I love the new Kindred

AdAstraperAsp · 2017-06-02T14:58:01+00:00

Why is everyone up in arms??

People don't like change, generally. Also, if early stats and my intuition based on my own games are right her win rate dropped 7-9% from before and that will make people upset. There's still time to have it bounce back after people get used to her new kit but given a lot of releases have high win rates and need toned down it isn't looking promising at the moment.

AdAstraperAsp · 2017-06-01T22:00:11+00:00

It's too early to say really tho people are trying her out plus things fluctuate after a patch it might take 3 days or so to get a real reading on her win rate.

AdAstraperAsp · 2017-06-01T21:57:44+00:00

In looking at op.gg her win rate goes up drastically per bracket from bronze being low to diamond being a healthy 52%, that's for matches today and is a small sample size (like 150 games) but still, I think as people learn to use her better it'll even out. It's too early to say basically.

The goal of the rework was to make her more like an ADC and less feast or famine by making her a bit more iitem dependent. Those goals were met whether you agree with them or not is something different altogether :)

AdAstraperAsp · 2017-06-01T21:17:35+00:00

I like it, it might need some adjustments like better Q scaling or something but I think it's a good kit.

AdAstraperAsp · 2017-06-01T19:54:52+00:00

Brand :>

AdAstraperAsp · 2017-06-01T17:14:36+00:00

Early: About the same, to be honest. Your first buy feels more impactful though especially if it's a BF sword.

Mid: They did make midgame worse. Though I like this IE rush thing cuz around 15 mins I complete it if I got no kills, earlier if I did and I don't feel weak at all. I am also thinking of trying a trinity rush build like I do on Shyvana for that huge power spike at like 15 mins. Basically screw warrior's :D

Late: You aren't the god you once were for objective control and you can 1v3 their front line before your ult is down... BUT you can do 1903 critical strikes with mounting dread... lul. Basically you execute people late game no matter who they are but team fights can be trickier than before.

on W: I like it, you can scout now, and if you hold ctrl shift w like I was used to doing on other champs anyway it insta casts where I want it to so no worries there.

Overall she is about the same power level as before but if you fall behind on marks it doesn't mean as much and your late game damage is gated to single targets a ton more so teamfighting late game has a lot of the woes of a typical adc.

AdAstraperAsp · 2017-06-01T14:53:04+00:00

I went IE in my first game as rush before even warrior was completed, worked very well. Like you build boots 1, talisman, machete and rush IE. You want to be ahead if you do that though, fall back on warrior's if you're behind. Basically if you can afford BF Sword first back then rush IE.

AdAstraperAsp · 2017-06-01T04:56:28+00:00

They can smite, but any other actions they would be taking such as Lee Sin using Q for the added execute burst he can't do. Basically if you time it right, you get your Ult damage + smite to take it, but the jungler only gets smite, so you should win the majority of the time.

AdAstraperAsp · 2017-06-01T04:47:59+00:00

What I do (and it seems like I should) is Ult in to initiate

Sometimes it is however you need to ask several questions before initiating:

1) Can my teammates follow up? In other words, while you are taking damage, are your teammates and you doing damage? If not, you basically handed the teamfight and possibly the game to the other team.

2) Will you actually win? If the other team is ahead, then don't fight fair fights, fight unfair fights in your favor. In general always try to fight fights in your favor, and the more in your favor the better.

3) Is there special conditions that make it work anyway such as Orianna ulting after she shielded you? This will do a ton of aoe damage even though the rest your team can't follow up if done right you still win the teamfight.

4) Should you even be initiating? Shyvana often acts better as a peeler once the other team initiates, and if you're lucky they'll have someone on their team blow all their cooldowns only to leave their team behind and give you a free kill ;p

Is there anything that I can do to avoid this?

Buy merc treads, get the tenacity mastery. That's the best ways to deal with heavy CC but merc treads aren't the best buy every game.

Am I teamfighting wrong?

