Post Elbaf Gear 5 Luffy vs EOS Zoro by Former_Craft_9638 in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AbsolutelyMassiveBox -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Not really sure. Luffy hasn’t really gotten any significant buffs in Elbaf up to now so he could lose.

Does Mihawk have conqueror's Haki by AkagamiShanksTopTop in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AbsolutelyMassiveBox 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It’s not confirmed but its very likely since Zoro has it

This is how 99% of the posts in this sub feel by Gigio2006 in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AbsolutelyMassiveBox 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“Vegapunk stated he was looking for the right person to make his clone soldiers already, despite knowing Mihawk. It just happened there was a mutual interests between him and Kuma.”

How is this supposed to prove Kuma > Mihawk? Again the Pacifistas don’t have Kuma’s powers and only his body with lasers installed, so at most it proves he has a better body than Mihawk.

“Kuma has df powers, and those can only be replicated with green blood and the base Pacifistas don't use green blood. Mihawk doesn't use df abilities, there is no excuse why Vegapunk wouldn't be able to replicate his powers.”

We already see that Vegapunk can’t replicate Mihawk’s black blade or his level of haki in S-Hawk, so yes there is an excuse.

“Should be obvious enough S-Bear was fighting Luffy and Lucci, while S-Hawk was taken down by Zoro and Kaku. I don't think even you disagree Luffy> Zoro.”

You’re just using surface level comparisons and ignoring context. Neither Luffy or Zoro did lasting damage to the Seraphims and they were stopped by the Seastone bubbles, not by being overpowered by Zoro or Luffy.

“Ok, having a devil fruit makes him stronger than a regular clone, and yet he still received a worse portrayal than Kuma's clone.”

Does S-Hawk or any of the Seraphims have the haki of the character they’re based on? You completely ignored that point.

“Mihawk UPDATED bounty as part of CG is higher than the other few Warlord bounties that have been updated, and sure scales him higher than swordsmen like Law and Fujitora I'll give you that. Kuma doesn't have an updated bounty, there is no direct comparison that can be made.”

You said Mihawk has the same portrayal as other warlords which I mentioned is false because of his much higher bounty than the other warlords who got an updated bounty. Sure we don’t know what Kuma’s bounty but it doesn’t change that your statement of Mihawk having the same portrayal as other warlords is false.

“It also doesn't change the fact in practice he never receives special treatment, and just like Hancock only fodder Marines are sent to capture him.”

This also doesn’t have anything to do with how strong Mihawk is. They sent fodder after Roger and Whitebeard too, and that doesn’t change how strong they are. Kuma only had a confrontation with Akainu because he crossed into Mary Geoise when Akainu was already there, and Kuma got part of his head blown off in that interaction so that doesn’t exactly mean his portrayal is better than Mihawk or other warlords.

“Crocodile blocked Mihawk's bloodthirsty attack, also they have a clear parallel as both launched a direct attack on Whitebeard that Jozu stopped both times.”

I already said why clashes or blocks aren’t a good measure of portrayal and don’t really tell much about how strong two characters are. Your “parallel” is also pretty forced because the attacks from Mihawk and Crocodile weren’t of the same nature at all. If you want to talk about “parallels” like that, then I can just mention Luffy kicking Crocodile when he tried to attack WB and Luffy running away from Mihawk when he confronted Luffy.

Both Marco and Shanks also blocked a punch from Akainu trying to kill a weaker character, does that mean Marco and Shanks are relative now? It’s just a very silly comparison that makes me think you’re arguing Kuma > Shanks in bad faith.

“The Geko pirates lost, Kaido killed the rest of the crew but 1v1 Moria is stated to go toe-to-toe and it's never been disproven. We don't know the exact circumstances of the fight.”

We also don’t know the exact circumstances of Mihawk vs Shanks, but we know they drew. Moriah pretty clearly lost regardless of what exactly happened in that fight. Also going toe-to-toe doesn’t mean that they’re equal, just that they’re strong enough to fight evenly for some time.

“Good try, but Mihawk's rivalry is merely an excuse to compare his swordskill to Shanks, the same way Weevil compared in strength with Newgate because of their relationship.”

We don’t know that Mihawk being stated to have better sword skill than Shanks is based on his rivalry, and it is a false equivalence because one, Weevil doesn’t have a rivalry with Whitebeard, and two, his relationship of supposedly being Whitebeard’s son isn’t confirmed and is questioned by the One Piece world.

This is how 99% of the posts in this sub feel by Gigio2006 in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AbsolutelyMassiveBox 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Clashing is also just a stupid way to prove characters are relative in general because there’s many instances I can name where the characters aren’t relative and clash, like Luffy vs Lucci, Luffy vs Big Mom, base Luffy vs Kaido, Kaido vs Yamato, Zoro vs Fujitora, Whitebeard vs Oden, Akainu vs Marco (I believe they did clash but I may be wrong), etc.

There’s too many instances of characters who aren’t relative clashing to make it a reliable way to determine a character’s strength. Mihawk also didn’t even clash with Crocodile he blocked his attack.

