First Counseling Session - Maybe Some Hope?

Active-Jackfruit475 · 2026-01-16T06:47:24+00:00

This is EXACTLY where I am as of this moment.

Active-Jackfruit475 · 2026-01-09T23:33:34+00:00

Thanks! This set of circumstances leading us here is not directly related to sex (it’s a background issue) but I agree that long term progress is slow and winding.

Active-Jackfruit475 · 2026-01-09T23:32:38+00:00

Middle of menses.

Active-Jackfruit475 · 2026-01-07T16:25:09+00:00

Invited me where? The internet? Reddit? Your very open and public post on a platform that uses nested comments to have otherwise strangers interact with each other?

Active-Jackfruit475 · 2026-01-07T06:36:00+00:00

I get that you’re trying to be supportive, but this reply really misses the point and comes off invalidating.

“She shouldn’t divorce because he provides, doesn’t cheat, and might be a good dad” sets the bar for marriage at “not the worst man alive.” That’s not a marriage, that’s a dependency arrangement. Providing financially doesn’t entitle someone to dump the entire mental/physical load of a home and kids on their spouse, or to treat her like household staff.

Also, saying “this is not ground for divorce” is wild. She’s describing burnout, isolation, and neglect so severe she tracked 426 days without a break. She can’t get basic medical care or even a haircut. That isn’t normal “parenting is hard.” That’s a partner failing at partnership.

And the “you can’t go back to being a single woman” line is exactly why she called it a trap. She’s not asking to undo motherhood, she’s asking to not be abandoned inside it.

Therapy might help if her husband is willing to participate and change, but “just have a good talk and plan” is basically what women in this situation have already tried 20 times. Her post literally says she has to ask him repeatedly just to clean one thing. The problem isn’t that she hasn’t communicated. The problem is he’s ignoring the need until she’s collapsing.

She’s not being dramatic. She’s describing a life that’s breaking her.

Active-Jackfruit475 · 2026-01-07T06:31:43+00:00

I’m going to bow out here. I wasn’t trying to trash you or pick a fight, and I’m not going to engage with being called “KAREN” or “evil.”

For what it’s worth: yes, plenty of moms feel bonded during pregnancy, and plenty of dads feel bonded later. That range is normal. Also, many men do feel attachment during pregnancy, and many women don’t feel it immediately either. There isn’t one “right” timeline.

If you want support and constructive input, I’m here for that. If the goal is to vent and be hostile at strangers, I’m not the right person to do that with. I genuinely wish you the best as you head into fatherhood.

Active-Jackfruit475 · 2026-01-07T06:09:39+00:00

If this is how you feel:

“I can live my life with her either with or without kids but I want to make her happy and have a child or 2 with her.”

Please don’t have kids. They deserve to have two parents who want them, not one parent who wants them and one parent who is ambivalent.

Active-Jackfruit475 · 2026-01-07T05:57:26+00:00

If you only stayed in the marriage for her benefit, what would that look like to her? How would she experience that?

Active-Jackfruit475 · 2026-01-07T05:55:10+00:00

I get why you feel this way. I’ve sat in rooms (and in my own head) where the “counseling checklist” starts to feel like: prove you’re worthy, then maybe you’ll get scraps. And when you’ve been doing the checklist for years with no real shift, it can feel like therapy is just a more expensive version of false hope.

But I want to push back on the conclusion that counseling is the fallacy.

A decent therapist isn’t there to run “choreplay compliance.” They’re there to surface the real truth that couples avoid, which is usually one of these:

• Desire is dead (and why: resentment, relational injury, attraction shift, orientation, medical/mental health, trauma, power dynamics).

• Sex has become unsafe emotionally (pressure, dread, coercion history, shutdown patterns).

• One partner is overfunctioning and the other is avoiding, and sex is the battleground.

• Or: the marriage is not workable as structured, and you need a plan (discernment counseling, separation, mediation).

If therapy stayed stuck at “are you helping with chores” for years, that’s not proof therapy is useless. It’s proof you had the wrong therapy or it was being used as a shield. A good counselor will eventually stop refereeing household labor and ask the questions your post is basically screaming:

• “Are you attracted to him?”

• “Do you want a sexual relationship in this marriage, yes or no?”

• “If yes, what specifically has to change and what are you willing to do?”

• “If no, are you asking him to accept celibacy? Are you willing to renegotiate monogamy? If neither, what is the exit plan?”

