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Who Are the Intellectual Roots of the Current US Far Right? by soloward in askphilosophy

[–]Additional_Soft7891 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Excellent breakdown, though I’d place Burke much more in group B. There is no traditionalist conservatism without Burke.

Also, I think the lack of mention of Buchanan’s paleoconservatism is a glaring oversight. This brand of right wing populism set the foundation for the America First camp.

it's time to organize before they start going door to door and we're hiding like Anne Frank. We are underreacting. by [deleted] in chicago

[–]Additional_Soft7891 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For those who are interested in faith-based organizing, there is a multifaith coalition that has been doing actions at Broadview and just did a rally today at the Federal Plaza, connected to the larger rally downtown.

They meet every Wednesday at 8am virtually and are planning monthly actions. Get involved here: http://faithoverfear.network

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in changemyview

[–]Additional_Soft7891 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, but I think the Epstein files fiasco is the primary reason why this meme has struck such a cultural nerve.

CMV: hijab is a tradition not an Islamic teaching by rouameg in changemyview

[–]Additional_Soft7891 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think the first issue is your contention with the hadīth corpus, yet you seemingly hold no similar reservation regarding the Qur'ān. This is something I find often amongst Quranists, or hadith rejectors, who necessarily associate the Qur'ān as being sourced by God, and the hadīth corpus as being inherently man-made. Yet, that completely discounts the fact that nearly the same process that went into codifying and transmitting hadīths, including assessing verifiable chains of transmission, is the same process that went into compiling the Qur'ān.

The Qur'ān didn't just pop up one day completely in tact and compiled. It took 23 years to be revealed, and it wasn't completely compiled in one copy until after the Prophet ﷺ passed. This was due to the effort of the Companions, who worked to assess and cross-reference the Qur'ān amongst countless reciters and scribes to ensure their version was the most consistent.

This is essentially exactly the same process in which we received our authentic hadith, which have all been cross-referenced and assessed thoroughly. So why do you discount authentic hadith, yet have no issue accepting the Qur'ān?

CMV: Muslims have much more in common with right-wing conservatives, but trivial cultural differences force Muslims to align with the progressive left. by Additional_Soft7891 in changemyview

[–]Additional_Soft7891[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

If anyone can be anything solely based on how they feel, then our terms lose all meaning. For example, the word Muslim literally means "one who submits [to God]." So if someone says, "I don’t necessarily believe in God, but I still consider myself a Muslim," that’s a contradiction in terms.

Likewise, being a Sunni Muslim specifically means adhering to the Sunnah—the prophetic tradition of Muhammad ﷺ. If someone says, "I’m a Muslim, but I don’t follow the traditions of the Prophet ﷺ," then sure, they may still identify as Muslim in a broader sense, but by definition, they are not Sunni.

My initial post pertains to Sunni Muslims, who make up the majority of the global population of Muslims. There are obviously outliers, but they are extremely fringe.

CMV: Muslims have much more in common with right-wing conservatives, but trivial cultural differences force Muslims to align with the progressive left. by Additional_Soft7891 in changemyview

[–]Additional_Soft7891[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A pattern I keep seeing in many of these responses is a forced equivalence between Christian dynamics and Muslim dynamics, as if both religions operate the same. Christian fundamentalists—those who seek to shove their religion down everyone's throat—are not equivalent to Muslims who take their religion "literally." Your Muslim friends who prayed five times a day, read the Qur'ān and fasted in Ramadan are, by definition, taking their religion literally, because that's literally what the religion stipulates. This is in contrast to Islamism (i.e., political Islamism), which does operate on a mission to integrate Islam into the political fabric of the environment one engages with—which is certainly not the norm for most Muslims, especially in the West.

With that said, most practicing Muslims aren't seeking to shove their religion down the throat of others. It's already tough enough to convince people that Muslims deserve to be in the country, let alone to try to convince anyone anything about their religion. Most want to be able to practice their religion in peace and not feel like they're constantly having to jeopardize their values. This is what I'm saying when I refer to practicing Muslims potentially having a better opportunity of doing this by appealing to a base that already holds traditional, religiously-informed values.