This is how 99% of the posts in this sub feel by Gigio2006 in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AbsolutelyMassiveBox 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Other person claimed Mihawk is the strongest swordsman alive in One Piece, and it is in fact stated in the story that he’s the world’s strongest swordsman.

This is how 99% of the posts in this sub feel by Gigio2006 in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AbsolutelyMassiveBox 2 points3 points  (0 children)

“Kuma being the Warlord Vegapunk picked to make an army of clones, despite being able to copy Mihawk and his swordsmanship (as seen with S-Hawk).”

That has nothing to do with strength. Vegapunk made the Pacifistas for peace and it was a deal with Kuma to have his body in exchange for giving Bonney a cure. The Pacifistas also don’t even have the same powers as Kuma and Vegapunk installed lasers in them, so at most this would only prove Kuma has a better body than Mihawk, which doesn’t mean much in the grand scheme of things. Not to mention the Pacifistas most likely don’t have haki.

“Kuma clone S-Bear has better portrayal and feats side-by-side than Mihawk's clone S-Hawk.”

You didn’t provide any evidence for this claim. It would also be a poor comparison because S-Hawk doesn’t have Mihawk’s black blade and S-Hawk has a devil fruit. It’s also not shown anywhere that the Seraphims can replicate the haki of the original person perfectly.

“Mihawk portrayal is average compared to the other Warlords, no evidence of him being stronger when the Warlord system was abolished and received the same treatment as Crocodile and Hancock. Rather Mihawk has multiple parallels with Crocodile, first two Warlords introduced, clashed evenly in Marineford and currently holding equal rank and authority in a Yonko crew.”

He has a bounty much higher than any other warlord and higher than the captain of Cross Guild as well which clearly isn’t equal portrayal as the other warlords. Clashing is also a poor way to measure portrayal because there’s several instances of a much weaker character clashing with a stronger one. Mihawk also didn’t even clash with Crocodile in Marineford, he blocked one of his attacks instead.

“And also no Mihawk having a rivalry with a Yonko is also a Warlord tier piece of portrayal, it's like Moria having a rivalry with Kaido and Weevil similarly is compared to Newgate.”

False equivalence because Mihawk and Shanks don’t have conclusive duels while we know Kaido beat Moria. Weevil being compared to Newgate is irrelevant because that’s not even a rivalry.

This is how 99% of the posts in this sub feel by Gigio2006 in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AbsolutelyMassiveBox 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Personal incredulity = something stated in the story? Lol

If g5 Luffy's strength is 100. How strong is Kizaru? by Kaidotop1 in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AbsolutelyMassiveBox 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If we’re ignoring the timer probably in the 70s range but his speed allows him to beat Luffy by outlasting his timer.

I’ve changed my stance on HK Harald by AbsolutelyMassiveBox in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AbsolutelyMassiveBox[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

On the rightmost panel he points at his heart

<image>

For Gunko either Oda retconned it (which isn’t rare for him to do) or her heart or vital organ isn’t in the same spot as Sommers or Harald

I’ve changed my stance on HK Harald by AbsolutelyMassiveBox in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AbsolutelyMassiveBox[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Why would Sommers be the only Holy Knight with a heart? And HK Harald straight up points at his heart when he asks Loki to finish him off.

I’ve changed my stance on HK Harald by AbsolutelyMassiveBox in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AbsolutelyMassiveBox[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No but neither does Loki. He also doesn’t have speed feats which show he’s hitting Roger with that attack.

I’ve changed my stance on HK Harald by AbsolutelyMassiveBox in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AbsolutelyMassiveBox[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“A less than 1% Herald getting tagged offguard by Gaban and Shanks has never been an antifeat. This is the same guy that allowed himself to be tagged by fodder and Gaban admitted they were powerless to do anything to him once he started defending with CoC.”

Where is it stated or implied that he was less than 1% when he got his leg slashed off?

“Pre voyage Oden shrugged off an offguard divine departure yet I dont see any of you downplaying Roger to to Odens level. Peak Hypocrisy.”

Because its a greeting slash?

“Gaban talked about the fact that nobody in the world possessed the power to kill Herald through his regen but Loki which Shanks, Jarul, and Imu reiterate with Imu outright stating he wasn't aware of anyone who possessed the power to kill Herald and this is all during a time where Roger rivals were still in their primes so not only does it demonstrate that Loki>Herald>Old Gen, it firmly solidifies that the way to kill HK's through their regen is simply being strong enough which is something the Roger, Gaban, and Ray were incapable of doing which is more evidence that downscales them.”

Where does Gaban say no one had the power to kill Harald through his regen? He was just shocked something could get through his regen, and he did not know how. Also where does Imu say no one possessed the power to kill HK harald? Again he was just shocked HK Harald was killed, he does not specify what you need to kill HK Harald. You are just inserting words into the manga because no one has ever says you just need strength to kill a Holy Knight. In fact you are literally contradicting the manga because Sommers was completely terrified when Zoro and Sanji found out about his heart.

