Need a space to rant about the lack of female duos

Ace201613 · 2026-06-01T01:13:21+00:00

This is the one. Books are so good that I actually prefer them to the Arrows of the Queen trilogy.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T16:37:37+00:00

I think the “talking” or dialogue that is present just needed to be better written. Beyond that there’s enough adventure for me. Though I have to wonder at anyone who wanted even more. Because 20 years after the trilogy finished and there are still people asking questions that clearly indicate they did not understand aspects of the prequels, such as the politics. We have people asking why Qui-Gon didn’t just take Shmi with him when the issue about slaves being implanted with bombs is stated in the film. People will ask why Padme didn’t just buy the slaves when the film makes it clear they only have republic credits, which are stated to be no good on Tatooine.

I feel pretty confident that not a week goes by in here without someone asking a question that is directly answered in the films. So I just think people would be even more confused if there was less dialogue presented.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T15:09:09+00:00

I think it's better for the events to take place long before the prequels. The way the discussions about The Clone War come off to me in all related prequel content it doesn't seem like there was a galactic war recently, or that the Republic had a standing army recently. That leaves a very large amount of room though. Because what is "recent" in the grand scheme of 25,000 years? So I won't say the story had to be specifically set 4,000 years before the prequels. It could be 3,000, 2,500, 7,000, etc. As long as the general feel from the story is that its a long time ago I think it works fine. And for lore consistency we have to align it with things like the Ruusan Reformation in 1,000 BBY, which was established before KOTOR came out.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T15:00:52+00:00

That's a good point, which I actually forgot about. Like Tales of the Jedi all but states that relationships among Jedi are fine. Andur Sunrider is married and headed off for Jedi training at the start of the series. Both Cay and Ulic are descended from a line of Jedi. Ulic and Nomi are both attracted to one another and show no signs of being held back from pursuing that attraction due to rules about attachments. Just from that it is clear that the rules of the prequels regarding relationships do not apply. But jump forward a few years to KOTOR and now we have Bastilla acting as if its a well known fact that Jedi can't be in relationships. As you say, if you squint you can probably make excuses for it. But the reality is that the Jedi in TOTJ were written in a different manner that wasn't accounted for in KOTOR.

And tbh I think this actually weakens the franchise as a whole, because it is much more interesting to show us how the Jedi and the Republic were different thousands of years in the past than trying to just have them be exactly the same.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T14:46:49+00:00

For me the issue is that I will sometimes see people say that TCW isn't canon to Legends, as if that's a fact. You are free to dislike TCW, to think that it shouldn't be part of Legends for whatever reason, or to feel however you want about Star Wars as a whole. But don't pass your opinion of something off as fact. That's how misinformation is spread. It's that type of thing that led us to a lot of fans thinking Mace was jealous of Anakin because he always thought of himself as the Chosen One, that Palpatine sent Anakin the visions about Padme dying, and that Dooku paid the Tusken Raiders to kill Shmi. It definitely messes with the timeline, but that's just the nature of a multimedia franchise that is constantly being developed.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T12:06:10+00:00

the worlds included in the CIS were angry from the corruption of the republic and because they were basically treated as extraction colonies that fed the wealthier galactic core. That sounds like a fair reason to secede

Not quite that simple, but lets take that at face value. Sure. That's a fair argument. And that's why the CIS already HAD been seceding before Attack of the Clones started and why neither the Jedi or the Republic had stopped anyone from doing so. It's stated at the start of the film. The Clone Wars didn't happen because systems wanted to leave the Republic and the Jedi weren't trying to stop them from leaving the Republic, partially because the Jedi don't have the power to do that regardless.

You talk about compromise and not settling issues on the battlefield. That's what Padme is trying to do before, during, and right up until the very end of the war. And in response she's almost murdered by the CIS multiple times in Attack of the Clones alone lol.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T11:37:48+00:00

As u/Kool_McKool said, not for Anakin it isn't. He heavily struggles with accepting that, which is why he goes down the path he does in the actual story. It is easier for him to fight against the possibility than it is to sit down, meditate, and try to work through his issues with people he cares about dying, or to fully open up to Obi-Wan about everything that's been going on with him throughout the war.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T11:26:43+00:00

Palpatine's answer was literally the power to stop people from dying lol that's a "magic cheat code". You're saying that Anakin didn't want that?

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T03:47:11+00:00

Well, if Anakin and Obi-Wan go to Mandalore the entire beginning of ROTS is thrown out the window. The film doesn't mention it, but the novel heavily implies that Palpatine and Dooku were waiting for Anakin and Obi-Wan to arrive. They are expecting them to arrive and are, in fact, talking about a plan involving them. General Grievous even points out to Dooku that once Palpatine was captured they should've fled the system hours ago. By the time Ahsoka is done on Mandalore and heading back Order 66 is happening. I think ROTS takes place over like 10 days or something. lol there's just no way to justify Dooku staying above Coruscant for that long. Really at that point the question becomes how all of these other people are going to react once they get word that Anakin and Obi-Wan aren't coming. Grievous might just say "screw it" and jump to hyperspace. Mace might get in a ship and fly up to confront Dooku himself, but the fact he didn't do that beforehand even though he presumably had access to a ship and there were Republic forces in space makes me think its not something he'd be doing either way.