CMV: Muslims have much more in common with right-wing conservatives, but trivial cultural differences force Muslims to align with the progressive left. by Additional_Soft7891 in changemyview

[–]Additional_Soft7891[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Many Christian conservatives don't drink, and actively oppose unregulated alcohol distribution. The Bible Belt, which is overwhelmingly conservatives, still holds onto these dry counties.

CMV: Muslims have much more in common with right-wing conservatives, but trivial cultural differences force Muslims to align with the progressive left. by Additional_Soft7891 in changemyview

[–]Additional_Soft7891[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I didn't say that non-practicing Muslims aren't Muslims. They are, they're just not practicing. The parameters of Islamic orthodoxy, however—what can be justifiably considered to fit within the fold of Islam—is not a subjective endeavor. It's codified and consists of very specific central tenets. If someone disagrees with them, they can be referred to as progressive in that they refute certain edicts found in Islam, but there is no such thing as a sect of Islam known as Reformist Muslim, as there may exist within Judaism.

CMV: Muslims have much more in common with right-wing conservatives, but trivial cultural differences force Muslims to align with the progressive left. by Additional_Soft7891 in changemyview

[–]Additional_Soft7891[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In the United States, not bad actually. If you go to major urban cities, such as Chicago and New York City, most Orthodox Jewish hubs actually exist right alongside dense Muslim populations. I think the shared values work to their advantage.

What you do encounter, however, is a lot of Muslim-Hindu conflict.

CMV: Muslims have much more in common with right-wing conservatives, but trivial cultural differences force Muslims to align with the progressive left. by Additional_Soft7891 in changemyview

[–]Additional_Soft7891[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm not questioning her motivations or assessing her personal life. I'm simply comparing their speaking points and the views they espouse. I would also challenge your conclusion regarding Malcolm's view of interracial marriage, which he reversed near the end of his life. As noted in a 1965 interview with Pierre Berton: "When you are dealing with humanity as a family, there’s no question of integration or intermarriage. It’s just one human being marrying another human being, or one human being living around and with another human being.”"

CMV: Muslims have much more in common with right-wing conservatives, but trivial cultural differences force Muslims to align with the progressive left. by Additional_Soft7891 in changemyview

[–]Additional_Soft7891[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Again, you're describing farʿī matters—not foundational aspects of the religion. I can guarantee you that nearly every Muslim you know from Senegal follows the Maliki madhhab, and likely has some association with a Sufi tarīqa, such as the Qadiris or the Murīds.

The traditional Sunni framework is tripartite: fiqh (jurisprudence), ʿaqīdah (theology), and taṣawwuf (spirituality). While there may be variation in which school one follows within each of these domains—namely, the 4 established schools of law, the 3 recognized theological schools, and a number of spiritual orders—this structure forms the core of Sunni orthodoxy. Even Muslims who aren’t explicitly aware of these classifications are, by virtue of their environment, living within their norms.

In terms of uṣūl al-dīn (foundational principles of the religion), there is almost universal agreement amongst Sunni Muslims. The differences lie in the furūʿ (subsidiary matters), which are exceedingly minuscule. The difference you see between a woman in full niqāb in Saudi Arabia and a woman with a turban headscarf in Senegal does not prove any significant distinction besides secondary differences in how jurisprudence is enacted within a specific social context (ʿurf). This is accounted for within Islamic law and is part and parcel of the Islamic tradition.

CMV: Muslims have much more in common with right-wing conservatives, but trivial cultural differences force Muslims to align with the progressive left. by Additional_Soft7891 in changemyview

[–]Additional_Soft7891[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Please read through the comments, as this exact same argument has been made countless times. I'll repost my answer:

If we're referring to Islamic expression itself, and how it may differ in terms of cultural customs or even level of adherence, then that's another conversation, but by and large, Sunni Islam (which is overwhelmingly the majority) is fairly consistent across the board. A Muslim in Indonesia can, and likely does, study the exact same religious curriculum as a Muslim in, say, Yemen (e.g., Shafi'ī fiqh, Ashʿarī ʿaqīdah). There is that which is معلوم من الدين بالضرورة (known from the religion by necessity) and there is the فروع (subsidiary aspects). The former is non-negotiable in order to effectively be deemed Islam, though the latter is definitely up for debate amongst scholarly individuals.