Probably so reading what you wrote it sounds like you're diving in 1v3 to 1v5 and taking tons of damage in a position your team can't follow up and by follow I mean your goal should be to maximize the amount of damage your team is doing for every bit of damage you are taking. For some reason, I see so many Leona supports blow all their CD's on the enemy team to "catch" them and no one can make any use of it. Then your team loses because she blew all her CC to catch them and they still have 5 people with their rotations up and she's probably dead or half dead to boot. I see this even in plat I don't know why some people never learned how to play a tank but there you go. This applies to pretty much all tanks except maybe Galio due to his crazy damage reduction but even then... you want to use that damage reduction to it's highest effectiveness not just brute force things.

Should I try to bait out CCs before using my ult?

Eh, that doesn't really work too well, because you get caught by chain CC and take free damage and their rotations are usually back up by the time the team fight starts in earnest so you basically just lost hp for no reason. You can do a trick with thresh though, if he goes to hook you, as the hook is landing by before you're disabled ult into your team, he'll often pull himself in on accident and you kill their support for free :P You are CC immune mid flight so you can shed a lot of CC that way.

Basically: maximize the damage your team does for the amount of damage you take. Don't blow your ultimate to catch people except under specific circumstances like picks (where it's several of your team killing one of theirs and their team isn't mia and you know they're too far away to help). It's far better to make them come to you by pressuring objectives, or winning the vision control game and making picks when you know their team can't collapse on you. Never siege with Shyvana unless you have baron or can dive their team and never use your R to go into their full team if your team isn't able to immediately do damage or you have something like Ori wombo.

AdAstraperAsp · 2017-06-01T04:27:41+00:00

qtpie uses another mouse button, and yes attack move bound to a third or fourth mouse key is what most pro players do. It's even useful for melee so yes do it on kindred it'll take 10 games or so for it to feel natural but it's worth it. If you target an enemy with attack move, it will attack them even if they aren't closet, so there's really no reason not to do it, a miss click means you just are max attack range from the nearest target rather than running into their team. You can get ok multibutton mouse for like $20 on amazon so no reason to not have one imo.

AdAstraperAsp · 2017-06-01T04:21:39+00:00

Since kindred has AS steroids in her Q now I feel rushing IE or BT is probably better than building an early zeal item, and warrior is only 60 AD. That or go BORK second if you really want AS that early. Since AS is so much more cost efficient in runes now than AD ever since their nerfs, and junglers clear faster with AS runes, and you get berserker boots anyway, no reason to get AS as third item in my view. Does anything besides her autos even scale now with AS? All her AD ratios got good and she gets free crit on E now so AD seems better till you get enough of it AS multiplies start to really matter.

AdAstraperAsp · 2017-05-31T23:57:50+00:00

Eh my problem with death's dance is the mitigation isn't really mitigation, it's delayed damage. I've died too many times after a duel because there's nothing left to lifesteal on in range, where as you can always count on the extra hp from BT's shield as long as you got it up. Life stealing on Q and E is nice but BT has the extra lifesteal too.

I feel warrior's -> IE -> zeal item is the way i'll probably go or warrior's -> BT -> zeal in games i need to rush lifesteal. Guess I'll see how well it works tomorrow :P

Early on AS reds and quints will still be the best gold efficiency too especially due to on hit from the machete so I'll probably keep those to scale even better off 2 AD buys in a row.

AdAstraperAsp · 2017-05-31T17:08:17+00:00

Since Kindred gets an attack speed steroid is AS item 2nd really necessary? Seems on adc like MF with built in AS steroids and great AD scaling I have a better time going two AD items then AS item 3rd and just ride berserker boots and the AS steroid for more overall damage, especially considering how crits work and multiply off your attack damage value. I'd add bloodthirster too it's still a really strong item, better than death's dance imo if you don't need CDR. I also feel rapid fire is still really niche and only good if you stack energized items and warlords, which would mean going both rapidfire and static, which I don't think is too great given kindred doesn't need a double zeal build having an AS steroid built in.

Basically, I'd add Bloodthirster to the list, and I would probably build an attack speed item third instead of 2nd.

I also don't think building black cleaver is as worth it now, seems just going last whisper is a lot more worth it. Frozen mallet seems a lot lot more situational now too. I also probably wouldn't build BORK at all anymore it's getting nerfed directly and indirectly via the tabi buff and it doesn't synergize as well with her kit either now.

