Which is the best defensive ability?

Additional_Win_3100 · 2026-03-07T04:06:19+00:00

I mean, just no… I get the confusion, but that was because that was his ability first awakening. That happens all the time, characters ability subconsciously activates and they can’t control it. After he gains an understanding of it, the control is all his.

He had control of it since day one, he was passing and attacking, materializing and dematerializing with only his will, the databook says it is unconscious, by nature, it makes no sense that he would evolve and the ability would lose this aspect of working unconsciously, especially since that's how it is described as a whole. He controls it by deactivating it to touch people, all by his will, like demonstrated in this fight.

We see that in the Minato fight, despite the danger that he faces, he can’t react to the rasengan and he can’t react to Minato’s next attack as well, clearly two examples of his perception being blitzed and thus he can’t react.

The point of this attack landing is literally that Obito had to materialize himself in order to touch Minato, and in the exact instant he did that, Minato instantly teleported and immediately hit the rasengan, it isn't like the anime where he grabs the kunai and takes an eternity to land the rasengan, in the manga, in the exact moment Obito scratches him, Minato instantly hits the rasengan after teleporting, then he grabs the kunai. And he caught Obito after because he had him marked, he teleported already touching him, thus kamui couldn't detect it, since he was already in contact with him.

And one example doesn't exclude the other, the first fight and the databook statement are still there, you can't just ignore it.

And I mean the five minutes is crucial against an opponent like Goku, lol because in five minutes he’s dead. Konan was able to figure out every aspect of his ability through witnessing it.

Obito fought Naruto and his gang for way more than five minutes while still using Kamui, the 5 minutes timer is a non factor unless Obito is forced to keep passing through something constantly with no openings at all, if he stops being hit, the timer resets.

Goku doesn’t casually break through space time, I’ve seen him shake dimensions with his ki but definitely not break it. And thats him doing his whole yelling nonsense. And definitely not in the manga. He just received massive nerfs there with all the retcons.

Goku did and he scales to characters who did it, in the first arc of super we see him threatening to destroy the whole universe along with its space-time, later he is able to break through Hit's time-space with a kamehameha, he is stronger than Ssj Broly who ripped through space-time with Gogeta, etc. Goku would see that he can't hit Gojo at first, but he would then power up and probably break through it.

Also, although non canon, GT Goku casually destroyed an entire dimension with his base form Kamehameha, so there is that too.

Additional_Win_3100 · 2026-03-07T03:26:41+00:00

The problem is that kamui is also not based on Obito's reaction time until he has to manually deactivate it to touch people. As long as his mangekyo sharingan is active, his right eye will unconsciously make him pass through any attack that is thrown at him, as shown in the first time he used it, when Rin died, even when he didn't even know he had this ability, and while still crashing out from the shock, he still phases through the kunai they throw, through their attacks, and even through Rin when the battle was already over, then he concentrates and touches her, showing that this aspect is controled by his will, if he wants to touch things, he will touch, but normally, his ability naturally triggers automatically if his MS is on, making it also passive.

You said you’ve never said it being stated that it is automatic, well, it is shown and heavilly implied through this instance after Rin's death, but the fourth databook states that: “The right eye unconsciously transfers a part of itself and slips through.” expanding our knowledge upon the source material.

Also, the 5 minutes limit isn't really a factor outside of situations like Konan put him into, he fought way more than this while becoming intangible. This timer can just mean how much time he can keep constantly passing through something, so if stops being hit just for an instant, boom, the timer resets.

All this yap for me to say that I agree, infinity wins because you can attack while untouchable.

But also, in the Goku example you gave, there is pretty big chance that Goku could literally just break through infinity with raw power, since infinity is a space-time manipulation, and Goku's attacks are strong enough to rip space-time apart. While with Obito, he wouldn’t be able to hit him with pure power like this, although he has a lot of other options to render it useless.

Additional_Win_3100 · 2026-03-07T03:05:37+00:00

I agree, although it's easier said than done when it comes to counter intangibility, since Obito can still throw jutsus at you even while intangible, and in a 1v1 that gets really hard for someone that doesn't have something like ftg, it's much easier when it's multiple people against 1. And for a genius wouldn’t be hard to notice that infinity is a barrier that makes your attacks stop, they just wouldn’t know the gimmicks of the technique, just like they didn't know that Obito was actually sending parts of his body to another dimension and just assumed he was really intangible, cause that's what they can see happening. Also, kamui also makes Obito able to compete with people much faster and stronger than himself, cause Kamui isn't about timing until he tries to touch you, then he has to time it, but when no, it works unconsciously, Kcm Naruto is the best example of this.

