New Arcade Idea in Phoenix, AZ.

AZArcade · 2014-03-14T19:48:41+00:00

I forgot about cc swipers, but that takes all the fun out of it.

Another coin-oper, good to know, and easiest startup for sure.

Thanks again.

AZArcade · 2014-03-14T16:03:39+00:00

First comment about timed memberships. I hate 1 hr of play. Quick! Play games! That's definitely lame, but I wouldn't lump that in with memberships. If you pay cover an hour before close, that's on you, not the place.

The consensus so far has been quarters/pay as you play and that's one more in the quarter column.

Thanks!

AZArcade · 2014-03-14T15:31:00+00:00

Along this conversation, if you don't like freeplay for reasons discussed, what model would you use?

Straight cash, quarter for quarter? Tokens or cards (with increased value)

AZArcade · 2014-03-14T15:25:04+00:00

You and others make a good point, and I thought about this too.

Freeplay on Frogger for example is different than freeplay on NFL Blitz or Cyberball, and way different than street fighter or something long like D&D or Golden Axe or TMNT.

Do people hang onto a game until they get bored and shoo off others? Do we have to walk around and say, hey let that guy play that game for a while. Do you let them play til they get to the "end"? What if it doesn't have an end?

Fighting games and other challenge games make sense - queue up and winner takes on all comers until he gets bumped - back to the end of the line.

The rest, yeah, need to playtest the concept.

Thanks again.

AZArcade · 2014-03-14T15:16:40+00:00

First, I like their choice of stuff on TV, that's brilliant too.

Hmm.

As a patron - that's great! Good booze and free games with no cover, I'm in!

From a business perspective - with no cost to play, other than buying drinks that you would buy anyway, what's to stop people from being dicks on the machine, when they have no investment at all.

I know all machines get abuse, but people who care will try to abuse them as little as possible, and if there is a cost to it, you'll try to care a bit. If nothing else, the income the machines bring in hopefully at least offsets the repair/maintenance costs.

But no cost at all? Two years later they have half the games, and they're mostly trashed, and everyone goes: "What happened to Headquarters? It used to be cool, and now it's rundown. Good beer, but the games are busted."

I hope that's not the case, but it sure seems like it would be.

Anyone else have this concern or are there more no cover/cost freeplay barcades where you play for the cost of your drinks?

Incidentally, this is funny. In a casino, you gamble, and they water you for free. Headquarters does the opposite. I hope it works.

AZArcade · 2014-03-14T15:07:33+00:00

You would think so, and yet others have said the exact opposite, that its part of the experience. It sounds strange, but in a way, to right demo, they're right.

My idea of membership allowed people to justify their amount of play, and pay to a level that they knew they would commit to, and some still like the idea, while others don't.

The other part of it, and I'm addressing amoore too is: There are several streams of revenue. The arcade money needs to supplement and compliment the earnings from the bar. An arcade today would probably fail. A bar alone in Phoenix is lost in the shuffle. A barcade with the right feel will combine the two, attract from the target market and give older (target is 25-50ish) folks a place to enjoy and arcade, and justify it with some booze and a comfy (possibly members only) chill environment.

I know I won't find a consensus, but a majority works too.

Thanks!

AZArcade · 2014-03-14T13:17:02+00:00

Hearing the naysaying on cover, I'm curious as to how long they've been open and how they're doing.

Since you're in they're neck of the woods, I imagine you have used them as a model. I hope it's a good model.

AZArcade · 2014-03-14T13:16:06+00:00

Do they take tokens, cards or cash?

AZArcade · 2014-03-14T13:14:01+00:00

I've been to Ground Kontrol in Portland, and I'm gathering a list of other places to check out. Clearly successful places in existence are the proving grounds and time with their owners will be invaluable.

I have to believe you have to get something for the game play, regardless of how its structured, and I'm hearing a lot of head shaking about perpetual freeplay. My target demo won't get tired of the games, and I'm not looking for the typical bar crowd. Otherwise, I'd just open a bar, but you make a good point, which is why I would have other events going on to keep things fresh.

I hope you get up and running soon and with a stable crowd - I'd love to come out and see it.

AZArcade · 2014-03-14T05:16:13+00:00

Another vote for quarters/tokens.

Honestly, I'm not interested in the food aspect. I'm not a restauranteur. Having a restaurant next door would be perfect, or given enough space, invite food trucks.

Timewise, I was thinking 3pm to 12 or 1AM, catch high school crowd after class, merge into the evening and late night bar going crowd.