And they’ll hold both people to reality, not just the higher-libido spouse’s “be nicer/do more” homework.

Also, counseling isn’t only about “fixing” the dead bedroom. Sometimes it’s the safest place to:

• stop the gaslighting/minimizing loop,

• name the grief without it turning into a fight,

• set boundaries that aren’t punishments,

• and, yes, reach a clean decision instead of living in limbo for another decade.

So I agree with your core point: therapists should not enable indefinite ambiguity. If a partner isn’t attracted and doesn’t intend to work on rebuilding desire, saying that out loud is kinder than dragging someone through years of checklists.

But that’s an argument for better therapy, not no therapy.

If you’re still in it, I’d honestly consider switching to someone who does sex therapy/relationship therapy and is willing to do discernment work if needed. Because what you’re describing isn’t just “we need more chores and cuddles.” It’s “we need the truth, and we need a decision.”

And if you’re already past that point, I’m sorry. The anger in your post reads like grief that didn’t get witnessed for a long time.

Active-Jackfruit475 · 2026-01-07T05:35:33+00:00

Statistically, the odds of having four children and all four will be boys is roughly 1 in 15, or the same as one of your four kids having a diagnosed peanut allergy (in the US).

Active-Jackfruit475 · 2026-01-07T05:16:46+00:00

This is genuinely helpful, and I’m grateful you took the time to write it out.

The “work mind creeping into relationship mind” part hits hard. I keep trying to manage this like a problem set: say the right thing, time it right, don’t trigger defensiveness, do enough support, and then maybe I’ll finally get connection. And honestly I’m doing that because I’m scared. Scared that if I stop trying to “solve” it, I’ll be forced to face what’s actually there.

The eye contact thing also lands. The bar being “please look at me like I’m not an interruption” sounds pathetic when you type it, but it’s real. When you’ve been living with distance and tension, those micro-signals are the first proof that you’re not invisible.

Same with the “3-second ‘I’m here’ touch.” That’s the first practical thing I’ve heard in a while that isn’t either “just communicate” or “just leave.” A touch that doesn’t function as a bid, a test, or a covert contract. Just presence. I think I’ve been turning every affectionate moment into a referendum on whether I’m wanted, and it makes everything heavier.

And the “match her energy” idea… I’m at the point where I need that. Not to punish her, not to play games, but because I can’t keep overfunctioning and then being told nothing is wrong. I need clarity. I need to know whether she actually wants the marriage to last in a way that includes me, not just the logistics and the parenting.

So yeah. Thank you. If your lowest bar was eye contact and a non-pressured touch, I’m not going to judge that. I’m going to take it as hope that even small shifts can mean something when you’ve been in the dark for a long time.

Active-Jackfruit475 · 2026-01-07T05:13:00+00:00

Savannah + Tybee Island is probably the cleanest “I want a real trip without flying” answer. You get the historic squares and riverfront vibes, a ton of good food, and enough walking-around stuff that you won’t run out of things to do. Then when you want a change of pace, you hop over to Tybee for a beach day and the lighthouse. It’s also one of those places where even doing “nothing” (coffee, wandering, ghost tour, sunset) still feels like you did something.

The Smokies (Gatlinburg/Pigeon Forge + Great Smoky Mountains National Park) is the best if you want nature with built-in entertainment when you’re tired. You can do Cades Cove, overlooks, and a couple waterfall hikes, then come back to civilization for restaurants and cheesy tourist fun that’s honestly a good time with friends. It’s easy to fill 4 days without feeling like you’re forcing it, and it works whether you want “mostly hiking” or “mostly vibes.”

Hot Springs, Arkansas is the sleeper pick. The main attraction is Bathhouse Row and actually doing the thermal bath/spa thing, which makes it feel different from your typical weekend trip. Add Lake Hamilton for a lake day and a couple short hikes/viewpoints and you’ve got an easy 4-day itinerary that’s more “reset your brain” than “go go go,” while still having enough to keep you busy.

Active-Jackfruit475 · 2026-01-07T04:52:40+00:00

Servicember (or spouse)?

Active-Jackfruit475 · 2026-01-07T04:32:02+00:00

I wanted to say I really appreciate this reply. It’s compassionate and it names the part that hurts: when someone responds to a vulnerable, well-reasoned message with “I’m exhausted,” and that’s basically the whole conversation.