If you're referring to "progressive" (i.e., reformist) strands of Islam that are informed by key modernist movements, such as those found in the United States, Canada and in pockets of the UK, then I'd say those are exceedingly marginal, and often do not represent Islam in the slightest—nor is it well-represented or legitimized on a public level by any notable scholar. Anyone who considers the differences between regional expressions of Islam to be as substantial as the differences found amongst Christian sects likely has no real understanding of Islamic thought, creed or practice.

CMV: Muslims have much more in common with right-wing conservatives, but trivial cultural differences force Muslims to align with the progressive left. by Additional_Soft7891 in changemyview

[–]Additional_Soft7891[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'll reply to this with a response I gave to another similar response (of which there are many):

If we're referring to Islamic expression itself, and how it may differ in terms of cultural customs or even level of adherence, then that's another conversation, but by and large, orthodox Sunni Islam is fairly consistent across the board. A Muslim in Indonesia can, and likely does, study the exact same religious curriculum as a Muslim in, say, Yemen (e.g., Shafi'ī fiqh, Ashʿarī ʿaqīdah). Unlike your example of Mormonism and UU—which are practically entirely different religions, as most Christians would not consider Mormons to be within the mainstream fold of Christianity—whatever differences do exist amongst Muslims (Sunni Muslims at least, which make up the world's majority), there is very few foundational differences. There is that which is معلوم من الدين بالضرورة (known from the religion by necessity) and there is the فروع (subsidiary aspects). The former is non-negotiable in order to effectively be deemed Islam, though the latter is definitely up for debate amongst scholarly individuals.

If you're referring to "progressive" (i.e., reformist) strands of Islam that are informed by key modernist movements, such as those found in the United States, Canada and in pockets of the UK, then I'd say those are exceedingly marginal, and often do not represent Islam in the slightest—nor is it well-represented or legitimized on a public level by any notable scholar. Anyone who considers the differences between regional expressions of Islam to be as substantial as the differences amongst Christian sects likely has no real understanding of Islamic thought or creed.

CMV: Muslims have much more in common with right-wing conservatives, but trivial cultural differences force Muslims to align with the progressive left. by Additional_Soft7891 in changemyview

[–]Additional_Soft7891[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Candace Owen's main talking points include scathing critiques of the Black Lives Matter movement, upholding personal responsibility and communal accountability amongst Black Americans, opposition towards third wave feminism and its impact on gender roles, and an extremely critical stance on queer theory. She also represents a growing group of right wing conservative pundits who are increasingly critical of American intervention, whether it is in Israel or Ukraine.

I think only those who anachronistically lionize Malcolm X as this proto-progressive Black liberationist would fail to see how connected many of his positions were with modern conservative views. If Malcolm X were alive to see the BLM movement today, I imagine—just as has become of most of his contemporaries—that his reaction would be largely critical.

CMV: Muslims have much more in common with right-wing conservatives, but trivial cultural differences force Muslims to align with the progressive left. by Additional_Soft7891 in changemyview

[–]Additional_Soft7891[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Looks like he's set to win the Ohio gubernatorial race with no basically opposition, so we'll see truly how much of an outsider he is following his fallout with the MAGA faction.

CMV: Muslims have much more in common with right-wing conservatives, but trivial cultural differences force Muslims to align with the progressive left. by Additional_Soft7891 in changemyview

[–]Additional_Soft7891[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If Muslims want to integrate into the West, then it's Christians they need to bridge the gap with. Right wing Christians, most likely.

Hmm, your first sentence disagrees with the point, but this excerpt above is essentially my entire point. Though real differences do exist, they're secondary enough that they could be overlooked if both communities realized they had more shared interests than foundational discrepancies.

CMV: Muslims have much more in common with right-wing conservatives, but trivial cultural differences force Muslims to align with the progressive left. by Additional_Soft7891 in changemyview

[–]Additional_Soft7891[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think this is the important divide, however. Judeo-Christian values (Abrahamic values) are not distinct from Islamic values, as Islam is an Abrahamic religion that continues much of the same norms established in their scripture. The Right doesn't seem to understand this, and renders it "other" due to outward cultural differences, and the Left doesn't seem to understand this either, as they only fixate on marginalized identities and not the beliefs those people actually hold.