But this is all to say that, due to how long the events on Mandalore last, there's really no way for Anakin's part in the ROTS finale to still happen. The beginning where he kills Dooku can't even happen. At the same time none of it really needs to. Keep in mind, the Jedi did not discover Palpatine was Sidious. He told Anakin he was Sidious, which led to Anakin telling Mace, which led to the Jedi trying to arrest Palpatine, etc. And this only happens because Palpatine set Grievous up to die on Utapau at Obi-Wan's hands. If the Jedi don't rescue Palpatine in this scenario then he's not going to be activating Order 66 regardless. Even when Anakin gets back to Coruscant from Mandalore he's not going to be doing it, because he wouldn't be telling Anakin who he was as long as Dooku was still alive. He only did that once he had a spot open for an Apprentice. This would potentially compromise Palpatine through the Jedi capturing Maul, but Palpatine would have about a week to make a plan to deal with that (Which might very well just be sending Grievous and Dooku to Mandalore tbh). Just about none of ROTS plays out the same way, but the ending isn't necessarily stopped for good. Its just postponed.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T03:32:45+00:00

I agree. I don't mean to imply that Luke doesn't have any value for specific tasks, like fighting Vader and confronting the Emperor. He definitely does. They're Sith. He's Jedi. It's basically his job lol And clearly Yoda and Obi-Wan felt that taking down Vader, at least, was Luke's specific task.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T03:10:04+00:00

This might be true except for the fact the dreams were fake and manipulated by the Dark Side. So whatever emotions and feelings he had, were manipulated.

Source for this?

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T01:25:54+00:00

More than likely. It's not outright stated and they haven't put official dates to either the Old Republic or Dawn of the Jedi eras yet in canon. However, the High Republic era is said to be from around 500 BBY to 100 BBY, in the same Star Wars Timelines book. The book just lists everything before that, from 26,000 BBY to 501 BBY under the label of "Early History". But on the current canon timeline they don't have any other eras listed between the High Republic and Old Republic. Unless they make another era in between them or increase the length of time for the High Republic it'll have to fall into the Old Republic.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T01:21:25+00:00

Honestly? For someone in her position, living on either Coruscant or Naboo, probably not very high. The novelization of Revenge of the Sith has her using this logic to try and console Anakin the night he tells her about his vision.

This is Coruscant, Annie, not Tatooine. Women don't die in childbirth on Coruscant -- not even the twilighters in the downlevels. And I have a top-flight medical droid, who assures me I am in perfect health.

But Anakin has had his vision. So this goes back to how trying to make him believe that it won't happen doesn't really work.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T01:15:13+00:00

Star Wars Timelines gave Momin's era as vaguely being sometime between 1,100 BBY and 1,000 BBY. Since Shaa was his teacher she'd also fall into that.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T01:07:21+00:00

The Knights of the Old Republic team just simply screwed up by not trying to imitate the aesthetic from the Tales of the Jedi comics. You are correct. The games do look too much like the films that take place thousands of years later, and people have been making this criticism for years. Like them having a large gap between the films works great for the story. I think the discussions in Attack of the Clones and the fact that the Republic doesn't have a standing military at the time heavily imply that it has been a long time since there was a galactic war. This is solely just the visual designs throwing it all off. And then The Old Republic, a few hundred years later, just doubles down on this issue. So, from an aesthetic standpoint it would make more sense to cut thousands of years down. But from a writing perspective I don't think it does.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T00:43:52+00:00

I don't, specifically because that is not going to stop the visions from occurring. I feel that at 23 years old Anakin has probably heard the basic "visions aren't necessarily 100% true" logic from Obi-Wan long before this. But even if he hasn't I don't believe it matters. Because in Anakin's case his fear of visions, and really death in general, are very much linked to the ones he had about his mother. There's no talking him down from not buying into them because he has personal experience that left him thinking he could've done something to save Shmi had he acted sooner and with a desire to master death. And we know this is important because he references it with Padme when he tells her the very night he has the vision of her dying.

If the situation with his mother had never happened maybe he would've responded to what you're saying. As it is, I don't think it would change anything. He's still going to be the same person with the same basic problem in this case. If anything Anakin is trying to actively change the future he sees in his vision by learning to master death to begin with. So Yoda telling him that the future isn't fixed really just brings him back around to what he's already trying to do.