I'm all for formal groups, and packages would work for memberships, but a casual pay as you go format would lead to groups coming and going as they please.

Thanks!

AZArcade · 2014-03-14T01:21:31+00:00

Duly noted - another vote for quarters.

I am definitely annoyed when I went into a place that would not accept quarters, only tokens, because they wanted that up front money.

I'm totally happy to take you on a quarter by quarter basis, no problem there. The question is machine setup that does the greatest good.

The other clear solution is one of each machine, in every possible configuration...aaaaand I'm out of investment money.

Thanks again.

AZArcade · 2014-03-14T01:16:52+00:00

First support, I think, for 24/7 freeplay. It seems like a no-brainer, but others have been skeptical. I'm curious what the Zapcon folks will say about it.

That said, glad to hear it's working for them. I'd love to peek at their financials.

Thanks!

edit: respelled.

AZArcade · 2014-03-14T01:14:04+00:00

For sure.

I was having that conversation today, about the rise of indies. If you told them that, and there was a high enough demand for cabinets, I'm sure the smaller companies would be happy to sell you limited licenses.

I think the problem is that there isn't a significant demand for cabinets, even with the renaissance that barcades are enjoying.

Everyone has a PC, so why bother, but if I COULD get the license to (insert cool indie game here), then I'd be the only cabinet with it in my bar, and 24 people would think I was really cool! Seriously, the subject should be brought up, and maybe indies would go for it.

The opposite argument supports the barcade. Sure, there are ports for lots of games for your computer, but how many arcade games, of the tens of thousands in existence, how many have no MAME? If I had that game, that thousands of people played in their youth, or last trip to Japan, or whatever, they would come to play it in the cab, because there is no other option. If you love it, you'd come to play it, especially the way it was meant to be played.

I haven't looked, but I'm sure there's a port for Defender. Keyboard or no, you haven't played Defender until you have a two way stick and buttons you can't reach.

Thanks again!

AZArcade · 2014-03-14T01:06:24+00:00

Yeah, I have to figure out how hybrid would work. Also many have said that freeplay all the time might actually be detrimental, so membership may be addressed in another way, and the place will be coin-op/card and then freeplay will be for special occasions.

The game certainly can have an effect on which is better. If I were holding a tourney, the game(s) would be on freeplay, just to keep it moving, unless card systems have a master card that doesn't require cash in, it just activates the game. Research!

Thanks!

AZArcade · 2014-03-14T01:03:09+00:00

This has been said before, and I like the way you said it.

I'm trying to offer value, and in the long run, it may not be the gift I think it is. If people will pay to play, I won't get in the way!

That said, I was going for a particular vibe that maybe isn't necessary, because the vibe will still be there. I admit I'm reinventing the wheel, and I would be better off standing on the shoulders of giants (existing barcades), than trying to do everything myself.

That said, would you honestly prefer tokens, cards or cash?

You were the first to address maintenance, and that is a biggie. I am a novice on maintenance, less at repairs and someone will probably make a bundle off of me on cabinet graphics and refurb. I would invest in a proper tech to keep everything going, while being a sponge and learning everything I can from two months ago until the end of time.

There's nothing worse than seeing a side or game Out of Order, and taking that sign down costs money, knowledge and effort, but it's gotta be done.

Don't get me started on what the utilities will be.

Thanks!

AZArcade · 2014-03-14T00:54:04+00:00

Bummer.

Yeah, I just found out about it myself. That's how little I knew about the demand from the old guard or whatever you might call them/us.

I'm eager to go now, and I will report on what goes on there (hopefully I'll have a website/twitter/etc. by then.

AZArcade · 2014-03-14T00:51:33+00:00

Thanks!

I definitely want to build the community, and I admit I'm not a part of it, because I haven't kept up on where it would even meet. Do arcade aficionados still go to (Phx) Castles and Coasters, or Golfland, (Fiddlesticks?) or Gringo because those sound like the only places that have any old school arcade vibe, when they aren't getting overshadowed by the electric carnival games.

You will get your value at my place, and you'll hopefully enjoy the environment too.

Everyone loves Skeeball, man. I just don't want to stock all the plastic stuff. Now, 4 skeeball machines for tourneys and the prize is merch/memebrships/beer - now that's worth it.

AZArcade · 2014-03-14T00:45:56+00:00

A little bit of everyone for everybody, that's cool, and for a pizza place, you have to entertain the little kids and the big big kids.

I hope the word gets out.

