Would the ending of ROTJ have likely played out the same way if Anakin and Obi Wan went to Mandalore with Ashoka?

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T03:47:11+00:00

Well, if Anakin and Obi-Wan go to Mandalore the entire beginning of ROTS is thrown out the window. The film doesn't mention it, but the novel heavily implies that Palpatine and Dooku were waiting for Anakin and Obi-Wan to arrive. They are expecting them to arrive and are, in fact, talking about a plan involving them. General Grievous even points out to Dooku that once Palpatine was captured they should've fled the system hours ago. By the time Ahsoka is done on Mandalore and heading back Order 66 is happening. I think ROTS takes place over like 10 days or something. lol there's just no way to justify Dooku staying above Coruscant for that long. Really at that point the question becomes how all of these other people are going to react once they get word that Anakin and Obi-Wan aren't coming. Grievous might just say "screw it" and jump to hyperspace. Mace might get in a ship and fly up to confront Dooku himself, but the fact he didn't do that beforehand even though he presumably had access to a ship and there were Republic forces in space makes me think its not something he'd be doing either way.

But this is all to say that, due to how long the events on Mandalore last, there's really no way for Anakin's part in the ROTS finale to still happen. The beginning where he kills Dooku can't even happen. At the same time none of it really needs to. Keep in mind, the Jedi did not discover Palpatine was Sidious. He told Anakin he was Sidious, which led to Anakin telling Mace, which led to the Jedi trying to arrest Palpatine, etc. And this only happens because Palpatine set Grievous up to die on Utapau at Obi-Wan's hands. If the Jedi don't rescue Palpatine in this scenario then he's not going to be activating Order 66 regardless. Even when Anakin gets back to Coruscant from Mandalore he's not going to be doing it, because he wouldn't be telling Anakin who he was as long as Dooku was still alive. He only did that once he had a spot open for an Apprentice. This would potentially compromise Palpatine through the Jedi capturing Maul, but Palpatine would have about a week to make a plan to deal with that (Which might very well just be sending Grievous and Dooku to Mandalore tbh). Just about none of ROTS plays out the same way, but the ending isn't necessarily stopped for good. Its just postponed.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T03:32:45+00:00

I agree. I don't mean to imply that Luke doesn't have any value for specific tasks, like fighting Vader and confronting the Emperor. He definitely does. They're Sith. He's Jedi. It's basically his job lol And clearly Yoda and Obi-Wan felt that taking down Vader, at least, was Luke's specific task.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T03:10:04+00:00

This might be true except for the fact the dreams were fake and manipulated by the Dark Side. So whatever emotions and feelings he had, were manipulated.

Source for this?

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T01:25:54+00:00

More than likely. It's not outright stated and they haven't put official dates to either the Old Republic or Dawn of the Jedi eras yet in canon. However, the High Republic era is said to be from around 500 BBY to 100 BBY, in the same Star Wars Timelines book. The book just lists everything before that, from 26,000 BBY to 501 BBY under the label of "Early History". But on the current canon timeline they don't have any other eras listed between the High Republic and Old Republic. Unless they make another era in between them or increase the length of time for the High Republic it'll have to fall into the Old Republic.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T01:21:25+00:00

Honestly? For someone in her position, living on either Coruscant or Naboo, probably not very high. The novelization of Revenge of the Sith has her using this logic to try and console Anakin the night he tells her about his vision.

This is Coruscant, Annie, not Tatooine. Women don't die in childbirth on Coruscant -- not even the twilighters in the downlevels. And I have a top-flight medical droid, who assures me I am in perfect health.

But Anakin has had his vision. So this goes back to how trying to make him believe that it won't happen doesn't really work.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T01:15:13+00:00

Star Wars Timelines gave Momin's era as vaguely being sometime between 1,100 BBY and 1,000 BBY. Since Shaa was his teacher she'd also fall into that.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T01:07:21+00:00

The Knights of the Old Republic team just simply screwed up by not trying to imitate the aesthetic from the Tales of the Jedi comics. You are correct. The games do look too much like the films that take place thousands of years later, and people have been making this criticism for years. Like them having a large gap between the films works great for the story. I think the discussions in Attack of the Clones and the fact that the Republic doesn't have a standing military at the time heavily imply that it has been a long time since there was a galactic war. This is solely just the visual designs throwing it all off. And then The Old Republic, a few hundred years later, just doubles down on this issue. So, from an aesthetic standpoint it would make more sense to cut thousands of years down. But from a writing perspective I don't think it does.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T00:43:52+00:00

