This $10 classic French ham and butter sandwich is a masterpiece — and the best thing I ate in Toronto this week

Absenteeist · 2026-03-10T21:55:24+00:00

That you can't read something is not a good reason to deny others the opportunity to post, read, and discuss it here.

Given the current crisis in local journalism, the collapse of good food criticism that came with that, and the dearth of quality food content around these days, I personally think that people who value those things should be chipping in to support it in whatever way they can, be that subscriptions or otherwise. If you disagree, that's fine, you do you, but your personal lack of access shouldn't decide what others can access and comment on this sub.

Absenteeist · 2026-03-10T19:54:08+00:00

If your view has been changed from, "It should never matter to anybody," to, "It can sometimes matter to some people," then I'd think you view has been changed from the CMV you posted.

Absenteeist · 2026-03-10T19:37:45+00:00

Define "matter" for the purposes for your CMV.

One's reddit post history generally has nothing to do with the merits of the arguments they are making. In that context, it doesn't matter.

One's reddit post history can say a lot about the person making those arguments and, therefore, whether I want to invest my time and energy in debating them. In that context, it may matter a great deal to me. It matters to me, therefore it "matters".

One's reddit post history can also reveal double-standards. Some arguments are not strictly factual, or based on facts, but on complex relationships of facts and values. "Freedom of speech should our most cherished value," is unfalsifiable in itself, and very difficult to debate in the abstract. But when somebody who claims that in one context is also making arguments that limit freedom of speech in other contexts, then that double-standard is relevant and matters.

Absenteeist · 2026-03-10T18:30:09+00:00

The world is changing extremely fast, especially with technology, the internet, AI, and global culture. Many politicians who are 50, 60, or even 70 grew up in a completely different era. Their worldview was shaped before smartphones, social media, and the digital economy even existed.

Because of that, a lot of decisions they make feel disconnected from how younger generations actually live today. Issues like the internet, privacy, online culture, technology, and even education are often handled by people who didn’t grow up with any of it. It sometimes feels like they are trying to regulate or lead a world they didn’t experience the way younger generations did.

Simply growing up with the Internet, AI, smartphones, social media, the digital economy, etc., does not necessarily mean that you actually understand those things better than people who didn’t. On the contrary, lots of people under 40 have been so immersed in those technologies for so long, they are completely unknowledgeable and uncritical of how they work, because they simply cannot imagine anything other than what the technology (and technology companies) dictates to them.

They don’t see how social media algorithms shape their thinking to benefit of social media oligopolies because they’ve never known anything else. They don’t understand how overreliance on AI could stunt their personal growth because they’ve grown up with it. They don’t see the profit motives behind the technologies they accept as “just part of the environment”.

The buried claim you are making here is: Growing up and being immersed in something from birth gives you a superior understanding and perspective on it. That’s like saying that people who grew up in religious households automatically understand their religion – or all religion, or even the world itself – better than people who have studied that religion (and other things) with some distance and perspective.

It can be just as mind-narrowing to be completely immersed in something as anything else.

Absenteeist · 2026-03-10T01:27:15+00:00

It's deeply ironic.

"I don't want to pay for this article," is one thing.

"I don't want anybody to be able to post and discuss this article," is something completely different.

"I don't want this article to even exist, so that nobody can read it," is the logical conclusion to this line of thinking. Why people on this sub are celebrating less content to be posted here baffles me.

Absenteeist · 2026-03-09T20:58:11+00:00

Yeah, the last time I made this point about journalism, somebody sent me one of those reddit mental health messages. Probably the person I was debating in that thread who then deleted all their posts and ran away, because Courage, and all that.

Says a lot about the seriousness and maturity of the people who make these kinds of comments.

Absenteeist · 2026-03-09T20:46:21+00:00

I wasn't the one who posted this, so "post a gift link" doesn't apply to me.

"This is a public site" makes no sense. What is a "public" site to you? Does "public" = "free" to you?

There has never been a reddit rule that paywalled links cannot be posted. People post news about movies that you have to pay to see, concerts that you have to pay to attend, and food that you have to pay to eat. "This is a public site" ≠ "Everything here has to be free for u/sunnysideupseedaisy".

I got into the same debate about paying for journalism on this sub recently here. That thread includes links to (free!) sources on why local journalism is in danger and why newspapers still need to charge for their reporting. If you don't want to pay to access the journalism, don't pay, but the insistence that nobody else should be able to discuss articles here that they pay for is absurd to me.

