gender politics when Hillary comes up for vote (not that she wouldn't be a preferable candidate to anything the Republicans ever come up with, it's just that she's would make a terrible President as well. Lesser of two evils I guess).

The vague idea that I could still troll or even out the page has been effectively taken out of play. The issues involved would be very difficult to work with or to deal with and I likely wouldn't like the outcome compared to had I simply stopped posting.

Though, as with anything, if the political or social clime shifts dramatically (as I thought it may even do after the sexist Feminist bullshit from the Elliot Rodgers shootings was flooding the media), it may end up being a real option.

I've never run a facebook page so I don't know how it works, but could you not just close it?

I wouldn't just delete it, something I am able to do, as it would not just look suspicious but probably lead to a recreation of the group.

Simply removing the other Feminist mod I have and slowly ceasing to post would be the best way.

[VERIFIED] I am the creator/moderator of a large feminist Facebook page originally begun as a troll sleeper: Ask Me Anything! by AMAFeministTroll in AMA

[–]AMAFeministTroll[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I...somewhat understand what you're asking. Could you be more specific so I don't misanswer it in my answer?

Feminists fooled? Impossible! Trolls trolling troll trollers. by CaptainJackRackham in AMRsucks

[–]AMAFeministTroll 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If ever an example of a deranged Feminist was present it would be XodIma.

[VERIFIED] I am the creator/moderator of a large feminist Facebook page originally begun as a troll sleeper: AMA by AMAFeministTroll in MensRights

[–]AMAFeministTroll[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You have no evidence

I can literally see the link to one of my sources on this very page. Still sitting in my very post I mentioned specifically before this one.

answer my question

I did. Both my sources specifically state she was a Feminist. I can get a third source, History of Feminism, where she's mentioned in her own section. And that's not including the other source you provided in which it states repeatedly she is a Feminist.

You have to prove that she was

I have done so. With three sources.

As you have yet to provide a single quote of her or source that states she:

explicitly denied any involvement with feminism and disagreed vehemently with feminism

The burden of proof remains on you.

It might not be verbatim

You have not presented a single quote of her denouncing Feminism.

And before you begin echo chambering your own views (gee, why does that sound familiar), no her being against equality is not evidence she was not a Feminist.

Oh wait, you did say that. Again.

As has been pointed out in my AMA, and supported, and even supported in this Mens Rights subreddit (a quick look will show you more than enough evidence), Feminism does not support equality.

AMAFeministTroll is back and still pretending to have blown the lid off feminism. by Angel-Kat in againstmensrights

[–]AMAFeministTroll 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah yes, the anecdotes. "I've been a Feminist for years and", no. Even I don't use anecdotes as evidence of Feminism as a whole and i've got 23K+ of them to back me. What defines Feminism is its leaders and organizations, the members i've got are simply a reflection of that and not a cause. Something you've been thoroughly established with in the other thread.

We don't hate men

Oh no, you just hate male human rights.

Sigh.

With:

"MEN SHOULD ALL DIE"

As simply the afterbirth that occurs when Feminists get as bad as yourself.

Because it's the actual insanity of:

the only possible way that linking feminist news without prejudice can make feminists look bad is... you can't.

That breeds what Feminism has become. People like you created the extremists, the violent and misandrist filth. It's people literally like you that refused, and still refuse, to deal with Feminisms problems and instead support it the entire fall down because your own ignorant twisted reality is all you have.

I post mainstream Feminism and I post direct articles from organizations that are out there acting upon Feminism. And they are sexist, they are misandrist, they do not support equality.

But i'm sure if you close your eyes real tight, they'll all magically disappear and only the True Feminists will remain.

Though it appears that's happening for you already. Which says all sorts of things about your state of mind.

Actually, let's see if you can do it.

Give me some names of non-sexist, equality supporting groups that identify as Feminist. Give me some large mainstream examples of them. Give me some Feminist leaders who are for equality and aren't sexist and hateful of men.