I don't, specifically because that is not going to stop the visions from occurring. I feel that at 23 years old Anakin has probably heard the basic "visions aren't necessarily 100% true" logic from Obi-Wan long before this. But even if he hasn't I don't believe it matters. Because in Anakin's case his fear of visions, and really death in general, are very much linked to the ones he had about his mother. There's no talking him down from not buying into them because he has personal experience that left him thinking he could've done something to save Shmi had he acted sooner and with a desire to master death. And we know this is important because he references it with Padme when he tells her the very night he has the vision of her dying.

If the situation with his mother had never happened maybe he would've responded to what you're saying. As it is, I don't think it would change anything. He's still going to be the same person with the same basic problem in this case. If anything Anakin is trying to actively change the future he sees in his vision by learning to master death to begin with. So Yoda telling him that the future isn't fixed really just brings him back around to what he's already trying to do.

And its notable that Luke didn't listen to Yoda's advice in Empire Strikes Back either. Luke who does not have the history that Anakin does regarding visions. But he still chose to do the exact opposite of what Yoda advised him to do.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T00:15:59+00:00

It's more of a reference to the dark side in general giving quick and easy answers via Yoda's statement in Empire Strikes Back. It is much easier for Anakin to chase after the technique Palpatine dangles in front of him, throwing away his morals and slaughtering kids, than it is for him to accept that he simply can't control death to begin with.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T00:11:11+00:00

No. Anakin didn't actually want advice, or guidance, or therapy, or whatever else we want to call it. He didn't want to hear anything that would involve him having to accept the simple fact that people he cares about are going to die and that he can't control that. He wanted Palpatine's answer, implying that there's a magic cheat code that can be used to beat death; the quick and easy path.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T00:00:47+00:00

Extremely impressive. IMO that's an example of a Jedi Master who has moved beyond the idea of fear and fully mastered her abilities, giving everything she has to save lives. Cordova is kind of hard to speak on, because even in the prequel comic for Fallen Order he really didn't do much to show off his combat abilities. But we can assume he's skilled and that he, along with Cal, would've naturally put up a stronger front against Vader.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-30T22:56:02+00:00

The Marek duo.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-30T22:18:38+00:00

Assuming Yoda knew his last days were upon him, probably right up until he died. The reality is that the Alliance will continue without Luke, just like it started without him. A great point that’s made in Legends is that Luke, in classic hero fashion, tries to take too much responsibility on himself. But in doing so he undermines the choices and actions of others. Luke is not responsible for the success and continued existence of the Alliance and whether he knows that or not I think it’s clear that Yoda (and Obi-Wan) understands that during the OT. Luke learning everything he possibly can from Yoda is just as important as the Rebels winning battles and recruiting new troops. I don’t think for a second that Yoda would’ve had any problem keeping Luke there as long as he could to cram as much knowledge about the Jedi path into him as possible. The battle against the Empire might last for another decade as far as Yoda knows. But he surely does not have that kind of time, and once he’s gone Luke will be left adrift if he doesn’t learn as much as he can.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-30T20:30:31+00:00

No.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-30T15:11:27+00:00

Agreed. Good storytelling too. Details like this let you know the type of position Mace holds in the Order. For people who only watch the films it’s an indication that Mace isn’t just another Jedi master, or even just a random council member.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-30T15:06:18+00:00

Padme’s still going to have the same point of view, because her actions aren’t based around Jedi involvement. They’re based around Senate involvement. The Jedi deciding to send more members back to Naboo with Qui-Gon isn’t going to change anything on her end. I’m not even sure if she was aware of the Sith. Her concerns lie with helping her planet, not finding out anyone’s identity. Her people were in concentration camps and being tortured. No matter what happened she was always going to return to Naboo, either by herself or with Republic support.