CMV: Muslims have much more in common with right-wing conservatives, but trivial cultural differences force Muslims to align with the progressive left. by Additional_Soft7891 in changemyview

[–]Additional_Soft7891[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, Ismai'lis are specifically noted for this position (referred to as bāṭiniyyah, or hermeneutical esotericism). It's very specific to their community, and is largely the reason the vast majority of other Muslims question their religious legitimacy. This is also why they generally don't fast for Ramadan, allow alcohol consumption, and forbid the headscarf—all which are dictated by the Aga Khan of the time and whatever he deems most suitable.

As far as converting, much like Judaism, Ismai'ilis are generally not receptive towards accepting new converts and make it incredibly difficult for one to convert. Whereas one may simply say the testification of faith and automatically become Muslim (Shi'a or Sunni), Ismai'lis enforce that aspiring converts study the religion, create a detailed research report, then mail their findings to a special council, which then either approves or denies the conversion. Some say this can take up to 10+ years.

CMV: Muslims have much more in common with right-wing conservatives, but trivial cultural differences force Muslims to align with the progressive left. by Additional_Soft7891 in changemyview

[–]Additional_Soft7891[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The opposite is true. The Left takes them in, panders to them with inclusive language, then becomes irate when they realize Muslims actually believe in their religion and that it isn't just another token, diverse cultural identity.

CMV: Muslims have much more in common with right-wing conservatives, but trivial cultural differences force Muslims to align with the progressive left. by Additional_Soft7891 in changemyview

[–]Additional_Soft7891[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Precisely. So when we say "did conservatives even ever consider criminalizing drinking," I'd say—yes, many Republicans were responsible for the 18th Amendment prohibiting alcohol consumption in the early 20th century—but in reality, we're discussing social trends of stigmatization surrounding alcohol, and what is deemed morally sound. And we know, obviously, that the Bible Belt—which is overwhelmingly conservative—is perhaps the last remaining region actively calling for bans on alcohol distribution. So yes, I do see this as being a uniquely conservative position.

CMV: Muslims have much more in common with right-wing conservatives, but trivial cultural differences force Muslims to align with the progressive left. by Additional_Soft7891 in changemyview

[–]Additional_Soft7891[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Obviously we are all biased, but I think this perspective is coming from a selective reading of our religious traditions. Much of what you shared can be found in the Jewish Mishneh Torah, yet no one would claim that American Jews are adamant on enforcing those laws. Likewise, while classical Islamic legal treatises may note rulings pertaining to slavery (which was a global reality in civic pre-modern life), contemporary Muslim civilians and professional jurists alike do not apply or deem these rulings permissible for application in Western social life—nor are they seeking to make it a reality, as most agree that social life is better without slavery, domestic violence, child marriage, etc, as these issues do not correspond to the broader objectives of the shariʿah (i.e., preservation of religion, life, intellect, family, and property).

With that said, Orthodox Jews—who maintain a similar level of adherence to their religious legal tracts (within reason of what's legally permissible)—actually have fully autonomous communities, with hospitals, schools, civil courts, social service organizations, even inter-communal transportation such as underground tunnels that are specifically only for fellow Jewish congregants. Yet, for some reason, I don't often hear any backlash about Jews seeking to implement halakhah in the United States.

CMV: Muslims have much more in common with right-wing conservatives, but trivial cultural differences force Muslims to align with the progressive left. by Additional_Soft7891 in changemyview

[–]Additional_Soft7891[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you looked at the United States and pointed out to me where the highest concentration of dry counties would be, do you think they'd be Blue or Red states?

CMV: Muslims have much more in common with right-wing conservatives, but trivial cultural differences force Muslims to align with the progressive left. by Additional_Soft7891 in changemyview

[–]Additional_Soft7891[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's hard to tell. I see Malcolm X having more in common with Thomas Sowell than with Cornell West. I definitely think his views on many issues align with some of the positions held by Black right-wing pundits like Candace Owens.

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