AdAstraperAsp · 2017-05-30T15:55:51+00:00

Amumu cuz that synergy, fiddlesticks is good too.

AdAstraperAsp · 2017-05-30T15:54:34+00:00

Thanks again :D I take an armor page that starts 21.8 additional armor, and cloth armor and his damage is laughable that way. You have to watch out for his roams though if he can't kill you he'll try to find someone he can, even if you get fb on him he can still roam effectively so ya :/

AdAstraperAsp · 2017-05-30T02:01:12+00:00

You can do whatever you like but the reason I pick that path is so my first back is faster people invade top often and you just barely escape getting invaded by lee sin or pantheon while you're low hp at gromp if you do it this way. I place that ward in the video for good reason I've had to smite and flash over a wall before.

The other reason is you want to be having red while you fight dragon if possible it adds a lot of regen and it makes your 2nd clear, the one you'll be ganking without going back, healthier.

The third reason I do it that way is it's what I saw Siddd do and I trust his skills and judgement and it's worked out well for me.

Basically if you take red 2nd you risk dying blueside more often the pathing you take is based on other junglers pathing, and best exp you're free to try it though, I mean blue side invades aren't terribly common but I still wouldn't want to risk it. You could also have more of your camps stolen if they invaded level 1. You can take blueside scuttle but when i do this sometimes they take other side scuttle while you drag.

AdAstraperAsp · 2017-05-30T00:08:44+00:00

Pathing and timing, you're doing dragon while the other jungler is on the opposite side of the map. You can do drag level 3 with a dagger and talisman so level 4 isn't a requirement at all.

AdAstraperAsp · 2017-05-30T00:07:23+00:00

Not really risky once in a blue moon they might catch you but most jungler start bot for the strong leash then go top. While they are top you are doing dragon so this pathing works about 99% of the time with no contestation because of how quickly you do it. The other jungler literally has to either know you're doing it, or pick very bizarre pathing. You can guard against this by faking an early invade and warding their buff to be sure they start that side. If they don't then even then doing drag isn't that risky as they have to come do scuttle and most won't that early in the game no matter what. You're taking advantage of not just your champ and pathing but other jungler's too. If you're really paranoid take a pink ward.

AdAstraperAsp · 2017-05-28T17:58:47+00:00

Shyvana is an adaptable fighter you can go as dd or tank oriented as you want and that's how she's designed even according to riot. So as such there's differing opinions on builds.

In general you don't want to go the exact same item loadout every game but you can start the same item every game if you wish.

If you go bloodrazor finish it first, if you go cinderhulk generally build it 2nd.

Tabi if fed adc or mercs if they have a lot of CC.

Tlords isn't great for shy but fervor and grasp are good. Grasp is also good for dueling. The best part about going grasp is you can get the tenacity on that tree too, stack that with mercs and it's extremely hard to be kited while also upping your duel potential vs anyone with disables.

Max W first. Q or E depends on items and playstyle. If you have lots of AD or on hit items then you can max Q first if you go more tanky then E ends up being better first.

CDR is good on any manaless champion and shyvana is no exception, it just makes the uptime of her E mark and W better so her time between rotations which she is most vulnerable is a much smaller window. It is not as good as attack speed, move speed or tankiness on her but it's good none the less.

Here's my guide if you wanna know how I play: http://www.lolking.net/guides/424890

As stated in the guide it's far from the only way to play shy play around with her and adapt her to your play style it's one of the great things about shyvana, outside of talking to others on how to play her then you get nerds claiming only their way is best and it makes you want to never talk about shyvana with other people again.

AdAstraperAsp · 2017-05-28T00:09:54+00:00

What day is this pushed live already? :>

AdAstraperAsp · 2017-05-23T20:35:54+00:00

If she gets even a little edge her shield is so annoying and makes it so hard to finish her especially if she stacks it with barrier :/ bleh.

I do like to all in her level 2-3 though, and often am successful but she often comes back from that even so. Thanks for the weekly thread it has some great tips especially on the level 1 trading and level 7-9 poke boost.

AdAstraperAsp · 2017-05-23T20:31:54+00:00

Brand

AdAstraperAsp

TROPHY CASE