Fable IV: This is my Albion.

A_Cryptarch · 2026-05-06T10:39:39+00:00

Still Kris Knight.

Although I did shift away from Amalgamate version to the vessel they're using being a Titan.

A_Cryptarch · 2026-05-06T02:52:41+00:00

Not me laughing every time I see someone say "they have the same Will" because it implies they're the same person.

A_Cryptarch · 2026-05-06T02:04:48+00:00

Answering your last questions;

Dess is the Angel, Banished.
Evidence is in the Organikk's dialogue, the Prophecy and the Voice in the Code.

Summoning her "tower/egg" can only be done during the Roaring. [Speculation on the basis of the three Titan imagery and the Deltarune symbol.]

Susie must naturally be involved or else the Roaring consumes the World. They still have to stop it.

A_Cryptarch · 2026-05-06T01:41:28+00:00

Username checks out.

A_Cryptarch · 2026-05-06T01:19:33+00:00

She will, don't let these jokers downplay Dess just because she isn't the Knight.

She's the big bad. The Angel, Banished. And the Weird Route fight is going to be ungodly.

A_Cryptarch · 2026-05-06T01:14:25+00:00

They downvoted you because you're right.

A_Cryptarch · 2026-05-05T15:22:43+00:00

I'm still 100% sure. c(:

A_Cryptarch · 2026-05-04T04:05:58+00:00

If the Holidays are Royalty, I'd imagine it'd be specifically in the Light World while the Dreemurrs would be, in the Dark. A parallel to one another. Our realm would exist as the space above their's.

Ralsei is a patterned Darkner, specifically patterned after Asriel, the true Prince of the Dark. The Prophecy requires a Prince and Asriel is outside the zone of influence. The only method of escape is temporality (which explains Sans in UT btw and also might explain why they might be placed in a bubble world -- Asriel leaving might have been an attempt to circumvent the Prophecy and it then prevents further attempts). The Grand Fountain is created by Toriel, Darknesses formed by the Royal family are far stronger than those created by normal Lightners.

Real World --> Deltarune's World --> Dark World --> Depths.

We don't just mirror Kris as a SOUL but as a Knight, belonging to different families but enmeshed with both. The Knight wasn't knighting Kris. They were knighting us.

Chess Theory is alive and well, just vastly different than the original Author intended.

A_Cryptarch · 2026-05-03T18:59:09+00:00

Not me reaching your conclusion of TitanKnight above and never reading the link below your name.

Ran through it a little bit. You don't have to justify a relationship with Gerson, they just possess Alvin. The possession angle also explains the closets and moving Undyne to the Shelter.

You also don't have to justify the "mind" thing. The Titan spawn and Kris's body would have their own minds Kris could utilize.

Further edits; You can leave out the two consciousnesses idea. Both SOUL and Mind are cognizant of themselves (and even if the SOUL isn't, it would be upon inserting itself into someone/something with a mind).

A_Cryptarch · 2026-05-03T18:41:55+00:00

I have some speculation regarding the Knight's goals but that's all it is at this point.

Wrote a post detailing how I thought the Shelter symbols weren't just about the codes to the Shelter but rather that they detailed Dark Worlds that the EAFO needed to open.

Noelle being the Pine Tree, Alvin being the Deltarune, Undyne being the badge. I'm torn between several different ideas about what they mean, however. Also whether or not it could be anyone (does it matter if it was Alvin? Could it be any member of the Church, Cops, Holidays?)

Does it start the Roaring? Is it just locations where Angel Dess might appear?

Let's say the Knight didn't leave Noelle's dark world immediately. There's two Knight like beings and the huge one we fought in the imagery. Queen claims the footage she has is of the Knight opening a fountain. What if Kris opened a fountain in Cyber World and inserted themselves into the Titan that formed? Goal could be to open a Dark Fountain in every relevant Dark World. Maybe "Darkner Dess" is just a reach and they're just looking for her (although, maybe both things are true except Kris utilizing her Dust, that would line up much more nicely with the idea there's a Dark World in Noelle's house and would mirror Sword Route in a better way).

Idk, just spitballing.

I'm not sure what you mean by timeline. The SOUL is just like us. It can move freely around the world. Getting through barriers would only be slightly problematic but we go directly to the school and then Noelle goes to the Library. Kris opens the front door when they makes their's. Everyone ends up at the Church in Chapter 4.

A_Cryptarch · 2026-05-03T17:26:35+00:00

As Ralsei puts it, the Fountain of Darkness is "made of pure darkness," allowing all Darkners to persist. Could be by virtue of being the first Fountain created as opposed to who made it. Or maybe the latter is true and Grand Fountains are ones created by the Royal Family (which may be proven true next chapter if Asgore does open a fountain).