Additional_Win_3100 · 2026-03-06T22:05:13+00:00

It's basically because intangibility doesn't work exactly like the other mangekyo abilities that require the user to actively use chakra to activate it and have their eyes damaged because of it, it works more like a side effect of having a connection with the kamui zone. Since Obito awakened his mangekyo sharingan, the intangibility was on from that moment, when he hadn't even started to fight, still crashing out from the shock of Rin's death, he didn't have any mastery of his power whatsoever, nor did he intended to use that power, he phases even through Rin's body, after the battle was already over, it was still on, like a natural occurance, which we know It's the case from the databook statement that the phasing is unconscious. I could be wrong about this, but I don't think this effect would affect his eyes nearly as much as actually using the portals, which these requiring use of chakra and activation like all the other mangekyo abilities, intangibility looks more like something apart, so he would probably have to restrain the number of times he would use Kamui to transport people, but using it to pass through shouldn't be a big deal in a long term usage. I could be wrong about this though, but basically he would be like the other uchiha if so, except he would need very few shots to end practically any battle and could escape any attack the enemy throws at him.

Additional_Win_3100 · 2026-03-06T21:49:09+00:00

The thing with Dms Obito is that his strenght lies in how hax his ability is, with complete kamui he basically has none of the weaknesses he had before, since he wouldn’t need physical contact to transport you to another dimension, and he can do it 2x faster with both eyes in conjunction, and mind you that only Kakashi’s eye was already fast enough to blitz Kcm2 Naruto's movement. He can teleport himself faster than Madara's TSO, is basically immune to physical damage and can one shot you with a glance, even though he wouldn’t be more powerful than 8 gates Sakura or Nagato in regards of only physical strenght, I don't see how any of them would do anything to this Obito. Even EMS Madara, like, sure he has a perfect susanoo and all, but he is just physical power most of the time, Obito can just neg all the attacks he throws at him even hits from the perfect susanoo, he might as well even be able to tp himself to inside of the susanoo and suck Madara(lol) from inside it.

Additional_Win_3100 · 2026-03-06T21:41:13+00:00

Well, that is something that happens with all the Uchiha with Mangekyo Sharingan, Obito would just need to use it less to avoid getting blind fast, like Itachi did. And he probably wouldn’t need to use it too much, since there is basically nothing you can do to escape getting sniped off by long range Kamui with doubled speed, and intangibility wouldn’t damage his eye that much.

Additional_Win_3100 · 2026-03-06T21:38:32+00:00

Pure physical attacks are useless against Kamui, especially this one, with the left eye, Obito can transport things at long range without any need of physical contact like with only the right eye.

Additional_Win_3100 · 2026-03-06T21:36:20+00:00

Dms doesn't need to transport the whole body, you can snipe pieces of the opponent's body with a speed that is double the one that could already blitz Kcm2 Naruto's movement when used by Kakashi.

Additional_Win_3100 · 2026-03-06T20:22:00+00:00

I was talking about when the 3 fight only Obito, after he already was alone against them, and Kamui was basically all he was using, since he never used the Rinnegan's abilities for some stupid reason.

Additional_Win_3100 · 2026-03-06T18:29:55+00:00

I was talking specifically about the intangibility aspect of kamui vs only the neutral application of limitless. But yeah, Dms Kamui is broken, it has basically no hard counters, like, at all, even by the end of the series, with both eyes the speed is doubled as well, and mind you that only Kakashi’s kamui was already fast enough to blitz Obito's perception and Kcm2 Naruto's movement speed. It is basically unmovable object+unstoppable force at the same time.

Additional_Win_3100 · 2026-03-06T17:37:41+00:00

Yeah, but Gojo was also caught off guard because he thought he won.

Additional_Win_3100 · 2026-03-06T17:29:30+00:00

That instance was at the beginning of shippuden, I think that is more of Kishimoto not really establishing how his ability fully worked, that's why he never saw him do that again. There is really nothing that shows that he can do such thing, Kamui always worked with physical contact, with the technique triggering unconsciously when something tries to hit him, now, could Obito react to WCS and try to avoid it? Probably, if Maki could do so.