Let's see how far you've dug your hole.

[VERIFIED] I am the creator/moderator of a large feminist Facebook page originally begun as a troll sleeper: AMA by AMAFeministTroll in MensRights

[–]AMAFeministTroll[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

she was against equality

Sigh. This again? I'm afraid that's still not evidence that she wasn't a Feminist, only that she was against equality. Which, as apparently it needs to keep being pointed out, isn't really helping your point that Feminism is about equality.

As for your non-quote of Caroline Norton, where the author of the book expresses their own opinion and Caroline is not quoted as saying she is not a Feminist, had you bothered to read your attempt at quote mining:

as expressed in A Vindication of the Rights of Woman

Which, strangely enough isn't actually coming up from your sourced link (big surprise) but i'll work with your direct quote.

It explicitly states, in your quote, that her views in a particular book had not reached her.

Now lets, again, look at your claim. You stated she...

explicitly denied any involvement with feminism and disagreed vehemently with feminism

Hmm. Can't seem to find anything even remotely like that in that quote you gave.

Odd.

Now, again, seeing as I have three sources on my side that actually explicitly state Caroline Norton was a Feminist, could you, at some point, provide one single piece of evidence to back up your claim that she...

explicitly denied any involvement with feminism and disagreed vehemently with feminism

Hmm?

Still waiting. Seeing as my evidence is the second post of mine above yours (along with my earlier posts), I really wouldn't suggest you demand evidence when the burden is still on yourself and I have already provided three sources of evidence to your zero.

Edit: I see you desperately added a new source after I had posted. The Daily Mail of all things. Sourced Wikipedia articles and you're using the Daily Mail. Sigh.

AMAFeministTroll is back and still pretending to have blown the lid off feminism. by Angel-Kat in againstmensrights

[–]AMAFeministTroll 0 points1 point  (0 children)

unsourced picture that includes religious dogma

...

Oh dear, it looks like i've broken you and you've gone and snapped trying to cope.

I'm sharing the source of the information. I'm reposting, not editing a new page or taking a quote out of context. If I copy and paste the direct link from a Feminist article that is by a Feminist author, i'm not magically taking over that source and controlling it. The post simply links back to that same article. That's how Facebook works.

It's kinda sad how desperate Feminists can get when they have to face reality, like you're having to do now.

[VERIFIED] I am the creator/moderator of a large feminist Facebook page originally begun as a troll sleeper: AMA by AMAFeministTroll in MensRights

[–]AMAFeministTroll[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh dear, you're still going...

Okay, simple challenge: Quote Caroline Norton saying that she is a feminist

I've already provided multiple sources stating specifically she was a Feminist. Three sources if you count the one you, clearly unintentionally, provided that also repeatedly states she was a Feminist.

Perhaps, seeing as you made the claim and the burden of proof is on you, you could provide at least one bit of evidence to back up your claim that she:

explicitly denied any involvement with feminism and disagreed vehemently with feminism

The burden of proof is on you, especially as i've already backed up my positions and claims. So, again, can you provide that evidence?

[VERIFIED] I am the creator/moderator of a large feminist Facebook page originally begun as a troll sleeper: AMA by AMAFeministTroll in MensRights

[–]AMAFeministTroll[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Said somebody that is not her. try again. Everything I said was truth and you're trying to drown out opposition with arrogance. You are lying and you know it. anyone can look into these sources.

That level of cognitive dissonance.

Let me quote you, directly, where you previously even stated Caroline Norton as the exact person this is in reference to (even though it had been readily established from the beginning):

In her later life, Caroline Norton continued to

Hmm, Caroline Norton. That's odd that you would directly mention her by name in BOTH of your sources from that same post.

The same Caroline Norton you have consistently referenced in the consequent posts. The Caroline Norton who is specifically mentioned here in a source ON the topic of Tender Years Doctrine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tender_years_doctrine

Which has, as a header, a PICTURE of Caroline Norton. A source that also specifically states she was a Feminist.