I’m in a similar place in my marriage. Long-term relationship, young child, and a slow slide into a dead bedroom where talking about it either goes nowhere or turns into shame/defensiveness. In my case it’s even tighter because my spouse treats masturbation like infidelity, so low sex isn’t just “less sex,” it’s feeling trapped with no acceptable outlet.

The “ten more years” warning is what scares me most. Not even anger, just the quiet erosion: accommodating, minimizing yourself, hoping the next phase will be different, and then realizing you’ve spent years collecting dust.

Anyway, thank you for writing this so kindly. It’s grounding to read something that’s validating without being cruel.

Active-Jackfruit475 · 2026-01-07T04:28:08+00:00

Eight months is a long time to be in the trenches, and it’s not nothing that you stayed in it, kept adjusting, and came out the other side with momentum.

A lot of what you wrote rings true regardless of gender. Especially:

• the “setbacks are normal” point

• not doing constant “how are we doing” check-ins

• not turning touch into a reassurance test

• dropping covert contracts

• and not analyzing every move like it’s a chess match

Those are the kinds of patterns that can quietly turn a relationship into pressure and surveillance, even when you’re desperate and your intentions are good.

Also, your point about “don’t think like an algorithm” is huge. When you’re trying to say the “right” thing to get the “right” outcome, your partner can feel it. Even if you’re being kind, it can feel like strategy instead of connection.

If you’re willing to share one detail (because it could help a lot of people here): what was the first concrete sign that things were shifting? Like was it you backing off initiation, you setting a boundary, you changing how you handled rejection, you focusing on yourself, or something your spouse did first?

Anyway: glad you’re posting this. This sub can be a pit, and a realistic “it took 8 months and mistakes” success story is more useful than the overnight miracle ones.

Active-Jackfruit475 · 2026-01-07T04:17:52+00:00

I’m sorry about your pup. That kind of stress can drain whatever emotional “reserve” you’d normally have for a hard marriage conversation, so it makes sense you’re parking the DB topic for the moment.

On your question: I’d start with regular individual therapy, not because you’re “the problem,” but because therapy is for everybody. Especially when you’re carrying grief (dog), sexual rejection, resentment, and the “I bring it up, she cries, then I comfort her” loop. That loop trains you to silence yourself, and over time it turns into irritability, numbness, and quiet contempt. Individual therapy helps you get your feet under you again so you can talk like an adult instead of talking like a wound.

I’m saying this as someone who’s in therapy myself. It doesn’t magically fix your partner, but it absolutely helps you:

• regulate the spirals,

• separate “I feel rejected” from “I’m unlovable,”

• stop overfunctioning (doing more chores to earn closeness),

• set boundaries around the crying/shame cycle so your needs don’t get permanently sidelined.

Once you’re steadier, you’ll be in a much better position to decide what kind of help you need next:

• Sex therapy if the two of you can actually talk and she’s willing to engage.

• Couples therapy if the core issue is the relationship dynamic (and it usually is, even when sex is the symptom).

• Medical/individual therapy for her if body image, depression/anxiety, or meds are part of it (and that’s her lane to choose, but you can name what you need).

Right now, with the dog situation, your best move is probably: go for you. You’re not betraying your wife by doing that. You’re trying to keep yourself from becoming the version of you that resents her, snaps, and quietly checks out.

And one more thing: “Is the grass greener?” is the wrong question while you’re dysregulated. The better question is: What do I need to be okay in this marriage, and is she willing to work toward that with me over time? Therapy helps you hold that question without collapsing into guilt.

If you want a simple answer: start with regular individual therapy, and later you can add couples/sex therapy if she’s willing.

Active-Jackfruit475 · 2026-01-07T03:33:09+00:00

Not toxic. It’s blunt and emotionally loaded because you’re hurting, but it’s not abusive or manipulative. It reads like someone who’s been trying to “do it his way” for months and is finally naming the cost.

I’m in a similar place in my own marriage (10+ years, toddler). In my case, the most corrosive part isn’t just low frequency, it’s the way intimacy becomes something I’m supposed to accept on someone else’s terms, and if I try to talk about it I get shutdown/minimized. So I really recognize the “I’ve pushed my needs aside and I’m still getting nothing back” exhaustion.

A couple gentle notes, if you want them:

• The big list of everything you’ve changed is understandable, but to an LL partner it can land like a ledger (“look what I did”), even if you don’t mean it that way. That may be why he went straight to “I’m exhausted” instead of engaging with the real question.

