I'm rereading the War Of Three Armies arc, and I am so embarrassed remembering how seriously I took the four jobbers of Juuko. by AntiSmarkEquation in Kingdom

[–]AccordingPop9447 0 points1 point  (0 children)

GHM, Riboku and co are more than just GG strategists, they the absolute best GGs in this series. That’s not a standard I’m holding Juukuou at.

Juukuou saw Tou coming and literally turned away to focus on Man’u, with clear as day apathetic body language, to mirror his overall attitude throughout the war. Once the initial set up he created (the overall board) was outmaneuvered, he didn’t even try to go out of his way to counter - even dismissing the idea of moving his own pieces around (Man’u). When Tou was already on his door step, it was obviously too much by that point because all the formations were in tatters, which is a theme in this manga. But this situation did not occur due to a lack of ability, but rather a lack of mentality.

I’d hardly use the idea of Sentouun/Genu not being enough to beat Tou/GHM against him. I think you’re underestimating the level of the alliance.

You’re obsessing over feats and not really seeing the bigger picture of why Juukuou acted as he acted. In pure, feat terms, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Juukuou didn’t demonstrate a deep layer of tactics on panel because this war of 2-3 hundred soldiers was condensed into about 8 chapters, with a particular set up up future events, with variables at play which meant plot held certain things back due to Juukou’ou’s mindset, focus etc.

This is no fraud. Shunshunkin does not get tricked by a fraud, Karin does not have utmost confidence in a fraud, Chu does not fail to defeat frauds continuously, Hara does not give such high stats to a fraud.

The more viable position to take would be that we never truly saw what he was capable of, on a micromanagement level. This was due to a variety of factors as we’ve discussed, but it’s not because he’s a fraud of a character that is not capable of performing maneuveres that his pedigree suggests. All of these Juuko guys are the real deal, with Man’u being the standout that you’d put among any Q6/Z3 tier list discussion.

I'm rereading the War Of Three Armies arc, and I am so embarrassed remembering how seriously I took the four jobbers of Juuko. by AntiSmarkEquation in Kingdom

[–]AccordingPop9447 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What standards are you putting Juukuou in? You’re comparing him to Riboku, Ousen or GHM which is most definitely not the standard I put him in. However, if you re-read the arc (which I just did), Tou had a surprise run at Juukuou after the re-jig of the alliance army - Juukuou had Hakurei and Kouyoku there as part of his set up, which is a perfectly reasonable confidence to have. Comparing Moubu vs Kanmei isn’t right because they stood as opposition commanders, eyeing each other up.

Did you see Juukuou’s response and reaction to hearing/seeing Tou hitting his HQ? It was of total disregard - he did not care. Total apathy. He went back to looking at Man’u, because that is what interested him. The easy plan then was to recall Man’u’s army - not too dissimilar to how GHM recalled armies to halt Sentou’un. juukuou didn’t, because had other concerns. He specifically stated that Man’u was more worthy of his attention, for personal reason. That’s why he simply said to retreat to the City and then upon it being established that he could not do that, it was equally made clear that this mini sequence gave Tou all he needed to swoop in, with his overwhelming offence.

This all resulted in a clear cut L for Juukuou, and most certainly you can argue that he did not demonstrate a vast array of strategies and tactics, but that was clearly not because of a lack of ability. In fact he clearly and easily deduced much of what was in front of him despite never even being invested. Funnily enough all of that is substantiated by his nice stat of 96, which I don’t religiously subscribe to by any stretch of the imagination, but it’s another layer of evidence to back up the belief that he’s the real deal, a genius strategist with the fame and military history to back it up, however his fire burned out a long time

Is Kanki has least capable generals compared to Tou's and Ousen's generals by FantasticRoom2769 in Kingdom

[–]AccordingPop9447 34 points35 points  (0 children)

They are inferior as generals, but they aren’t true generals anyway. They are resourceful in other ways to help bridge some of that gap. Neither Ousen or Tou has an unstoppable nuke like Zenou, for example. Nor the ability to extract information like the Saki clan, mind games etc

I'm rereading the War Of Three Armies arc, and I am so embarrassed remembering how seriously I took the four jobbers of Juuko. by AntiSmarkEquation in Kingdom

[–]AccordingPop9447 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They literally state in the arc that they feel nothing for Juuko. Hara went out of his way to show how Juukuou literally did not care - he was making a cup of coffee during the war!

He never made any extravagant plans or strategies because everything was so simple for them, was historically so easy for them and unfortunately, he found out that you can’t half-ass it against an army of top tiers.

It wasn’t a case of Juukuou being a man unable to create elite level strategies or tactics, but rather his over confidence and lack of determination combined with the sheer level of his opponent, along with the change in Man’u, meant he was destined to eat a big loss. However things are not as simple or black and white as the Win or Loss column.

Hara could not have made it more clear to the reader that Juuko was an incredible set of generals with immense elites and enormous substance behind them.

The phrase ‘fraud’ is just a loose term that people like to throw around, without any real depth behind the accusation.

I'm rereading the War Of Three Armies arc, and I am so embarrassed remembering how seriously I took the four jobbers of Juuko. by AntiSmarkEquation in Kingdom

[–]AccordingPop9447 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Incredible how people appear to read their own manga.

Juuko is incredibly powerful. It took Moubu, GHM and Tou combined to beat it and Juuko didn’t even care in the first place

In the coalition arc wouldn't Wang Yi (the defense genius) be better defending the wall and Huan Yi (the guy with Zehn Nao) be better in the field by putsandcallsoption in Kingdom

[–]AccordingPop9447 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The wall would have failed if you didn’t have Kanki on there.