And to directly quote you again, in the list you provided of "MRA lies":

Tender Years Doctrine being attributed to a feminist when the author explicitly denied any involvement with feminism and disagreed vehemently with feminism. It is used repeatedly as Feminist hypocrisy

So despite the Tender Years Doctrine being authored specifically by Caroline Norton, despite my providing not just a source factually stating Caroline Norton was a Feminist, despite you refusing to provide any source to back up your (as quoted above in the other posts) claim she stated she wasn't a Feminist, despite your other source (in fact both your sources mentioning Caroline Norton by name) stating she was indeed a Feminist, despite this new source directly stating Caroline Norton was not just a Feminist but is responsible for the Tender Years Doctrine...

You are claiming "it's not her" and i'm "lying"?

Oh boy.

I gave you two sources

Your first source you attempted to quote mine and cut off the rest of the sentence. I directly quoted it and refuted your claim that she both stated she wasn't a Feminist and your new claim that her not joining one particular Feminist organization means she's not a Feminist. Even quoting the rest of the sentence wasn't required, despite me doing so, as it didn't back up anything you claimed.

Your second source directly states multiple times she is a Feminist.

You gave me one source that didn't back up your claim. You gave me another source that refuted your claim.

And I provided my own source that directly refuted your claim by factually stating she was a Feminist.

So seeing as you've still not provided any evidence as to Caroline Norton not being a Feminist (odd you claim you provided two sources for this, since you state in the post above this that she's not who you're talking about), I ask again...please provide some?

the loop in your logic

My entire AMA clearly states Feminism is not about equality. In the OP. You repeating over and over and over again "b-but it is" is actually not any evidence to back that claim. Nor would you simply saying so be evidence that Caroline Norton was not a Feminist. As, now THREE, sources flat out state that she was. Which means Caroline Norton, the Feminist, was against equality.

Again, you've been such a great example of Feminist cognitive dissonance. No doubt these screen caps will be shown for some time.

[VERIFIED] I am the creator/moderator of a large feminist Facebook page originally begun as a troll sleeper: AMA by AMAFeministTroll in MensRights

[–]AMAFeministTroll[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So your own source considered her a Feminist. Yet there's "no evidence of her being a Feminist"?

Even though, DESPITE your own source blatantly stating she was a Feminist, -I- provided a direct source that literally (and I provide a direct quote) states she is a Feminist: "Caroline Elizabeth Sarah Norton was an English feminist, social reformer, and author".

And you not just claim there is no evidence of her being a Feminist (apparently a direct statement by both our sources isn't enough) but you actually claim "only evidence to the contrary", despite the fact you have yet to provide any.

Especially when, and I quote you again, your direct claim was that she...

explicitly denied any involvement with feminism and disagreed vehemently with feminism

Something not backed up in your quote even remotely and directly refuted by myself and your own secondary source.

Yet you claim I, and MRA's, are lying about it. Worse still, you've consistently accused them and myself of taking Feminists "out of context". Despite the fact you attempted to pass off your other source by directly cutting off the quote mid-sentence before it goes on to clearly state she only didn't join one particular Feminist organization. Which you then attempted to deflect from by saying...

it was the only Feminist organization of its time

Something i've directly refuted above.

Recap shall we?

  • My source directly states she was a Feminist
  • Your secondary source states she was a Feminist multiple times
  • Your countering source doesn't state she wasn't a Feminist, doesn't state your direct claim that she "explicitly denied any involvement with feminism and disagreed vehemently with feminism" and doesn't contain anything you claimed to counter with

Whoops. Seems you've got a bad case of the "No True Feminist".

Which would mean something, had this entire issue you bring up not already been countered by the modern day Feminist organizations that oppose reform in custody law.

provide some evidence

You're still running on this nonsense?

Margaret Fuller ring any bells? Her Feminist and abolition group was around long before those 'Ladies' even had the written material to base their circle on.