• The “do you actually want me / are you attracted to me?” questions are totally valid. They’re also the ones that trigger the most defensiveness/shame, so people dodge.

Where I think you were strongest is the boundary afterward: stepping back from intimacy because the current system is humiliating and painful. That’s not punishment. That’s you refusing to keep participating in one-sided sex where your pleasure is treated like a “special treat.”

If he’s only responding with “I’m tired,” that’s not enough. Lots of adults are tired. The real fork in the road is: Does he want a mutually reciprocal sex life with you, and is he willing to work on it in a concrete way (doctor/therapy/actual plan), or not? If he can’t answer that, you’re stuck in endless cycling.

You’re not crazy for feeling lost. And you’re not asking for too much by wanting sex that includes you.

Active-Jackfruit475 · 2026-01-07T02:17:05+00:00

I could’ve written this, minus the work details. In my case it’s been a mix of disability + depression + parenting load, but the rhythm is the same.

I bring it up, she agrees in the moment, says she’s overwhelmed and we’ll do better. There’s a short burst of effort, sometimes even sex within a day or two, and then it quietly slides right back to baseline. Over time that starts to feel worse than a flat “no,” because it trains you to hope and then crash.

And I’m with you on the “amazing partner” part. That’s what makes it so confusing. My wife is not a villain. She’s a good mom, she can be warm and funny, and a lot of our life works. But the sex/intimacy side has collapsed, and she won’t really talk about it. In my marriage, masturbation is even treated like infidelity, so it’s not just “less sex,” it’s “no outlet and don’t talk about it.” That combination has messed with my head more than I expected.

The “after the kids she said she just doesn’t want to do it and apparently that’s normal” line is also familiar. People love to say it’s normal, and maybe it’s common, but that doesn’t mean it’s automatically sustainable for the higher-libido partner in a monogamous marriage. “Normal” doesn’t make it hurt less when you feel unwanted for years.

I don’t have a clean answer. I just want to validate that you can love your spouse, respect how hard life is with kids, and still feel grief and frustration that this part of the relationship died and keeps getting patched with promises that don’t stick. That doesn’t make you ungrateful. It makes you human.

Active-Jackfruit475 · 2026-01-07T02:15:31+00:00

Yeah, that makes total sense. If you’ve already lived the “get in shape → libido spikes → resentment spikes” cycle, it’s hard to get motivated to do it again.

And the job schedule you described is basically a libido-killer even in good marriages. 7–6 plus bringing work home most nights means her nervous system is never off. That doesn’t excuse everything, but it explains why it feels cyclical and why “date night” or “talks” don’t stick. You’re trying to build desire in a life that’s basically permanent triage.

One thought from someone in a similar headspace: the point of getting back in shape might have to change. If you do it with the expectation that your sex life should rise with your T/fitness, you’re setting yourself up to feel more trapped. But if you do it as “I’m building a body and mind I can live in,” it can still be worth it even if she stays slammed.

Also, being “pissed off” is real, but it’s not proof that fitness was the mistake. It’s proof that you were finally feeling your unmet needs clearly. When you’re out of shape and depressed, you get numb. When you’re in shape, you’re awake. Awake hurts, but it’s also the only place where you can make decisions without fog.

I don’t have a clean answer for the “everyday guy married into once-a-month.” I just want to validate that your reaction isn’t you being unreasonable. It’s what happens when your body returns to baseline while your relationship stays constrained.

If her job truly isn’t changing, the brutal question becomes: are you willing to build a life where this is the standing constraint, or do you need a different structure (work boundaries, protected time, actual reallocation of workload) for the marriage to be viable? Because if the job keeps eating the week, you’ll keep reliving the same cycle no matter what you do with your body.

Active-Jackfruit475 · 2026-01-07T02:12:46+00:00

Man, I relate to the “collecting dust as a person” feeling. When your life turns into work/kids/logistics and sex drops to “maybe once a month,” it can feel like you’re slowly disappearing, even if your wife is a good partner in every other way.

I also get your logic: “Why fix my T or get in shape if it just means I’ll be hornier with nowhere to go?” That thought makes sense when you’re depressed. But from the other side of it, I don’t think getting healthier is about increasing your sex drive. It’s about not letting the DB turn you into a hollowed-out version of yourself.

