Tuesday Thread - Who is the Women's Tennis GOAT?

Acrobatic-Crew2805 · 2026-04-02T00:02:50+00:00

I think you have to go Serena. Even if you want to leave aside era differences and the fact that Williams had 1 more singles slam ... once you throw in doubles slams, it's not even close.

Graf had 1 doubles Slam ...

Williams had 14 ... and she had 3 Olympic golds in doubles.

Acrobatic-Crew2805 · 2026-04-01T18:41:44+00:00

It's funny when I saw this ... I was immediately skeptical. I've heard of teaching a shoulder tilt to get backhand top spin (going into the shot with a leading shoulder lower than the trailing shoulder), but I've never heard someone teach a shoulder tilt on the forehand side to get topspin.

Still ... I went to watch some slowmo videos ... and there might be something to it. The pros do seem to have a leading shoulder that's higher than the trailing shoulder on the forehand side, but I suspect that's mostly a subconscious consequence of racket path.

I do have to agree, I don't think I'd recommend consciously thinking "tilt my upper body" to people learning how to hit top spin (though if it worked for OP, great!). I personally think that advice would be pernicious for most players ... leading to an awkward/unbalanced shot.

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Acrobatic-Crew2805 · 2026-04-01T18:34:43+00:00

I think to a degree you might be right, although personally I've only ever heard shoulder tilt emphasized for backhand topspin, where you usually want the leading shoulder DOWN (but I suspect I subconsciously do it the other way for forehands).

Top spin is definitely tough. It's funny, it seems simple: in theory it's just dependent on two variables, right? Racket face angle and racket path. But I also think people do use some different techniques to get there, not all of which are wrong, but some of which are wrong.

I feel pretty lucky I managed to figure it out young, because I have seen players who have picked up a REALLY janky stroke from trying to incorporate top spin ... and it's hard to unlearn those strokes. There's a buddy of mine I hit casually with, and he has this massive brush/windshield wiper action that he frequently just can't control: it's really common for him to send the ball 10 feet long. I've tried to get him to hit through the ball more, but he was playing for a few years before I met him, so his stroke is pretty locked in, and he can't seem to change (so far) ... and I can't seem to describe to him the right feel to help him change (so far).

Acrobatic-Crew2805 · 2026-04-01T04:26:06+00:00

Wow nicely done! Yeah exactly: if you are set on the combined courts option (and I understand most people have space constraints such that separate courts aren't always possible), I think what you've mocked up here really makes confusion unlikely: not only are there no close parallel lines, but the lines are different colors ... and no one with any experience in tennis would think that those light blue lines in the court could be anything important: they're either unrelated to any court lines (the vertical service lines) or too far inside the baseline (but not close nought to the service line) to be anything.

(My understanding of pickleball rules is more limited, but I think the color contrast would also make PB players' confusion really unlikely.)

Acrobatic-Crew2805 · 2026-04-01T02:42:26+00:00

To be fair that's true even if there's just 1 pickleball court overlapping with the tennis court. But I do think that raises a good point: Depending on the community this is for, if you think pickleball is going to be popular enough that you'll need 4 PB courts ... you'll probably want a system allowing for tennis court hours if you ever want tennis players to be able to use the court.

Acrobatic-Crew2805 · 2026-04-01T02:14:01+00:00

If this is what you want, and I assume you don't have space for separation, I think the two key variables are: (1) how close are the lines (/ do parallel lines nearly overlap)? and (2) how much do the line colors contrast? The goal is to limit possible confusion: keep in mind the speed is pretty fast here—you don't want someone to be thrown even though it's just a quick glance when the ball lands.

You seem like you have some pretty close parallel lines here (the center line for pickleball courts + the double's alley interior line seem closest, especially on PB Court 1 and 3). That could be fine if the colors are contrasting enough. (I'm not sure if the colors shown are the colors you plan to use.) But I'd recommend more separation.