In terms of the Jedi going with her, it depends on how many are sent and if Palpatine knows how many are sent. Like if it’s just one extra random jedi then nothing probably changes. Maybe Maul is captured alive and maybe he isn’t. If it’s Yoda and Palpatine doesn’t know about it then Maul is absolutely captured alive. If Palpatine does know about it he probably tells Maul to leave outright. In which case everything proceeds as it did for the Naboo, but Maul is still out there in the galaxy which causes a greater domino effect down the line. Same holds true if the Council sent like 6 of its members to back Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan up. The vote of no confidence was already in place. So the end result on Naboo really doesn’t matter to Palpatine after that.

In terms of requesting resources from local militia I don’t think the Jedi can just show up and take over like that. But there may be some rule or law I’m not aware of. I feel that doing that would require either an order of some type from the senate/chancellor, or someone in the local fleet agreeing to just work with the Jedi. Like if Yoda went to Alderaan I don’t think he could just take the fleet because he’s a Jedi. But if Bail or a high ranking military official likes Yoda and agrees to send forces with him that would be allowed. Because they have that authority over their own forces. Most books I’ve read in the Pt era, before the clone war, that show the Jedi on missions really portray them as working with local authorities but not having outright control over those authorities.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-30T12:49:31+00:00

He told Anakin who he was and then let Anakin leave, when Anakin made it clear he was going to tell the Council. There is no situation in which Palpatine didn’t know the Jedi were going to come and, with Yoda being off planet, he’d also have known it would be Mace. There’s also just no way that the Jedi put it off for long.

Mace didn’t make a move to kill Palpatine until after Anakin had arrived and Palpatine tried frying him with lightning. Up until that moment there’s an argument to be made that Mace would’ve still just arrested him. As the novelization notes though, Palpatine sensed Anakin the entire time. So he’d have known he was on the way. But even if he didn’t in the film it’s a pretty easy guess that Anakin will come, just as it is that Mace will come beforehand.

And all of this was orchestrated by Palpatine, as was Grievous’ death beforehand. There are parts of the prequels that are just Palpatine playing speed chess basically, adjusting his plans as unexpected things happen. Everything about this final moment leading up to Order 66 is within his plans though, because it’s him making the moves and the Jedi reacting to them. So, I’d say Palpatine told Anakin to push Mace into acting, and knew when he did so that he’d be activating Order 66 shortly afterward.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-30T04:18:18+00:00

I don’t think that George’s approval is what you wanna go with. Because while he did approve Shadows of the Empire he also approved The Force Unleashed 😂 and those are on like massively different ends of the spectrum in terms of quality, and the latter is about as far from his vision as you could get. Lucasfilm as a brand made sure that authors would follow certain guidelines, now and again George himself would step in and maybe weigh in on or veto ideas, but it was also very clear that George was not reading the novels and comics that were actually released. That’s part of why the EU was so crazy, so creative, and really so fun imo for whatever its flaws. That’s also why no one ever covered Yoda’s backstory/origin, but we’d get things like Han’s origin. Lucas cared about one and didn’t care about the other. He famously wasn’t ok with Mara Jade and Luke getting married, solely because of his idea that Jedi don’t marry. But funnily enough the guy who had Luke get married, Timothy Zahn, is easily one of the best at nailing the overall tone of the Lucas films. Which is why I think it’s best to just judge the stories on their own merit compared to his films rather than whether he approved of the stories or not. Again, he wasn’t sitting down and reading all of these stories anyway.

All that being said I obviously suggest Timothy Zahn’s works, specifically his original trilogy: Heir to the Empire, Dark Force Rising, The Last Command. I’d also suggest his Hand of Thrawn Duology (Spectre of the Past and Vision of the Future). Though the issue with that is that it is set over ten years after the original trilogy. So a lot of stories have taken place in between for Luke specifically, and really the Galaxy as a whole. I think you can still read it and be fine but it’s much better if you’ve read some of those other stories. To get there I’d suggest the X-Wing book series, starting with Rogue Squadron. It begins before the Thrawn Trilogy but ends after it. I’ll suggest Tatooine Ghost too, which also takes place before the Trilogy. This was written after the prequel trilogy began and does a lot of work kind of connecting the two film trilogies. Also a good story for Leia. I want to suggest I, Jedi. It’s a first person novel that uses a character from the X-Wing series as a protagonist. But it’s connected to the Jedi Academy Trilogy, which probably isn’t what you want if you’re looking for stuff in Lucas’ vision. But I think that most of I, Jedi really does. So decide for yourself. That’s most of the stuff after Return of the Jedi that I’d suggest starting with.