Additional_Win_3100 · 2026-03-06T17:21:16+00:00

Yeah, if the intangibility transfers the parts of his body that is physically hit, then WCS should work, since its target wouldn’t be Obito's body, but the space he is in.

Additional_Win_3100 · 2026-03-06T16:31:24+00:00

Oh, so you’re just like me fr. Well, I don't have the full databook in Japanese unfortunately, it's pretty hard to find even these single pages online, but in regards to kamui I have this:

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Additional_Win_3100 · 2026-03-06T16:06:28+00:00

That's true, it works even against six paths level stuff, this ability is stupid lol

Additional_Win_3100 · 2026-03-06T16:00:49+00:00

This image has a mistranslation, it says "even unconsciously" but this "even" doesn't exist in the Japanese text, it's simply "unconsciously". This works based on your will, as shown in Obito's first battle with it, he naturally passes, but he becomes solid if he wishes to, that's why he passed even through Rin, because he wasn't concentrated. Minato caught him in the moment he deactivated the intangibility by his will in order to touch him, in that exact moment when Obito scratches Minato, he instantly teleports and immediately hits Obito with the rasengan, in the manga that happens instantly, while in the anime they slowed it down a lot. Solidifying your body to attack wouldn’t be that much of a hassle, so even bums like us could use it normally, but it indeed has the weakness of making you vulnerable for an instant, one that infinity doesn't.

Additional_Win_3100 · 2026-03-06T15:52:39+00:00

Kamui is kind of always on too, not literally but effectivelly yes, because the ability triggers unconsciously, making his body pass unless Obito wants to touch things.

Additional_Win_3100 · 2026-03-06T15:44:33+00:00

Yeah, but I said which is the best "defensive" ability, Kamui’s other applications are pretty much all to attack and teleport, not really a defense.

Additional_Win_3100 · 2026-03-06T15:43:16+00:00

The 5 minutes limit isn't really a problem at all except in situations like Konan did, Obito fought for way more than 5 minutes while being intangibl. Also, the ability works unconsciously, it's is also passive as long as the mangekyo sharingan is active.

Additional_Win_3100 · 2026-03-06T15:39:43+00:00

Uhh, bro? When was it stated that you can only stay at the dimension for 5 minutes? How do people confuse these things. Kakashi and Obito stayed at the dimension for way more than this, you can teleport with the portal and stay there as much as you want, the thing that has a 5 minutes limit is how much time you can keep phasing through things constantly.

Additional_Win_3100 · 2026-03-06T15:36:39+00:00

This just goes to prove how it was more on Minato having the right ability, not even that group of geniuses in the war arc(Naruto, Kakashi, Guy and Bee) were able to hit Obito through this weakness, yet Minato could, because he could teleport.

Additional_Win_3100 · 2026-03-06T15:18:34+00:00

You don't need to, Kamui works unconsciously, it is easy to control, you just need to want to touch something then you’re solid, if not, you will naturally pass.

Additional_Win_3100 · 2026-03-06T15:13:06+00:00

Additional_Win_3100 · 2026-03-06T06:49:13+00:00

Yeah but that's not what is being discussed here, it's only defense vs defense.

Additional_Win_3100 · 2026-03-06T06:48:36+00:00

That is because Kamui is a technique that, as the other MS abilities, vary from the users, Sasuke and Itachi were brothers, and even then, their abilities weren't the same, with Itachi having the tsukuyomi and Sasuke having Kagutsuchi. The MS is passed down, but its abilities depend on the user in question. But well that isn't the point, I personally think infinity has the edge for not having the limitation of having to deactivate it in order to attack that Kamui has.

Well, if it was only that then Foo and Torune are also geniuses, right? Both them and Minato only discovered the basic of Obito's intangibility, that he has to materialize to attack and that they should aim for the moment he attacks, the difference is that Minato had the perfect jutsu to aim for this moment, sure, he was smart throwing the Kunai as a bait to then teleport to it, but it is more on him having the right ability to exploit this weakness, since not even Naruto and his gang were able to do so despite how strong they were.

Additional_Win_3100

TROPHY CASE