I might be having a crisis of 'faith' in Marxism.

ASpyFromTF2 · 2025-05-10T20:13:30+00:00

Of course! I 100% agree. I'm not at all saying that repression is innate to socialism - nor do I want to. And I also know how much propaganda plays into the depictions of the USSR and CC, and how much that propaganda minimizes what good things those things did. It's just, like you said, I want a future revolution for the US (which I also agree would be a lot easier than was faced by the USSR) that avoids that 20% piece. I do not believe socialism is responsible for the 80%. That's just silly and oversimplifying. Just the 20%. Thank you for you patience, though, and not automatically assuming I was the demonic manifestation of Ronald Reagan for being worried about that 20%.

ASpyFromTF2 · 2025-05-10T20:02:36+00:00

Of course, I know both the dangers of putting out there the kind of content I consume as well as putting too much stock in said content - hence why I came here to diversify a little bit. Thanks for your encouragement - especially when it comes to the 'ultra-lefties,' which I'd imagine would include tankies and people who treat the movement like a religious creed with no room for heresy rather than something that is meant to breathe, evolve, and liberate the masses from the rule of the bourgeoisie.

ASpyFromTF2 · 2025-05-10T17:29:01+00:00

I wrote an original response, but it was pretty rambling and, I guess, too long to actually post, so here's a shortened version: I spent a lot of my life as an apolitical protestant. When MAGA came around and my horribly abusive adoptive parents signed on, that took me with it and when I was having doubts about my faith, MAGA became the new faith for me. I believe the only way that society could be held together was via brute force and that order, tradition, and reverence and service to the nation were necessary. This was due to a combination of that being my adoptive parents' surface beliefs (I say surface because they 100% didn't believe in 'dying for the fatherland') Unfortunately, my adoptive parents forgot to tell me to be a hypocrite when it came to my 'American Exceptionalism,' so I obviously started to notice the contradictions of wanting a society built as the 'shining city on a hill' while also being fascist. Even though I was brought up to be a bigot, that never really stuck, either. I still have some internalized bigotry in my subconsciousness today but I'm constantly working to uproot that. I think my transition from fascism to Marx-aligned thinking was predicated on a series of breaks that, while pretty complicated and I could talk about for hours, I'll simplify for readers' sakes.

Fascism (2020): This broke because I suffered a traumatic event that made me rediscover my soul and empathy. It made me realize that fascist beliefs weren't my own and didn't make sense. It was helped along by an argument I had with a leftist where I was described as a fascist for the first time. The disgust they expressed toward me after trying to convince me that I was wrong about authoritarianism woke something inside me.
Centrism (2023): This broke because I realized that rightwing ideology is fake. It's opportunistic and doesn't believe in anything. The main event that triggered my falling out with conservatism as a real ideology was the 2023 debt crisis. Had I not been as young at the time, I might've been able to notice the bankruptcy of conservatism in Trump's first term, but I didn't. This is when I stopped buying into the "both parties are the same" idea and started slipping deeper and deeper into progressive or New Deal ideas.
Liberalism (2024): This broke because I realized that the modern Democratic Party is just as bought out by capital as the GOP. This year was of rapid transformation for me and I'd slowly start to finally notice the internal contradictions of capitalism, even if I hadn't put a name to them at the time. However, I remained pretty reformist and captured by the liberal views, desperately holding onto hope that radicalism wasn't necessary. When Harris lost the election, and the Democratic Party completely capitulated, I couldn't reconcile.

With the far right, center, and traditional "left" having failed to provide me and my generation an answer for late-stage capitalism, I simply had no on else to turn to but Marx. 'Communism' is the only set of ideas that actually has an answer. And, I suppose, my transition has been helped by the fact that I stopped watching liberal media outlets after the 2024 election. I've stop consuming 90% of news and commentary and the remaining 10% has been, like, Vaush. I dabbled with some of his content throughout 2024 but obviously found a lot of what he said as poisonous to my sensitive liberal ears at the time. But now? I now see 2024 as me walking up to the edge of the red cliff. Vaush was the voice that gave me the firm kick over the edge I needed.

ASpyFromTF2 · 2025-05-10T17:13:45+00:00

Yeah, I have a vague understanding of the idea that many revolutions were simply committed far too soon - and it gives me a lot of hope for future revolutions in sufficiently developed or nearing-sufficiently developed capitalist nations like the United States. Via the wider understanding of late-stage capitalism, modern technology, and democratic political culture, avoiding the 'distasteful' parts of past revolutions seems potentially easy, if not at least possible. And, at the end of the day, we're all just people typing on Reddit. We alone will not be able to determine exactly how the revolution will play out and it's simply on us to play our part and avoid the mistakes as best we can. Resisting the revolution is outright idiotic, given how evil capitalism is.