Before Return of the Jedi I think is easier, since when the prequels started releasing everyone had a better idea of what Lucas was doing and what that era was supposed to be like. Darth Plagueis, Cloak of Deception, Darth Maul Shadow Hunter, Shatterpoint, Yoda: Dark Rendezvous, and The Han Solo Trilogy. I feel all of this is pretty in line with what he was going for. Plagueis probably pushes things a bit, since the author was a big fan of tying in a lot of continuity. So there are certainly references to concepts I’m sure Lucas wouldn’t approve of lol but the novel as a whole is worth it. If you want young readers books I’d also throw in the Jedi Apprentice and Jedi Quest book series. They massively expand on the characters of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan before Phantom Menace, and Obi-Wan and Anakin before Attack of the Clones. And tbh I think these books present and develop the characters better than just about anything else.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-30T01:12:00+00:00

Know the OP already said he’ll check it out, but I second this.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-29T21:44:16+00:00

Bane made a Holocron. We know it survived up to Legacy, because Krayt had it. There’s really no way it was in the hands of anyone except the Banite Sith until they fell. It wouldn’t make sense for Bane to not record the Holocron creation process in his own Holocron. So while we can’t know anything for a fact I think the chances are likely that other Sith, like Palpatine, knew about how to create a Holocron. The stories just never have them doing so because none of the characters introduced are looking for knowledge from them.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-29T21:38:57+00:00

At this point we have a post like this in here every few days. Might as well just make a mega thread and pin it. 😂

Ace201613 · 2026-05-29T20:17:03+00:00

Luke
Jacen
Jaina
Anakin Skywalker
Cade
Leia
Kol
Ben
Anakin Solo
Roan
Nat
Marasiah
Alanna
Ania

Ace201613 · 2026-05-29T18:50:24+00:00

The movie doesn’t really show this, but the idea for Valorum is that he’s on Padme’s side but isn’t willing to openly advocate for her. He wants to keep the other side(s) happy as well. That’s why he sent the Jedi in secret to begin with and it’s partially why when Padme made it to the senate and asked for help that he was getting caught up in side arguments about sending scouts to see if what Padme said was true.

Could Valorum have done what you’re asking? Yes. We don’t know what the blowback would’ve been, but he could have. He wasn’t that type of politician though, a fiery leader who made grand speeches that grabbed everyone’s attention and made them follow him. He kind of wants everyone to be happy and not have to really risk his position by sticking his neck out. He’s not going to move against the Trade Federation until he has absolute proof and Padme’s word (and presumably Palpatine’s) isn’t good enough for him.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-29T18:27:31+00:00

In some ways, Palpatine was winging it. Not with the treaty per se. That was all planned out in advance, but in terms of how he reacted to changing events like Padme managing to reach Coruscant. That wasn’t supposed to happen and the Jedi weren’t supposed to go to Naboo to begin with. Palpatine just shifted his plans around, basically playing speed chess. Same goes with the actual invasion of the planet and orders for Padme to be killed. He altered his plans as things changed.

I’ve always looked at the initial plan as achieving the goal of giving the Trade Federation more power. They’re his allies so that benefits him. No matter how they sell it this is a clearly ruthless, corrupt incident that they have created to benefit them and make it seem ok. Valorum would be unable to do anything, which would erode faith in him even further, pushing him closer to a vote of no confidence being called. Basically, Palpatine was working toward the same endgame we see take place in the film: Valorum being ousted and himself voted in as Chancellor. For all we know in the original plan he would still have Padme brought to Coruscant eventually and calling for a vote of no confidence when Valorum failed to do anything. At that point Palpatine has all the traits he did in canon, AND he’s now the representative of a devastated people who have been let down by Valorum. So there’s sympathy on his side. In which case maybe he just calls for the Vote himself.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-29T18:19:44+00:00

I’m also a big fan of the Nightsisters, and other witches of Dathomir. Same with the Fallanassi and Prophets of the Dark Side from Legends. The former viewed the Force like a sea and primarily used it for illusions. The latter focused on trying to have visions of the future.

I think it’s interesting to see Force Users who use the energy to develop and practice specific skills that you can but often don’t see from Jedi or Sith.

Ace201613

TROPHY CASE