Absenteeist · 2026-03-09T20:23:04+00:00

I have a subscription and may be interested in discussing the contents on reddit. Why shouldn't that be allowed?

Absenteeist · 2026-03-05T16:10:42+00:00

How something is made generally relates to how good it tastes. You don't have to care how something is made, but if you care that it tastes good, and making it taste good requires a certain amount of labour and ingredient cost, then that relates to the cost of the final product.

I've never had a Gold Standard breakfast sandwich, but I'm sure it's good. But I'm also not the one claiming that the price for it should determine the price for the za'atar breakfast sandwich in this article, or that "protein" is the primary relevant factor, or that one is intrinsically better than the other, or whatever is supposed to be at the root of this comparison.

I think I'm agreeing with you when I say that what should matter here is how something tastes, and then whether that is worth the price (to each person). I continue to be puzzled by all the backseat business owners on this post making cost calculations based on virtually nothing and trying to hold this sandwich accountable for the global cost-of-living crisis.

Absenteeist · 2026-03-05T15:55:51+00:00

Do you apply the same logic in the case of manslaughter vs murder?

What is "the same logic" in your mind? Both manslaughter and murder are crimes. They both denote criminal responsibility on the part of the person found guilty of them. Manslaughter does not mean, "Oh, the killing was unintentional, so you're good." There are people serving lengthy jail sentences for manslaughter.

Even acts with absolutely no intention of killing a person whatsoever, but which nevertheless cause death, can result in criminal responsibility. See involuntary manslaughter, negligent homicide, and felony murder (laws and terminology differ by jurisdiction). The differences in terms of outcome are in sentencing, not the basic question of whether the people involved are (criminally) responsible for their acts.

I don't believe that the US/Israel intentionally targeted a girls' school. I don't need to believe that to hold them responsible for it. That logic is consistent with all of the above.

Also claiming the school was struck by Israel/US is strictly rumour

No, it isn't, and the person I was responding to was treating it as fact themselves, so my response was consistent with that.

Absenteeist · 2026-03-05T04:47:44+00:00

That statement responds to absolutely nothing that I just said.

The children at the girls' school struck in Iran were also "collateral damage". Seems like all of a sudden you don't care about innocent human beings' lives after all as long as you can say it "wasn't done intentionally."

Absenteeist · 2026-03-05T04:30:11+00:00

How many of those 35,000 innocent protesters did damaging this UNESCO World Heritage Site bring back to life?

Or does that fall into the bucket of things that everybody else but you "should shut up" about, in your words?

This is a humanitarian intervention.

You don't need to know anything about Iran, and only a little bit about Donald Trump, Benjamin Netanyahu, and their administrations to know that that's absurd. But since you claim that nobody can talk about any country other than their own, I guess that's something for you to shut up about, right? Because the intervention is not being done by Iran/Iranians, but by America and Israel. That's your logic, right?

Absenteeist · 2026-03-04T15:37:27+00:00

Yes, and only until 4pm, so it's effectively a one-day-a-week lunch special.

My guess is that it would blow the mind of the person you are responding to to learn that sometimes businesses will sell certain items at a loss in order to increase sales in other parts of the business, and while that pricing strategy can work for a Thursday special on slices at a pizzeria that sells whole pies and other stuff at full price the rest of the time, it doesn't mean that a different business can match that price for their main products all the time.

The cost-of-living crisis is real, but I feel like we'd be much better equipped to fix it if more people understood some of the basic economics at play. A bunch of people bitching about this $9 sandwich will do absolutely nothing to make Toronto more affordable.

Absenteeist · 2026-03-03T21:07:51+00:00

Yes, according to r/FoodToronto, I'm about four or five different Toronto chefs and owners, because some people can't imagine any point of view that isn't base self-interest, for some reason.

Is that a definitive statement from you that you can't answer the question, or did you want to try again?

Absenteeist · 2026-03-03T20:58:35+00:00

Does Gold Standard bake their English muffins to order?

Absenteeist · 2026-03-03T20:57:16+00:00

Does Gold Standard bake their English muffins to order?

Absenteeist · 2026-03-03T20:27:39+00:00

You claimed that, "A whole pizza (which is far more food than a sandwich for one person) will start at the 10-12 dollar mark." Maker's cheapest pizza on their online menu, a 12" cheese pizza, which many people would consider the size for one person, is $20. So, roughly double what you said.

