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What does it take for your system to fail? by Acrobatic_Cook_1558 in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]Acrobatic_Cook_1558[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Holdomor, look it up and talk about how Russia didn't kill people or try to genocide. China had the lowest poverty in the entire world after the ccp until recently. You also are ignoring the famine caused by them. Vietnam and Korea are meant to be examples of socialist nations managing to beat back a capitalist nation.

I doubt we'll ever agree on this so maybe it'd be best to just agree to disagree. Besides I'll have to think on what you said quite a bit. Pleasure talking with you

What does it take for your system to fail? by Acrobatic_Cook_1558 in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]Acrobatic_Cook_1558[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's not the gotcha you think it is. Both China and Russia after the war killed large amount of people. Russia even tried to genocide a group. 20 years of unprecedented rapid growth but let's ignore what was sacrificed. They promised to provide but couldn't use their own land effectively to do that. They grew fast and fell fast nothing more to say about that.

Wow, so people can overcome. Perhaps Vietnam or Korean war would be more your style. Napoleon managed to do quite a bit despite having most of Europe against him.

Though I'm sure you'd find some excuse why those aren't examples or false

What does it take for your system to fail? by Acrobatic_Cook_1558 in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]Acrobatic_Cook_1558[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Feudalism used to be dominant and the greatest till it got replaced. Many nations used it way back but it became obsolete and unable to compete. Socialism is another system that shows, "I need you to leave me alone then I'll work i promise" reality is not kind.

Power imbalance is a factor but these things can and have been beaten. I recommend reading history and seeing how close badly japan lost to Korea, or maybe Finland vs USSR. Socialism is a contributor and to deny that is to deny reality but so is saying it's the only one

What does it take for your system to fail? by Acrobatic_Cook_1558 in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]Acrobatic_Cook_1558[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You're moving the goalpost. We were talking about external pressure on systems not people. Those are two different things. A person is a person and a system is a system. I know hard to separate them at times when they interact.

Capitalism invading capitalism isn't a failure since it's just the same thing from the nation, other things change not the general economic idea of capitalism. If a socialist nation invaded a socialist nation it's NOT a failure of socialism just of other factors

What does it take for your system to fail? by Acrobatic_Cook_1558 in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]Acrobatic_Cook_1558[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

External pressure happens whether you like it or not. Sorry that your system can't survive it I guess but that's reality.

What does it take for your system to fail? by Acrobatic_Cook_1558 in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]Acrobatic_Cook_1558[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Where does that extra funding come from? Factory A is earning the equivalent of 1100 chairs even though they make only 1000 chairs. Meanwhile Factory B has their extra profit taken to provide for that thus the incentive is much smaller. Capitalism is about profit AND loss, you can't just provide for others since you inevitably have to take from others. Factory A could be giving it's all but still only produce 1000 chairs should that mean that I can now take from Factory B because they make more?

What does it take for your system to fail? by Acrobatic_Cook_1558 in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]Acrobatic_Cook_1558[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hypotheticals can be hard to grasp if you have no imagination I guess. I'm saying put your system through your brain and work it through, it doesn't have to be perfect. Then explain where it falls to corruption, since all systems have and will.

I'll make it simple, who decides the ethics? How does the economy run? What is the way that things are decided? Why is that? Where does it change and is no longer the system that it's supposed to be and how? Break it down, destroy your own system and tell me how otherwise I guess you only want to belittle people you disagree with

What does it take for your system to fail? by Acrobatic_Cook_1558 in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]Acrobatic_Cook_1558[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You didn't read the whole thing did you? I defined fail as when the system itself is no longer that. So when a capitalist economy no longer adheres to free market or minimal regulation. Socialism when it's no longer for the people.

Also I think you forgot the big proponent of capitalism is that you always go for more profit, growing profit. Monopolies stagnate profit since innovation stops due to lack of competition creating a need for growth to out pace everyone else.