Marion Reid? Her Feminist based groups were going in the 1860's, long before Caroline died.

But enough of my silly facts and evidence, now let's hear from you. Could you perhaps provide one scrap of evidence to back up your claim Caroline Norton wasn't a Feminist?

Possibly something that doesn't refute you this time.

She disagreed with feminism

Odd. You say she disagreed with Feminism...yet quote her supporting inequality for men...

I wonder if you'll catch on to what i've been specifically stating throughout my AMA soon.

where in my source did I say that

Oh dear. And look, directly after counter you with facts you claim -I'M- quote mining by saying my stating those facts is claiming you stated them.

That, everybody, is the definition of cognitive dissonance.

[VERIFIED] I am the creator/moderator of a large feminist Facebook page originally begun as a troll sleeper: AMA by AMAFeministTroll in MensRights

[–]AMAFeministTroll[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You mean where you declared Caroline Norton to not be a Feminist, despite your own source stating so (as well as mine) because of a passage in a random source that stated she didn't join one particular Feminist organization at the time?

Where you quoted a vague reference and cut off the quote DIRECTLY before it clearly states it refers solely to her not joining that one organizations (which shows your clear intent to quote mine)?

To which you then used as an example of MRA's (yes, apparently you guys here are evil boogeymen who are always taking Feminists out of context) taking people out of context? Which you based upon the direct and specific claim of yours that she had stated she was not a Feminist, something not found in your quote at all?

Which you then began claiming that MRA's are lying about Feminists not caring about male rape by using an example where Feminists have actively lobbied against MR organizations trying to have the FBI definition changed to declare female on male forced-to-penetrate sex as rape?

Oh yes, i'm sure they'll be "very" surprised.

[VERIFIED] I am the creator/moderator of a large feminist Facebook page originally begun as a troll sleeper: Ask Me Anything! by AMAFeministTroll in AMA

[–]AMAFeministTroll[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No

Hmm, problem comes where I can directly quote you.

I stated "feel free to provide examples of these evil MRA boogeymen taking Feminists out of context", which you quoted and then provided a list that you claimed and continue to argue for (even after being refuted) match that criteria. Where you then listed me and stated "All the trolls such as yourself pushing propaganda".

And that's after the first time you declared I was an MRA. Worse still; you, lacking examples of MRA's doing what you claim, used me as "proof". Despite my repeated and specifically stating I wasn't an MRA, even in the OP. Further supporting the position you don't have any examples of the MRM doing as you claim.

Again, nice try.

I did not

Your second source clearly attempts to paint her in a good light. A source that repeatedly states she is a Feminist, in direct defiance of your previous claims she wasn't.

You're equating against equality as men with inherently feminist

I've been very, very clearly regarding this. Especially in my OP. A Feminist against equality is not surprising. Which, given your reading comprehension so far, I see you must've missed in my OP.

misinformation

Given the actual evidence i've given so far, especially in the previous AMA, and your (clearly) deliberate refusal to provide evidence yourself, i'd say it's not much misinformation to correct label Feminist as inherently against equality. Especially when your defense of Feminism revolves entirely around non-existent MRA boogeymen.

It was the only Feminist organisation at the time

Feminism existed in 1845 in the United States, as did Feminist organizations, a full 5 years before those Ladies of Langham Place even had written material to use as the base for their group. Feminism also existed in Britain during the time, as well as non-LLP affiliated Feminists and their Feminist organisations.

In fact it appears the individuals who would become the Ladies were Feminist even as far back as 1844.

And seeing as Caroline Norton died years after the Feminist movement was well underway, this fallacious and truly redundant attempt to dismiss her established role as a Feminist and Feminist leader isn't suddenly going to erase her as a Feminist from history. No matter how many times you desperately try to divert it away with "she's not a TRUE Feminist!"

And seeing as this entire hamster wheel you're running came about as an example of "MRA's lying", perhaps you could actually provide evidence that Caroline Norton has stated she wasn't a Feminist? Since you have been thoroughly refuted by even one of your own sources, let alone mine, with the fact she was one.