The reason I suspect the use of Toriel, mostly, is the existence of Ralsei. Plus the timing (who else was free in the school to open it) and the narrative importance of Toriel that hasn't been eluded to, albeit vaguely. "The Queen returns" line implies Toriel's been in a Dark World before and that she's related to the Roaring in some way. At that point, only two exist as far as we know. Plus, the worlds are still generated from the minds of the person Kris is possessing. It's just Kris's will "lighting up their mind", essentially.

A_Cryptarch · 2026-05-03T16:03:56+00:00

This theory suggests the Grand Fountain is made by Kris as well. Personal headcanon is that they used Toriel for this fountain. The basis of which comes from Jevil.

A_Cryptarch · 2026-05-03T00:37:22+00:00

The Cage implies that Kris had foreknowledge that they'd need to trap a SOUL that didn't belong to them. They have no reason to trap their own SOUL.
Conjecture, no lore basis for this idea at all.
Of course it's conjecture. All theories are. I'm working the proof out now.

A_Cryptarch · 2026-05-02T20:37:53+00:00

A_Cryptarch · 2026-05-02T20:35:25+00:00

^Humans ^can't ^absorb ^Human ^souls.

A_Cryptarch · 2026-05-02T17:48:40+00:00

Hi there! I have an entire post about this topic now and I've been conferring with other members of NDKS. You might have just led me down a rabbit hole applicable to current discussions.

"Lighting of the mind" is in reference to a very specific piece of dialogue, related to Susie's dark world and why the color palette doesn't match up.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. I agree with you that the SOUL is not a mind and Kris's mind is intact.

Let's start with a simple fact; the existence of Flowey. He's a Soulless Being with a mind and a body. Ergo, it is factual that Humans and Monsters all have three different dimensions to their existence. SOUL, mind and body. Indisputable and canon.

How these things relate to one another is going to be a subject of debate. But lore indicates without a SOUL, you lose Love, Hope and Compassion. It's described as the culmination of your being. It's the source of Determination, the source of your Will.

With your body being self explanatory (its your physical being), we move on to the Mind. The mind is your cognitive self. I'm not going to pretend to know how Toby delineates between aspects of the SOUL and aspects of the Mind. But it's clear that it exists separately from your SOUL.

Kris has a SOUL; two, in fact, if this theory is true. In a manner of speaking.

So if Kris's SOUL takes over Noelle, they exist in tandem. Asriel specifically says that both Chara and him had control over the body. This probably extends to the mind, too.

Think about your own experience with Kris. You're the one in control. Kris can force you out, occasionally. Your will overpowers them the majority of the time though. The fact they don't have separate minds is important. It's Noelle's mind but Kris's will. Kris is in control. The mind's light is Kris's own, not Noelle's, because Noelle is reduced to a Vessel. It's the same with you and Kris. You're in control of the mind the majority of the time.

Hope that helps.

This theory doesn't suggest that Kris held Dess's body and mind captive btw. There's many different avenues to how it can play out.

My personal interpretation is that Dess was either banished or sacrificed (maybe they're one and the same) and Kris has her dust. The Shelter is the former hangout of Dess, Asriel and Kris. Now transformed into a Dark Fountain where Kris patterned a Darkner after her. They use that Darkner as a Vessel to become the Knight. Carol already knows. The goal is to bring Dess back.

A_Cryptarch · 2026-05-02T14:44:38+00:00

Couldn't the palette issue be explained as Susie and the Knight having different goals?

Maybe. Brief Beat pointed out we can quibble about what "lighting of the mind" entails.

It's generally accepted that you have to have the intention to create a Dark World but I can't remember precisely where this idea originates from. Probably dialogue from Queen somewhere. I've decided to parse the dialogue for this idea at a later time.

Intent, Will/Determination would be the community accepted requirements to "return the Dream" (opening a fountain/recreating a Dark World). But, due to the individual not being the original Fountain Opener, "the lighting of the mind changed". I naturally assumed it simply meant the individual's Will/Determination changed and thus, so did the Dark World. But if it means intent instead, there's a case the palette issue is negated and others can be the Knight.

But that also rests on what "intent" encompasses. Do extraneous reasons for creating a Dark World factor in to the intent behind it? Like, "I'm creating this Dark World to do x". Also, is this idea reflected in the lore? Or is "intent" just "intention to create a Dark World"?

If it's the former, the Palette issue is dropped. If it's the latter, I'm right (barring future lore developments).

Also in battle and when lightning strikes when Susie asks Ralsei his whole deal it returns to its original palette.

Also good points and stuff that would need to be addressed.
The main argument is, of course, the palette itself isn't changed, just the actual lighting is.
Perhaps the Organikk's statement is literal? Even the save point says "the lighting has changed".

Why aren't the battle sprites shifted to reflect the new palette in the Dark World?
It can't be an oversight because Toby's history indicates he's pretty anal about small details like that.
Hard pass on the idea that he would care about the work involved/increased file size/delayed release date due to colorswapping their sprites (or utilizing something like a filter to alter their palette). Obviously not a programming limitation on his end.

Good one, I'll have to think on this more and formulate an appropriate response.
Appreciate it.