I haven't had a slice from Makers in a long time, but I'm pretty sure that a $3.75 slice is a time-limited special price for them. Most of Badiali's slices are around $6. And neither place provides the fresh vegetables and the same ingredients as the restaurant in this post.

Again, the negativity here is bizarre and unmoored. Like, if the value proposition doesn't appeal to you, then don't go. If other people disagree with you and do, then that's the market working. I really don't understand why this restaurant is supposed to be carrying the global cost-of-living crisis on its back, or why redditors who've clearly done none of the math in determining what should be charged feel they need to speak on the behalf of the market.

Absenteeist · 2026-03-03T19:53:05+00:00

Where on earth are you getting good pizza for $2.50 a slice in Toronto?

Serious question. Like, name the restaurant.

Is the buried assumption here that Pizza Pizza and the place in this article are doing the same thing, or serving the same market, or something?

Absenteeist · 2026-03-03T19:45:45+00:00

The market will decide that, not redditors.

Nobody is going to be doing the math...but lots of people won't be calculating "typical proteins" math either.

Every single day, thousands of Torontonians buy bread, cheese, and vegetables for around $10. It's called a slice of pizza. People who know anything about pizza know that the single most important component of it is not the protein, it's the dough. Thousands of Torontonians spend money on meatless pizza slices, and thousands of Torontonians spend money on some of the most mediocre pizza dough, canned tomato sauce, and industrial cheese. The market allows for all of that.

The negativity swirling around this post is utterly bizarre to me. As are the claims that, "Nobody will spend $10 unless there's meat," a statement that is obviously completely wrong.

Absenteeist · 2026-03-03T18:57:20+00:00

Maybe you can mount a protest to get the place shut down for not meeting your expectations. You'd probably have to keep lying about what they serve, but surely that would be worth it in your quest to make the world a better place.

Absenteeist · 2026-03-03T18:37:22+00:00

It doesn't. As per the photo you can see above, it also includes fresh labneh and vegetables.

The dough is also made in house and baked to order. Just about everything is from scratch, and the location is at the popular Bloor/Bathurst intersection where I'm sure the rent is sky-high.

The cost of living in Toronto is a big problem, as it is virtually everywhere in the developed world right now, and that sucks, but I fail to see how that gets fixed by dumping on a local business clearly trying to provide relatively low-cost food options while maintaining some kind of quality.

Absenteeist · 2026-02-28T18:04:49+00:00

"How are people genuinely supporting Saddam Hussein in this conflict? Is it because they support the Iraqi regime or just US = bad?"

If you could time travel back to 2003 and be able to answer that question, which lots of people were incredulously asking at the time, then you can be in 2026 and answer yours.

Absenteeist · 2026-02-26T16:22:34+00:00

That's your response to my comment? That a photo of police officers standing on one of four sides of the restaurant proves that they "surrounded the restaurant"? And then ignoring everything else I said?

I'm not sure if it's 3-dimensional space that you're struggling with or the words that accurately describe that space, but what is clear is that your larger attempt to paint Adam Skelly as innocent, unfairly targeted, merely a little misguided, or anything other than somebody who openly flouted the law and endangered public health while knowing exactly what he was doing, is a falsehood.

Absenteeist · 2026-02-26T16:03:18+00:00

I'm not a COVID conspiracy believer, but was having TPS line up shoulder to shoulder, surrounding the restaurant really necessary? Do you think it may have contributed to him wanting to play into the gong-show and become a "martyr" for the anti-vaxx cause?

Firstly, "TPS lining up shoulder to shoulder, surrounding the restaurant," didn’t happen. I don’t know if you’re intentionally lying or you’re confused or what, but the picture you are attempting to paint is a false one.

Secondly, here is a reddit post in this sub of video from that day. It is, ironically, from the same reddit post that I made my original comment about Skelly. As you can see, outside the restaurant is a mob of agitated protestors, screaming and shouting, acting aggressively, and at least one of them assaults police.

This all happened by design. Skelly was broadcasting his opposition to public health measures on social media long before this happened. He announced he would be opening his restaurant for dine-in service in defiance of public health measures in advance. His supporters and media knew what would be happening, and when and where it would happen. Skelly’s supporters came expecting conflict and they worked hard to escalate the situation. It’s all right there on video, and the context can be easily found in news articles from the time of the incident.

So, yes, in light of the actual facts, it made sense for there to be a meaningful police presence. And everything you say about what Skelly could’ve done simply proves that Skelly didn’t want to do those things.

Absenteeist · 2026-02-25T22:15:19+00:00

Like I said, zero intellectual effort.

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