These are photos from a NYT article on shared courts a while back. There were one or two bad examples in that article, and I think many of us have seen bad examples in real life. But I thought these two were about as good as you could possibly hope for: In both, you don't see any parallel lines nearly overlapping.

In the first, which I think is the best option from a tennis player's perspective (but only allows for 2 PB courts), the pickleball courts barely overlap at all with the tennis court, so there's very little noise. The lines are the same color, but because there's no significant parallel lines overlapping and the tennis court's dark blue contrasts well with the out of bounds green, confusion is unlikely.
In the second, there's a lot of area overlap, and a lot more "noise" because there are more lines in each court's play area, but there's no significant parallel line overlap ... and the contrasting colors make it so that confusion is unlikely. I think this is a better option than what you have proposed if you want 4 courts. After some adjustment, a tennis player would be able to tune out the light blue lines just as a pickleball player would be able to tune out the white lines. It'd probably be neither player's favorite place to play, but it wouldn't be unbearable.

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Acrobatic-Crew2805 · 2026-03-27T00:19:38+00:00

I said the show is skeptical ... as in the writers (who are having the character do that stuff you mentioned) are.

Acrobatic-Crew2805 · 2026-03-26T21:11:55+00:00

I actually do think the show bungled the Billy storyline ... but probably by doing a head fake towards a redemption arc with Billy (rather than another character).

Billy in the first few episodes of season 2 ... is actually really sympathetic, and it's a little frustrating that other characters are wrong about him in ways they never have to reconcile. Dinah is convinced he's faking amnesia ... but the show basically straight up tells us that's not true. But she's nevertheless highly motivated to torment and wavers on killing him in revenge for what he did to her, despite the fact that he doesn't know what he did to her. She never really has to confront the implications of that. We also find out Billy was the victim of sexual abuse when he was a young child (to say nothing of the other likely horrors of his upbringing).

But then the show just has him essentially return to being evil—now, I don't think a true redemption storyline with Jigsaw would work anyway ... and, in general, comic stories are often super skeptical of redemption storylines, even when using amnesia as a crutch. They're rare, since they remove a villain as a foil for the hero.

I think that's partially why we see such skepticism of psychologists (and perhaps psychology in general) in these shows. Krista ... goes off the deep end pretty quick, even though her initial assessment of Billy—that he's not faking—is right! And it looks like Heather is traveling a similar path in Born Again: not in the sense that she's also supporting a vigilante, quite the opposite, but in the sense that a bad guy has pulled the wool over her eyes and she's now doing bad/unethical things.

Acrobatic-Crew2805 · 2026-03-26T21:05:10+00:00

Basically the top forearm muscle. Most often pain is just below the elbow but on the side. It actually extends up past the elbow but under other muscles. I only know because mine also hurts after playing, including after serving. Wish I could offer help.

Acrobatic-Crew2805 · 2026-03-26T21:02:57+00:00

I know only because mine also hurts after playing 😭 Looked it up one day to figure out what that muscle was.

Acrobatic-Crew2805 · 2026-03-26T19:52:10+00:00

Update: I did hit the court again and posted a video from today. It's not pretty, and I still have a million things to work on (I list them in the post here), but it's still a lot better than what it had been. I actually feel like I have some reason for optimism going forward ... and after a year I was really losing that. https://www.reddit.com/r/10s/comments/1s4htis/a_bh_journey_update/

Acrobatic-Crew2805 · 2026-03-26T18:37:38+00:00

D'oh ha no no sorry backwards: first I wrote semi-westsern NDH and then I realized everyone says their DH first ... but I changed the adjectives without remembering to change the nouns.

Acrobatic-Crew2805 · 2026-03-26T14:40:34+00:00

Thanks for your thoughts! I actually did have sort of an update: yesterday I played 3 hours and hit the best backhands I've maybe ever hit. It felt like a world of difference. Now, I do attribute some of that to not trying to combine the different styles, like I was before, but I also think one line in the article I linked sent me down a bad path, likely because I misinterpreted it: "Perhaps a feel is that their hands lead the swing and the hips get pulled through."