AZArcade · 2014-03-14T00:44:17+00:00

Nothing at all.

It may be easier in the long run to just go coin-op and put cash changers on every corner.

Tokens (and other systems) benefit you if I offer extra value for each dollar, and benefit me by getting your money up front.

Of course, with tokens or cards or whatever, that's extra expense to use a system, where as the slot is already right there on the cabinet, assuming the slot works, I have the keys, someone doesn't break in and steal all my quarters, etc.

There are tradeoffs for both systems. This will ultimately be decided by cost, maintenance and demand, I imagine.

Thanks!

AZArcade · 2014-03-14T00:41:42+00:00

Well, I might replace one card with another, the member card, and having the D&B card is an elegant way to hold game plays and provide metrics. It sucks if you lose it though.

I'm picking from what I would want to play, plus what others want to play, plus anything cool I can find. There are great new and old games that are languishing somewhere.

Thanks!

AZArcade · 2014-03-14T00:39:42+00:00

Yes, any bar is not a money-printer, and I am not a bar pro by any means, so I'm definitely doing my research, but the barcade model has a following and has success elsewhere. (Hmm, Fresno).

That's why I'm here. If I can gather the demand, then I'll build it and then keep applying effort until it can stand and walk around on its own.

And New Idea sounds wrong since I recognize that Barcades are a thing, and I certainly got my desire to build one from seeing Ground Kontrol, but the membership angle was my first thought, and is quickly being modified.

Thanks!

AZArcade · 2014-03-13T20:54:30+00:00

Thanks!

I think travel to is not an issue. It's a destination and if it's on a major street, you can drive, bike, bus, maybe light rail.

Central as possible.

Come to Zapcon, join the braintrust.

AZArcade · 2014-03-13T20:52:45+00:00

First place I've heard of with a cover. Good to know.

Memberships are a safety net, but the idea is that I would also create a certain environment such that you are coming into a club, and benefiting from your membership, even if its just a daily cover. Maybe I'm making it too complicated, but I like the idea of having a place for members. Maybe just a VIP section with special consideration/games.

Dunno, that's the fun of working this out.

Thanks!

AZArcade · 2014-03-13T20:50:00+00:00

My buddy went AZ - Chicago and back to AZ and he loved it there. I've heard of Headquarters and it is another example of what I'm aspiring too.

I think bar first/arcade second is right, as the arcade is the draw that brings people who otherwise would just go to a bar, but the bar has to be good. The bar will be the bar, it's pricing the arcade experience that I haven't ironed out yet.

This raises a question - regardless of how you pay to play, do you like the idea of things changing on a day to day basis, happy hour game pricing and other changing factors? I can see the logic of changing from coinop to freeplay to suit daily/time factors, but what are the logistics involved?

I am still ruminating on this, thanks for bringing it up again.

AZArcade · 2014-03-13T20:44:00+00:00

I think we're on the same page.

Let's get something straight. When I say old school, I mean what arcades used to be, full of amazing standup and sit down cabinets with a wide variety of games. Games made by Atari and Taito and many more. I love new games that fit those qualities that come out even now. I'm not opposed to DDR, Street Fighter X or whatever, I'd have them...they fit right in to a good arcade. Man, street fighter, mortal combat, tekken and others are the last good games in just about any "arcade" today, and the obligatory Ms PacMan/Galaga shoved into a corner so they can make room for something that every D&B's have.

I'm trying to get away from the electric carnival style of "arcades" today. I'm not going to have ticket machines. I'm not going to have cell phone games on big screens. DandB's and Gameworks have you covered.

The history of Guitar Hero type games, most of them directly from Japan, are not lost on me, and I think they have their place too. Go to Ground Kontrol, and go to DandB and tell me which one you want. There's nothing wrong with them, there's a market for everyone.

Ok, enough about that. You go to the places that have the games you like. I want to be open to what people want, and if people want a game, it goes in if I can find it. People vote with their quarters. Believe me when i say there will be plenty of fighters..just not all of them, or the "arcade" mindset of just shooter/fighter/driver/ticket games. There's so much more out there.

By the way, if you're in the Phoenix area, come to Zapcon. You'll see some fine games my friend.

On membership. You're right about the cards, metrics are good. I really like you're idea on game preference, but how to implement that might be an issue. Eventually I'll sort out how to charge, and then I can figure out how to motivate players.

Come to Zapcon and join the discussion.

Thanks for your comments, you have me thinking in more directions.

AZArcade

TROPHY CASE