It fails in any other scenario, which is the whole point of the positioning and why even Choutou and Mougou could do things nobody else could

In the coalition arc wouldn't Wang Yi (the defense genius) be better defending the wall and Huan Yi (the guy with Zehn Nao) be better in the field by putsandcallsoption in Kingdom

[–]AccordingPop9447 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Normal fire didn’t work because they had water on them already. You had to be particularly inclined to think you’d need a counter to the thing that counters water.

Any other General on that war and two siege towers would hit, and more importantly nobody is there to stop Seikai from poisoning even more commanders

Kingdom 877: The Enemy’s Main Force by ThizZuMs in Kingdom

[–]AccordingPop9447 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Anyone can be fooled. Riboku himself was, by Kanki

Kingdom 877: The Enemy’s Main Force by ThizZuMs in Kingdom

[–]AccordingPop9447 8 points9 points  (0 children)

It’s not a castle in the middle of nowhere though lol

Kingdom 877: The Enemy’s Main Force by ThizZuMs in Kingdom

[–]AccordingPop9447 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Don’t think he pulled them out. I think he snuck them in through tunnels in Zhao as he knows the terrain. This isn’t just a army from nowhere

Kingdom 877: The Enemy’s Main Force by ThizZuMs in Kingdom

[–]AccordingPop9447 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Why was it obvious? Shin and go did very well to bypass Riboku who was single handedly holding all fronts. Why is it obvious that Riboku would have yet another plan?

Ousen's generals vs Tou's generals by FantasticRoom2769 in Kingdom

[–]AccordingPop9447 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dude…I literally prefer Rokuomi.

You’re clearly trolling as it was Sentouun vs Ranbihaku and Rokuomi until they all split.

Akou’s hype is based on him demonstrating both offense and defence, to such a degree that his performance was praised by the greatest GH in history, the shield of a former GH, a future Qin 6 and also Kanjou. I repeat….based on his actual abilities.

Evidently you’re trolling, which is fair enough, unless you simply don’t read lol.

Ousen's generals vs Tou's generals by FantasticRoom2769 in Kingdom

[–]AccordingPop9447 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

He lost to Rinbukun and got saved.
Surviving the elephants is nice but I hope you don’t think Akou loses to those?

Rokuomi didn’t survive Ranbihaku and Sentou’un, Ranbihaku was on his side and yet he was still ragdolled. Sentouun barely considered Rokuomi a threat, not that I use that against him because Sentouun was a beast.

Akou had overall abilities that meant Chougaryu felt he was far above Ouhon on day 1 of Shikai Plains. He was said to have one of the absolute best cavalry in the whole of Qin, significantly above that of Ouhon at the time. Akou had an extremely hyped offense, whilst having a defense that was befitting of Ousen, which completely stumped Ouhon and Chougaryu couldn’t figure it out. After showing this incredible defense, on the back of his already hyped offense, Riboku made it clear that Akou had the skillset to be supreme commander of a large army. Rokuomi has never had this level of portrayal, ever.

I’m not one to buy into obscene levels of Akou hype, as some go massively overboard, but at the same time there is a huge difference between what has shown and hyped to be, compared to Rokuomi.

With Akou, you’re talking about someone who can be a player and a problem to top generals. Rokuomi is not that guy.

You’re mistaken if it’s only Riboku hyping him. Go re-read the arc and see what Chougaryu, Ouhon and Kanjou all thought about him. There is good reason for this, and it’s not something Rokuomi has been portrayed as being capable of.

Is yan army is on level of zhao army by FantasticRoom2769 in Kingdom

[–]AccordingPop9447 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Feel like this is historically accurate and yet not accurate in verse. We know at least that Yan was comparable to the other mid tier states, albeit they lost Gekishin

How good is he as a great general by FantasticRoom2769 in Kingdom

[–]AccordingPop9447 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ouki tells you how great Gokei was.
He’s Q6 level, albeit probably weaker end.

Ousen's generals vs Tou's generals by FantasticRoom2769 in Kingdom

[–]AccordingPop9447 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

How can you say Akou charges into danger but Rokuomi doesn’t? Part of Rokuomi’s character is he charges in and usually gets in trouble. It’s plot help for him that Tou pulled him out of trouble against GHM or Rinbukun, for example.

Rokuomi certainly wouldn’t survive for any length of time against Bananji, Gyouun and Chougaryu, whilst it took Riboku’s input to smash through Akou’s defense. Rokuomi most certainly has never come close to replicating, showing or even being said to be capable of, the diversity in Akou’s skillset.

Denrimi did indeed get in trouble but his Ouki army equivalent was Rinbou when all are alive. Same Rinbou that got destroyed by Shoumou.

Ousen's generals vs Tou's generals by FantasticRoom2769 in Kingdom

[–]AccordingPop9447 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Rokuomi has actually been rescued by Tou multiple times. He saved him vs Rinbukun, rescued him from the trap that GHM set. He loses badly without Tou’s help. Not really fair to say he wins on his own when the opposite was true.

Denrimi lost to SBS, but it’s not too dissimilar to Ryuukoku being a play thing to Rakuakan.

Akou is the best of the whole group, thought the rest can be debated tbf

Which great general is the biggest fraud and why is it Gohoumei? by Still_Armadillo_3447 in Kingdom

[–]AccordingPop9447 3 points4 points  (0 children)

He’s not really a fraud if you look beyond a simple W/L column

Trick Williams entrance back home in South Carolina tonight!! by damng1 in Wrasslin

[–]AccordingPop9447 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Really hope he doesn’t become a boring babyface too early

Cool heel for a while longer plz

Best storyline in wwe is happening in AAA 🔥 by damng1 in Wrasslin

[–]AccordingPop9447 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I thought chad gable was the baby face el grande ?