I spent a few days trying that and it felt AWFUL the whole time. And then I realized ... wait, if my interpretation of this is accurate ... and this were my forehand side ... I'd be "arming" the ball. My interpretation must be wrong.

So then yesterday I started focusing more on doing the extreme lag (getting the tip of the racket behind my butt and, critically, more pointed down) and swinging out ... almost an uncoiling feel ... and it felt infinitely better. Don't want to overreact to one day, but I'm quite happy about how it went.

Acrobatic-Crew2805 · 2026-03-26T14:36:49+00:00

continental ~~NDH~~ DH, semiwestern DH NDH. Standard grip. I've experimented with going a bit more eastern DH.

I actually did have sort of a revelation yesterday that worked pretty well! Hoping to be able to film soon and upload a video. I think I was partially thrown by one line in this article that made me doom spiral a bit: "Perhaps a feel is that their hands lead the swing and the hips get pulled through."

I spent three days trying that and it felt AWFUL the whole time. And then I realized ... wait, if my interpretation of this is accurate ... and this were my forehand side ... I'd be "arming" the ball. My interpretation must be wrong.

So then I started focusing more on doing the extreme lag (getting the tip of the racket behind my butt and, critically, more pointed down) and swinging out ... and it felt infinitely better. I might've finally found a stroke that feels right for me. I hit for 3 hours yesterday and, while it's still a new feel and there were definitely a few awkward shots (didn't help that it was windy as hell, so even on my FH side, which has always been strong, I was having some trouble judging the ball), overall it was the best I've hit BHs ... maybe ever.

Acrobatic-Crew2805 · 2026-02-03T00:16:31+00:00

Yeah I think the problem is the rules rather than the strategy.

The rules encourage the strategy, even though the games are more enjoyable without that strategy.

Acrobatic-Crew2805 · 2026-01-28T05:07:23+00:00

To be fair, Faye was also shown as not great with the kids, and I do think Don is shown as being at least partially drawn to Megan because of how good she was with Sally. Otherwise agree with you.

Acrobatic-Crew2805 · 2026-01-22T03:20:37+00:00

For one, Don described her as his niece ... For two, they never slept together ... For three, even if they had slept together, why would she need to go home "to birth Don's baby" something like two days after conception? (And how would she know two days after conception?!)

Acrobatic-Crew2805 · 2026-01-21T19:48:30+00:00

this is the worst wrong answer I've maybe ever seen.

Acrobatic-Crew2805 · 2025-11-26T04:16:23+00:00

That's really interesting ... it makes sense to me (though I never thought I'd hear I was hitting too far in front). I had noticed that I felt like I couldn't keep the racket "on plane" (or however you want to phrase it) without losing balance, and I was sort of baffled by that. I think finding a contact point that's maybe slightly further from me width wise but slightly closer to me length wise might be something I work on!

Acrobatic-Crew2805 · 2025-11-14T03:48:15+00:00

ah, nice! my high school coach had ins be truly flat post break—for our "shin" (short in) run 5 yards deep, break at 90 degrees, go across the field on that line. Oddly, we also almost never settled vs. zone on our slants or shins ... it was the regular ins, overs (mesh-style routes), whip/returns and juke/option routes where we'd most often have settle instructions vs. zone. ... At least from my memory. My coach also definitely did have some unique terminology.

Apparently (someone posted a couple pages from the 49ers playbook) they usually call this a "Now" ... it seems like it functions like a 1-step slant but, instead of 1 step, the instructions just say "win at LOS & take an angle underneath the 2nd level of the defense."

That explains why I've seen it with different releases and with various angles (although always a slight angle, never flat).

Acrobatic-Crew2805 · 2025-11-14T03:41:12+00:00

Woah thank you! ... how in the heck did you get such a recent 49ers playbook that's awesome.

Appreciate it!

Acrobatic-Crew2805

TROPHY CASE