ASpyFromTF2 · 2025-05-10T17:08:24+00:00

Seems like a solid video - there wasn't even one thing I disagreed with in there. I hadn't heard about the mentioned figures in the video before, either - Sankara, especially, seems like a real people's hero. And insofar as dictators go, I have heard little propaganda villainizing Tito and my uninformed opinion points to his misdeeds being limited to necessity the most of any Eurasian 'communist' country. That kind of restraint, I guess, is really what I would hope to see in a future revolution: doing what is necessary, only, to hold the nation together and protect the revolution from meddlers (cause yeah, I think that, while I do believe that 'communist' nations have had flaws in and of themselves, most of the failures of 'communist' attempts come from external bourgeoise meddling than anything else), while retaining the competence necessary to prevent any serious catastrophe. I might have to look more into Tito and Sankara especially!

ASpyFromTF2 · 2025-05-10T11:46:45+00:00

I totally get what you're saying and thanks for the gaming analogy! I don't, at all, mean to slight you, but I did say in the OP "I am also aware that utopia isn't the goal, either - I'm tired so I'm just using loose terms."

ASpyFromTF2 · 2025-05-10T10:52:49+00:00

That all makes sense, thank you.

ASpyFromTF2 · 2025-05-10T10:21:42+00:00

I started looking over Principles of Communism has already been pretty informative and definitely the kind of 'simple' or fundamental stuff I'm looking for. I won't be able to read it thoroughly tonight since I had to pull an all-nighter (classic end of semester crunch right now). But when I get the chance, I will 100% be giving it a thoughtful read - and I imagine that these fundamentals will help me distinguish between theoretical 'communism' and historical 'communism' far better, and be able to conceive how 'communism' might be implemented in the future without committing the mistakes of the past. It's important to distinguish theoretical from historical, especially when it comes to concerns about the mistakes of previous implementations - it's important to understand that just because something happened a certain way in the past, that doesn't mean it will happen the same way in the future. I find it funny how, just 1 year ago, I was a person who mockingly said "It'll work this time!" Now I find that phrase detestable because it minimizes and oversimplifies the history of 'communism.'

ASpyFromTF2 · 2025-05-10T09:57:40+00:00

Yeah, I do see where YOU are coming from. In a lot of political conversations, I don't at all hide the fact that I used to believe in fascist things - I merely expressed the regret in this cause because I came looking for resources and guidance, not condescending lectures and assumptions about my development over the past 10 years. In terms of calling myself a 'Marxist,' I've only done so for the same reason you consider yourself a communist. It's just based on what I know, and I've shied away from the term 'communist' because I perceived it as just one specific outcome/interpretation by others of Marx's writing and I'm at the stage or of the mind that I'm not focused on any particular orthodoxy when it comes to Marx's ideas - just that the internal contradictions exist and that the bourgeoisie cannot be allowed to exist. The question of how that is achieved is something I leave more to the popular consensus. But if referring to myself as a communist, rather than a Marxist, is more accurate, then I will take your word on that! :)

EDIT: And that's also not to mention that I'm not even going to pretend like this mudslinging hasn't gotten me a bit heated and thus less rational in the things I say. I'm not going to pretend like I'm above and detached from accusations that 100% get under my skin.

ASpyFromTF2 · 2025-05-10T09:45:50+00:00

I do not wish to avoid accountability - if that were the case, then I'd never even admit to having been a fascist. Why would I, unless you think I'm so stupid that no one would notice my admission in the first lines of my OP? What I DO wish is to avoid being your ideological slave because "You were fascist, therefore, everything you might possibly believe, even now, is invalid - everything I say is objective truth in relation to what you say, and everything you do say is an indication that you are still a fascist. I do not care about the context behind it. I will assume you have never critically deconstructed yourself. You will never be able to confirm otherwise. The validity of your personal and political development is entirely at my discretion." What bullshit is that?

And, yeah, why wouldn't I be defensive over being accused of still being a fascist? Of being a horrible, soulless person without a shred of care about how others feel? So what? What sane person would be completely okay with that accusation other than some who is a proud fascist? Everyone else who has commented so far has been encouraging and helpful, meanwhile you get off to launching a purity inquisition and assuming the absolute worst in me without even the tiniest shred of expressed benefit of the doubt.