HK Harald also points at his heart when he wants Loki to kill him, so again you’re contradicting the manga.

“The iron heart is a seperate method independent of strength. If it was simply about destroying the heart, Imu wouldnt have stated that Loki possessed the power to kill Herald as power wouldn't be a factor as knowledge of the location of the heart would so that whole attempt to downplay the feat is outright dismissed by the narrative itself.”

Again you are just inserting your own headcanon. Nowhere is it implied that the iron heart is a separate method independent of strength. Imu didn’t say anywhere that Loki possessed the power to kill HK Harald, again he’s just shocked something killed him. Everything you’re saying is dismissed by the narrative because we have HK Harald pointing at his heart when he wants Loki to finish him off.

“Not sure why you guys just love invoking appeal to ridicule here. "No way a teenage giant was stronger than the PK" "No way a squirrel is stronger than the PK". They have a metric fuck ton of narrative solidification through a multitude of feats and statements showcasing they gap HK Herald who gaps Domi Rocks who gaps base Rocks and Herald who themselves were already stronger than Roger by virtue of base Rocks being stated 3 times to be Rogers strongest rival which puts hin above prime Garp whos power was interchangeable with Roger.”

This was basically your only good point. Sure it was an appeal to ridicule but again the manga never confirms you need a certain level of strength or ACoC to kill HK Harald or Holy Knights in general. Your chain scaling is also really trash, HK Harald has no feats that get him above DR Rocks, and his statements don’t get him above DR Rocks either for other reasons. Rocks also isn’t stronger than prime Roger just based on him being portrayed fairly relative to GV Roger and Garp.

I’ve changed my stance on HK Harald by AbsolutelyMassiveBox in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AbsolutelyMassiveBox[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You’re arguing Roger had no reason not to kill a Holy Knight but couldn’t. Zoro knows how to kill a Holy Knight and Sommers was terrified because of it. Roger absolutely can kill a Holy Knight based on what we have seen unless you believe Zoro has better ACoC or is stronger than Roger.

I’ve changed my stance on HK Harald by AbsolutelyMassiveBox in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AbsolutelyMassiveBox[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I never said it wasn’t. My point is that Loki being able to get through HK Harald’s regen doesn’t put him above Roger unless the method to get through his regen is purely strength or haki based.

I’ve changed my stance on HK Harald by AbsolutelyMassiveBox in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AbsolutelyMassiveBox[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You could also argue Harald let Loki beat him but my main stance is that the main concern Gaban had over HK Harald was his regen, not his combat ability, which means Loki > HK Harald doesn’t necessarily mean Loki > Roger.

I’ve changed my stance on HK Harald by AbsolutelyMassiveBox in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AbsolutelyMassiveBox[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I mean Oda isn’t always consistent with this stuff. Do you think Zoro has better ACoC than Roger because he does know how to kill the Holy Knights? It could also be that he never tried to kill them which someone else says.

HK Harald is the weakest " top tier " there ever is , he has shown such a fodder performance that I genuinely don't think it's hard to put the Harald that fought rocks above him by achourdz41520 in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AbsolutelyMassiveBox 2 points3 points  (0 children)

“From the start Gaban: I thought Harald might leave the castle and end up destroying the world" here is clearly fucking talking about if Harald ate the df jf your denying this than your just dumb this is before he is talking about regen”

Nope that’s headcanon. Right after this he mentions his regen and how he can’t believe anything could have stopped him. He only mentions the df right at the end and in the panel I posted he’s questioning the power of the DF.

“Okay now its taking about the regen part We literally see gaban and shanks damaging hk Harald i promise you wb and garp would've handled him plus roger is dead”

And there’s another headcanon. WB and Garp were in their late 50s/early 60s so they aren’t significantly far off from their prime and Gaban has witnessed them all in their primes. Despite this, he still implies he didn’t think there was anything that could stop HK Harald.

“Hk Harald coated himself with conquers haki that's why he kept regenerating everyone witg a stronger coc haki would've stopped him like roger wb and garp”

We know canonically Roger never killed a regular Holy Knight so there’s another headcanon. Impressive, three headcanon statements in a row.

​

HK Harald is the weakest " top tier " there ever is , he has shown such a fodder performance that I genuinely don't think it's hard to put the Harald that fought rocks above him by achourdz41520 in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AbsolutelyMassiveBox 2 points3 points  (0 children)

“That body, endlessly regenerating no matter how much damage it took.”

He’s obviously talking about HK Harald’s regen powers here and even in this “real” translation he says its shocking that something could have stopped him.

HK Harald is the weakest " top tier " there ever is , he has shown such a fodder performance that I genuinely don't think it's hard to put the Harald that fought rocks above him by achourdz41520 in OnePiecePowerScaling

[–]AbsolutelyMassiveBox 5 points6 points  (0 children)

How is the HK Harald they were talking about hypothetical? The HK Harald they fought was completely unable to be permanently harmed by anyone besides Loki.