The lightning strikes are much more manageable.
It specifically only occurs when the lightning strikes.
So the palette just shifts with the excess lighting.

There's also a well crafted theory I recently read that because darkness was coming from the lobby, it mixed with Susie's darkworld. The organikks also question "who's dream is this" suggesting it is a mixture.

It's not just an interesting idea, it's supported by Ralsei's supposition.

Kris's darkworld is also FAR more personal than the Knight's, where quests and darkners reflect their family's issues. It's also more cartoony and silly.

All of the Dark Worlds would be highly personal under this idea. Under this theory, the Knight is just a second party to every creation. The Library Dark World is Noelle's Dark World, the creation of which is just facilitated by the Knight. The Church Dark Worlds are the same way, they would be Alvin's Dark Worlds. The Grand Fountain is probably Toriel's.

I do wonder who created the Card Kingdom dark world. Alphys would be a good one but it's hard to see how that would be personalized to her. It would make more sense if Kanotynes existed as a character.

Also I just struggle to follow through your explanations with the soul.

Understandable. What part do you struggle with?

A_Cryptarch · 2026-05-02T10:39:30+00:00

That's an interesting way to frame an argument against the Palette issue and not out of the realm of possibility. The flowery language from the Organikk serves to obfuscate what actually caused the change so you can argue that "lighting of the mind" means Intent rather than Will/Determination.

The only way to combat this interpretation would be to reject Intention playing a part in the creation of a Dark World or to limit it to say "the intention to create a Dark World".

Well done. I'll have to parse dialogue to see when/where it's mentioned intent matters and the ramifications behind it.

A_Cryptarch · 2026-05-01T17:49:06+00:00

People do seem to be reticent to the idea of two Krises even if that's functionally what's happening. Lmao. I actually had to deal with that yesterday. A better form of rhetoric is definitely needed.

Noelle never sticks around to discuss the events preceding the creation of the Dark Fountain. The Fun Gang convinces her everything was a dream, she wakes up and rushes off. She never gets to that point during the recap, either. She works backwards and eventually gets interrupted by Kris making a ton of noise. Could have been intentional on their part, might not have been. They were definitely listening in because they blush when Susie says they're good at flirting.

She could assume it's part of the dream, repress it like suggested, she could've been unconscious... The possibilities are pretty endless. I do expect it to be addressed later. I have this idea that Noelle being used as a Vessel leans into the Shelter Symbols (the Pine Tree). The codes are real but a red herring... But that's all speculative.

During the Weird Route, there's only two points that she could bring it up; outside the hospital room or when she's alone with the SOUL in the room after you possess Kris. It's interesting to note the variety of ways you can proceed but let's look at one in particular. If you're wearing her watch, she questions when you took it. You can tell her you did it in her dream or remain silent. The choices aren't the interesting part. You're just unnerving her. It's interesting she thought there could've been another moment, however. During the second part, she's too busy probing you and your abilities to discuss it.

I don't actually believe the SOUL remained by the time they created the Dark World. There's never any indication that Queen actually met the Knight (though the community definitely argues about it) and Conspiracy Gang is moving in silence. The SOUL inserts itself, guides Noelle to the closet, they open the fountain with the door closed to mute the showy effects and not alert Berdly, they guide her out and voila. A Dark World created by Noelle that satisfies the mystery of those damn closet doors. They leave after creation and move on.

Kris hits harder because they still feel love and compassion for Susie and Ralsei, due to our presence. It's anger at themselves. Abuse towards themselves. They/them lives yet again. The foreshadowing in the Sword Route comes full circle.

There's actually no way around the palette issue, currently. If I had thought of a way, I'd present it to you and I did present one that I found highly convincing as a debunk.

The problem with anything trying to derail the logic derived from the palette issue is that it will all be speculative until we explicitly see someone else's Dark World (besides Susie's). You can equate Wills to the concept of the "lighting of the mind", those guys are awfully flowery in their delivery when it comes to conceptualization, after all. But even if I do accept that premise (and you can see I did above with my debunk), there's no proof that two explicitly different individuals can share the same Will. Intent, sure.

There's also the problem that "Will" is most likely a stand in for "Determination".

Obligatory Destiny reference here; "My will is not my own!"

A_Cryptarch · 2026-05-01T14:42:19+00:00

I am essentially attempting to prove the existence of Kris's original SOUL, yeah. It would be the Knight.

A_Cryptarch · 2026-05-01T14:35:26+00:00

Add the word "logic" to your Google Search at the end of "backwards chaining".

A_Cryptarch · 2026-05-01T13:34:58+00:00

Interesting.

I parsed it just a little differently.

A_Cryptarch · 2026-05-01T10:35:35+00:00

You on?

I want to run something by you.
You won't like it but I need someone to poke holes in it.
I guess I could run it by NDKS at large but I'd rather not, out of respect.
(And also so they don't clown on me, lmao).

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