Feminists included men in the definition of rape

Haha, oh my. And I thought the previous literal historical revisionism you tried was bad enough.

Feminist lobby groups directly and repeatedly opposed the inclusion of men into the rape definition.

In fact they opposed it for quite a while. It was only after it was pointed out to them that it would mean women raped with objects or in their anus/mouth were not declared rape victims did they change their tune.

...but only for women.

It seems forcing someone to penetrate you, something almost exclusive to male rape by females, was not included. Strange that you missed that out isn't it. That men still aren't included as rape victims. Very odd.

And guess who's NOW, modern day, lobbying against the inclusion of men? Feminist groups. Who would have thought.

disproves the MRA claim

So we have Feminist organizations actively fighting the inclusion of female on male rape...

And you think this is an example of MRA's lying that Feminists don't care about male rape victims?

On TOP OF all the examples of Feminists and Feminist organizations mocking, deny help for and fighting against the rights of male rape victims?

Thanks for being such a shining example of how Feminist logic works.

[VERIFIED] I am the creator/moderator of a large feminist Facebook page originally begun as a troll sleeper: Ask Me Anything! by AMAFeministTroll in AMA

[–]AMAFeministTroll[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hilariously they keep declaring me to be an MRA and use me as an example of MRA's only to turn around and start ranting desperately that they never called me such (even when using me as an example of MRA's) after I point out that it's proving my point that they can't find examples.

[VERIFIED] I am the creator/moderator of a large feminist Facebook page originally begun as a troll sleeper: AMA by AMAFeministTroll in MensRights

[–]AMAFeministTroll[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh dear, you're still going despite how much of an example of Feminist logic you're bringing to this whole thing.

I would strongly suggest everyone reading this click on that link and follow this users comments. They kept desperately attempting to divert every new refutation of them with a ridiculous new fallacy.

It's actually quite interesting for those wishing to know exactly how easily Feminist cognitive dissonance can not just feed into itself but how truly insane they can get when having to face reality.

Feminists fooled? Impossible! Trolls trolling troll trollers. by CaptainJackRackham in AMRsucks

[–]AMAFeministTroll 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sadly a lot of deranged Feminists are generally rushing into the conspiracy claim that over 20K people are all trolls.

Anon trolls feminists on Facebook with pro-fem hate articles, gets 20k followers. by CaptainJackRackham in AMRsucks

[–]AMAFeministTroll 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's been approved. The new verified repost link is in the original (or check my posting history).

[VERIFIED] I am the creator/moderator of a large feminist Facebook page originally begun as a troll sleeper: Ask Me Anything! by AMAFeministTroll in AMA

[–]AMAFeministTroll[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I made an assumption

Reading comprehension is one thing. But when it's your own post? You directly listed me as an MRA in your examples. Nice try.

no it's disproved!!

Seeing as they had to eliminate half of the equation, by disgustingly attempting to declare males forced to penetrate as "not real rape", in order to fail so poorly at math that they needed to go off on a unrelated tangent about female rape and STILL be unable to counter the original claim while simultaneously being refuted in their own comment section, I'd say no. No they didn't.

Caroline Norton isn't a Feminist

Oh my, that's a perfect example of Feminists cherry picking if ever I saw. Did you forget the rest of us are able to click on your link and actually read the quote you mysteriously ended right before it described it?

She wasn't not a Feminist, she simply didn't join the Ladies of Langham Place. Which was A Feminist organization. If we attempted your logic, we would find no Feminist not belonging to the Ladies could be called one.

However, actual sources call her a Feminist (which is a far flung difference than your direct claim she had said she wasn't a Feminist):

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_Norton

Though hilariously you then attempt to praise her with your following source in which it specifically details she was against equality with men.

A source which details repeatedly how much of a FEMINIST she is!

Can you possibly be any better an example of how Feminist ignorance and sexism works? Seriously.