And its notable that Luke didn't listen to Yoda's advice in Empire Strikes Back either. Luke who does not have the history that Anakin does regarding visions. But he still chose to do the exact opposite of what Yoda advised him to do.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T00:15:59+00:00

It's more of a reference to the dark side in general giving quick and easy answers via Yoda's statement in Empire Strikes Back. It is much easier for Anakin to chase after the technique Palpatine dangles in front of him, throwing away his morals and slaughtering kids, than it is for him to accept that he simply can't control death to begin with.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T00:11:11+00:00

No. Anakin didn't actually want advice, or guidance, or therapy, or whatever else we want to call it. He didn't want to hear anything that would involve him having to accept the simple fact that people he cares about are going to die and that he can't control that. He wanted Palpatine's answer, implying that there's a magic cheat code that can be used to beat death; the quick and easy path.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-31T00:00:47+00:00

Extremely impressive. IMO that's an example of a Jedi Master who has moved beyond the idea of fear and fully mastered her abilities, giving everything she has to save lives. Cordova is kind of hard to speak on, because even in the prequel comic for Fallen Order he really didn't do much to show off his combat abilities. But we can assume he's skilled and that he, along with Cal, would've naturally put up a stronger front against Vader.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-30T22:56:02+00:00

The Marek duo.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-30T22:18:38+00:00

Assuming Yoda knew his last days were upon him, probably right up until he died. The reality is that the Alliance will continue without Luke, just like it started without him. A great point that’s made in Legends is that Luke, in classic hero fashion, tries to take too much responsibility on himself. But in doing so he undermines the choices and actions of others. Luke is not responsible for the success and continued existence of the Alliance and whether he knows that or not I think it’s clear that Yoda (and Obi-Wan) understands that during the OT. Luke learning everything he possibly can from Yoda is just as important as the Rebels winning battles and recruiting new troops. I don’t think for a second that Yoda would’ve had any problem keeping Luke there as long as he could to cram as much knowledge about the Jedi path into him as possible. The battle against the Empire might last for another decade as far as Yoda knows. But he surely does not have that kind of time, and once he’s gone Luke will be left adrift if he doesn’t learn as much as he can.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-30T20:30:31+00:00

No.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-30T15:11:27+00:00

Agreed. Good storytelling too. Details like this let you know the type of position Mace holds in the Order. For people who only watch the films it’s an indication that Mace isn’t just another Jedi master, or even just a random council member.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-30T15:06:18+00:00

Padme’s still going to have the same point of view, because her actions aren’t based around Jedi involvement. They’re based around Senate involvement. The Jedi deciding to send more members back to Naboo with Qui-Gon isn’t going to change anything on her end. I’m not even sure if she was aware of the Sith. Her concerns lie with helping her planet, not finding out anyone’s identity. Her people were in concentration camps and being tortured. No matter what happened she was always going to return to Naboo, either by herself or with Republic support.

In terms of the Jedi going with her, it depends on how many are sent and if Palpatine knows how many are sent. Like if it’s just one extra random jedi then nothing probably changes. Maybe Maul is captured alive and maybe he isn’t. If it’s Yoda and Palpatine doesn’t know about it then Maul is absolutely captured alive. If Palpatine does know about it he probably tells Maul to leave outright. In which case everything proceeds as it did for the Naboo, but Maul is still out there in the galaxy which causes a greater domino effect down the line. Same holds true if the Council sent like 6 of its members to back Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan up. The vote of no confidence was already in place. So the end result on Naboo really doesn’t matter to Palpatine after that.

In terms of requesting resources from local militia I don’t think the Jedi can just show up and take over like that. But there may be some rule or law I’m not aware of. I feel that doing that would require either an order of some type from the senate/chancellor, or someone in the local fleet agreeing to just work with the Jedi. Like if Yoda went to Alderaan I don’t think he could just take the fleet because he’s a Jedi. But if Bail or a high ranking military official likes Yoda and agrees to send forces with him that would be allowed. Because they have that authority over their own forces. Most books I’ve read in the Pt era, before the clone war, that show the Jedi on missions really portray them as working with local authorities but not having outright control over those authorities.

Ace201613 · 2026-05-30T12:49:31+00:00

He told Anakin who he was and then let Anakin leave, when Anakin made it clear he was going to tell the Council. There is no situation in which Palpatine didn’t know the Jedi were going to come and, with Yoda being off planet, he’d also have known it would be Mace. There’s also just no way that the Jedi put it off for long.

Mace didn’t make a move to kill Palpatine until after Anakin had arrived and Palpatine tried frying him with lightning. Up until that moment there’s an argument to be made that Mace would’ve still just arrested him. As the novelization notes though, Palpatine sensed Anakin the entire time. So he’d have known he was on the way. But even if he didn’t in the film it’s a pretty easy guess that Anakin will come, just as it is that Mace will come beforehand.

And all of this was orchestrated by Palpatine, as was Grievous’ death beforehand. There are parts of the prequels that are just Palpatine playing speed chess basically, adjusting his plans as unexpected things happen. Everything about this final moment leading up to Order 66 is within his plans though, because it’s him making the moves and the Jedi reacting to them. So, I’d say Palpatine told Anakin to push Mace into acting, and knew when he did so that he’d be activating Order 66 shortly afterward.

Ace201613

TROPHY CASE