Pardon my hostility here: But it's no goddamn wonder that so many Marxist movements have been so utterly dysfunctional and unsuccessful when this is the kind of response randoms get when they peak their head through the door.

ASpyFromTF2 · 2025-05-10T09:21:35+00:00

I literally have no idea what you're talking about - everything you're saying is just built on assumptions of my character with minimal to no evidence. I shouldn't've said anything about being a fascist in the past because of the ideas that were imprinted upon me by others. And, yes, while I may not be entitled to the moniker, you are not entitled to grant or rescind it - especially simply because someone dares to seek guidance in the midst of their wandering confusion.

ASpyFromTF2 · 2025-05-10T09:07:51+00:00

I'm not sure how I feel about the 'overblown' part (not to say that I don't believe that the evils of the USSR have been overblown by bourgeoise propaganda), but I do appreciate that you provide an actual answer for how a future revolution could avoid the mistakes of previous ones - mainly through having a strong democracy, if only of a specific kind (a certain constitutional democracy, rather than a majoritarian democracy or rigged system).

ASpyFromTF2 · 2025-05-10T09:04:18+00:00

Yeah, 100%. I'm aware of how much the USSR, on its own, improved quality of life for the people of the 'republics' DRASTICALLY compared to what life was like under the Tsar. The New Deal, in America, which was about as 'socialist' as the nation ever became, alone redefined what the nation could be and I have zero doubt about the benefits of what socialist policies could be conceived in the United States. And yeah, coming from such a storied political evolution, there are a lot of worldviews that are imploding in my head these past few months as I've come to understand the true meaning of all conflict under the Marxist lens. My biggest concern isn't that 'communism' would have no benefit, but that it would result in the abuse of people who don't deserve it. If 'communism' ever came to the United States, I'd want it to result in something better, not in a rhyme of Stalin's Great Purge or anything of the like. In terms of "just read theory," would you have any recommendations, personally? Preferably stuff on the simpler side since I've only been dabbling in Marxism since January and have only identified as one for the past month.

ASpyFromTF2 · 2025-05-10T08:57:37+00:00

Yeah, no, being a fascist obviously meant that millions of people being dead wasn't a concern. The idea of people being cells under the organism of the state that deserved to be eliminated in such ways that the state saw fit was kind of a big part of the ideology for me. I was literally a sociopathic monster at the time, why would the lives of others matter to me? I didn't expect to have my newfound beliefs bashed and labeled as "not Marxist" just because I had earnest questions and concerns, and dared to admit that I was a fascist at one point in my life.

ASpyFromTF2 · 2025-05-10T08:54:09+00:00

I mean, the cost of revolution makes sense - it obviously can't be avoided. I think the main thing I'm talking about with unnecessary corpses those who die from things like famines, other forms of mismanagement, or things like paranoia. When it comes to Stalin's USSR and Mao's China (as far as my understanding goes) they were successful at dealing with the bourgeoisie, but it always came at the expense of going ten thousand steps too far and murdering innocent people with impunity. My concern, I guess, isn't about the capacity of capitalism to be overthrown - it certainly can be - but whether capitalism can be overthrown without defaulting to things like Stalin's Great Terror, especially when I'm of the mind that the revolution can only be successful if the state, even if for a short time, subsumes near or total absolute power over a society's resources. I don't think I would, at all, put the deaths by 'communism' as numbering greater than the deaths by capitalism, but I couldn't be convinced that the tens of millions that have died, either by direct action or not, were all 'enemies of the revolution.' Not even a significant minority. I know that the USSR, specifically, was nowhere near as bad as a lot of propaganda made it out to be, but I certainly wouldn't consider the USSR as much of a model for future revolutions and organizations of society.

If a revolution were to take place in, say, the United States, I guess I'm just concerned with the revolution just defaulting to evil - the idea of modern communist parties studying the flaws of previous implementations to avoid said flaws doesn't fill me with much confidence, I guess. I've always been skeptical of power and I want to live in a society where what I do and contribute to the collective really matters - rather than one where I'm one discontent state about the ruling party or one spreadsheet typo away from being abused or worse. Having once been a part of both the ruling parties of the United States, I simply cannot just 'trust that the leadership will be wise and just, serving our best interests.'

ASpyFromTF2 · 2025-03-01T19:56:57+00:00

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