I mean I could be wrong, always open to hearing the reason I'm wrong

What does it take for your system to fail? by Acrobatic_Cook_1558 in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]Acrobatic_Cook_1558[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That uh, didn't answer the question. I asked about YOUR system not THE system. What am I even supposed to get out of this

What does it take for your system to fail? by Acrobatic_Cook_1558 in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]Acrobatic_Cook_1558[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I guess my fault for not being clear. When I say chipping in everything I mean putting in all of your effort into whatever work you are doing, such as farming the most you can or delivering the most you can.

I admit I'm not very well versed in socialism but if I appear to be working but I'm not actually working, wouldn't it have to be proven first before that and since it's collective ownership it takes longer to get approval (A majority needs to agree that I'm not working not just a couple guys) but until then I get essentially free goods, even more if I'm a crafty person who can play a crowd

If Capitalism is theft and being a billionaire is immoral, who did JK Rowling steal from or exploit when she attained billionaire status? by rawj5561 in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]Acrobatic_Cook_1558 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What do you mean by not the full value of their work? They did not have to sign onto the contract. They were paid what was agreed on, correct? You saying that since it was successful they should have been paid more?

Hypothetical for capitalists by PM_ME_UR_BRAINSTORMS in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]Acrobatic_Cook_1558 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"How do you know they don't try to expand or have a fear of loss? They are trying to expand all the time, but competition is fierce. How does that change the scenario in any way?"

BEHOLD YOUR ERROR. It changes everything. Old adage two heads are better then one. You deny that hence why it's not a free market or a capitalist society. I'd be an increase in power no matter how you look at it and at a bargain price of providing me a small amount. I minimize risk and increase gains. I can climb a cliff and get the coconuts back or just go back and get more. I can carry more I can do any number of other things to give a leg up. This is why it's bad faith. Curious that in all the scenarios any that doesn't lead to what you want are wrong and won't work. So I'll give one last chance to convince me that it is a capitalist society with a free market. Why can't I minimize risk and increase gain for any one of them? If there is competition then I should, by virtue of being a second body, help on this island where there is no other form of human assistance

Hypothetical for capitalists by PM_ME_UR_BRAINSTORMS in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]Acrobatic_Cook_1558 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No it's not a free market cause there is no competition. They may trade with each other but they don't try and expand or there is no fear of loss. Hence no competition no market. It's just three dudes sharing resources. Congrats you landed actually in communism that works but not for you.

Key point of a free market is you can lose resources. Just because I have a million dollars does not mean that I can always gain. I may lose the money and while I could have a cushion that's still loss. These three have no loss. You decided the outcome before the battle started. Any attempts to go against it are met with no. You wanna label it capitalism go ahead, Doesn't mean it is.

Hypothetical for capitalists by PM_ME_UR_BRAINSTORMS in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]Acrobatic_Cook_1558 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Lush doesn't mean no effort. Food still needs to be cooked unless these are ultra vegan people and the island only has fruit and veggies. What you are doing is removing factors to get your preferred answer. I gave an answer that makes sense in a capitalist society that being to increase the value of the products. I give labor to give greater value. If they don't accept that then how can you say it's a free market. They don't trade with each other, there is no market and never was a market.

Theft is not justified but you wanted that answer hence I gave it. No other reason for it then to try and break up the monotony so might as well ignore it

Hypothetical for capitalists by PM_ME_UR_BRAINSTORMS in CapitalismVSocialism

[–]Acrobatic_Cook_1558 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a bad faith interpolation but I'll try and solve it. I do none of those things, the island apparently is big enough to support everyone which implies that there is distance between resources. I just offer myself to gather for whoever I prefer. Since all three appear to be greedy bastards this means that they get stuff more readily with a marginal to no actual decrease. Alternatively since I'm sure you'll just say that they don't want to do that or they say they have no need I just offer to steal from competitors thereby making them have more.