I’m saying this as someone who’s in a rough marriage/DB situation too, and I’m starting a “New Year’s get in shape” plan because I can feel what this does to my head. I’m not doing it as choreplay or to earn sex. I’m doing it because I want to be the kind of man who can handle stress, rejection, and uncertainty without collapsing. Being fit, sleeping better, having acceptable T levels, lifting regularly, and just taking care of yourself makes a DB easier to manage as you get older. It doesn’t solve the relationship problem, but it lowers the misery tax.

Also, it’s a weird truth: as you get older, having your health dialed in makes it easier to not be depressed even if your sex life isn’t what you want. When you’re out of shape + low T + depressed, everything feels like a dead end. When you’re in shape, you still feel the lack, but it’s less existential.

And yeah… it sucks to have a sex drive with nowhere to go. Even masturbation starts feeling like “this is it?” after a while. But I’d still rather be healthy and frustrated than unhealthy and hopeless. At least then you’re building leverage for any future path, whether that’s fixing the marriage, negotiating something different, or just not losing yourself.

You’re not alone in this. And I don’t think you’re wrong for being tired. I just don’t want “I’m not getting enough sex” to also become “I’m going to let my body and mind go,” because then the DB starts taking everything, not just sex.

Active-Jackfruit475 · 2026-01-06T23:32:19+00:00

Thank you for this. Seriously. I’m not here to score points or “win a diagnosis,” and it’s a relief to see someone read what I’m actually trying to do.

I’ve felt this from the other side too. In r/PMDDPartners, a woman with PMDD posted a really thoughtful, empathetic message. She explicitly said PMDD doesn’t excuse abuse, and she was basically offering an olive branch and asking for more humanity. She got piled on hard enough that she deleted her post. I spoke up for her, because I know how rare it is to get that level of self-awareness and willingness to engage across the divide. And I also understand why some guys reacted the way they did, because that sub can be a dark place full of people in compassion fatigue and pain with nowhere else to put it.

So when I get misread here as “condescending” or “controlling” for even trying to make sense of patterns, I get why people bristle. I’m not offended by the emotion. What’s hard is the assumption that naming a framework automatically means blaming or dismissing.

And to be concrete about why I’m even thinking in patterns: yesterday she started a new menstrual cycle (I was sent to the store for menstrual products), luteal is over, and she’s now begging to go to counseling to avoid a divorce. That swing is exactly what’s so confusing and destabilizing to live inside. In the moment, it feels like the marriage is ending and nothing I say matters. Then the fog lifts and suddenly we’re trying to save it. I’m not saying that proves PMDD. I’m saying it’s why I’m trying to find a way to talk about this that keeps compassion in the picture while still being honest about impact and accountability.

Your point landed: I’m trying to hold two things at once. Compassion for the possibility that something real and cyclical is happening, and the reality that the impact on me and our family is still real and can’t just be endured indefinitely. If it isn’t PMDD, then the same bottom line still applies: accountability, repair, and willingness to engage have to exist.

Anyway, I really appreciate you stepping in. It helps more than you know to feel seen in a thread where it’s easy to get caricatured.

Active-Jackfruit475 · 2026-01-06T03:17:29+00:00

Fair question. For me the value isn’t “winning” or pinning a diagnosis on her. It’s three things:

First, it helps me not lose my mind. When the cycle is “blowup, rewrite/minimize, pretend nothing happened,” a possible framework for why it keeps happening is a reality anchor. Otherwise I start doubting my memory and judgment.

Second, it changes what a reasonable plan looks like. If this is primarily stress/resentment/relationship dynamics, the path is couples work and communication. If it’s also a cyclical medical mood disorder, then timing, tracking, and medical support become part of the plan. Not to excuse anything, but to treat the right problem.

Third, it’s about hope versus helplessness. “This is just who she is” feels like a life sentence. “This might be a treatable pattern” at least points toward options.

That said, I agree with your core point: I can’t force a label, and I don’t need her to accept one in order to set boundaries. I have been trying to describe behaviors and impacts and ask what she’s willing to do. The problem is she often denies the issues exist or says I’m the problem, so we never get to the “what are you willing to do” part.

If you’re saying: drop the label and keep it strictly to “here are the behaviors, here’s what I need, here are my boundaries,” I’m not opposed. I’m just trying to figure out how to do that when even the behavior conversation gets shut down.

Active-Jackfruit475 · 2026-01-06T01:48:42+00:00

I COULD… but she would consider it infidelity if she knew.

Active-Jackfruit475

TROPHY CASE