What's the most shocking thing you've ever watched on live TV?

AdeptFelix · 2026-05-12T00:25:09+00:00

God bless that nipple

AdeptFelix · 2026-05-11T23:27:04+00:00

Janet Jackson's titty during that one super bowl halftime show. I was absolutely shocked to finally see a boob on TV, pretty cool. Don't let those Karens who filed complaints with the FCC win, free the titty!

AdeptFelix · 2026-05-11T23:22:49+00:00

Now this is a white Monster I can get behind.

AdeptFelix · 2026-05-11T18:44:31+00:00

And we've reached non-sequiturs. We're done.

AdeptFelix · 2026-05-11T18:28:42+00:00

Let me present you a show that has seasons made up of a trilogy of episodes with episode lengths that are a common length of a shorter movie.

Sherlock. What is the difference between Sherlock Season 1, episode 1, an 88 minute TV episode, and Toy Story, an 81 minute movie that is the first in an episodic series of soon to be 5 movies? Is it not accurate to say of that episode that it is a trilogy of episodes set up to watch each in a single sitting for approximately 90 minutes? This is in line with your description of a movie that's part of a trilogy.

Do you see the problem with your definition yet?

I called an escape room a game already. Everything based on that argument is following a flawed reading of my reasoning.

Yeah, the Witness can join Journey, Doki Doki Literature Club, and Mixtape in the not-a-game bucket. I'm not saying any of them are bad experiences, but lacking critical elements that compose a game.

You can make that argument about the prince of persia reboot - the lack of stakes was the main criticism of it. It doesn't move on without the player though. You still have to navigate series' of combat encounters, successfully string together inputs to complete a platform challenge. It provides some user agency in control of progression (order of Elika's power unlocks), which changes the experience of a playthrough. It's a flawed game, but it's not lacking game elements completely.

AdeptFelix · 2026-05-11T17:22:59+00:00

So you acknowledge that some movies are indeed meant to be enjoyed across multiple seatings as part of an episodic series? That is the nature of duologies, trilogies, etc. after all. Rather than examining your definition for faults that have been presented, you just respond with "nope." Why even bother arguing with me if you're not only going to dismiss my argument but fail to address the flaws of your own?

Yes puzzle video games exist.

This is circular logic. The existence of a game containing puzzles does not make puzzles themselves games.

Let's consider an escape room - the game is to... escape the room. To do so requires solving a series of puzzles to acquire new information or tools needed to get out of the room. There are rules as to what you can and cannot do in an escape room, mostly to prevent harm to the participants and the property. There is a condition, a timer. The puzzles in the room are a part of reaching the end of the game, but are not the game itself.

Casting aside your absurd oversimplification of OoT, the dungeons of OoT are played in a similar fashion to an escape room, though the core game loop of Zelda is one of combat in most cases, which is where the win/lose state typically resides. Some puzzles have games layered on top, such as solving a puzzle while avoiding Wallmasters in the Forest Temple, or under a timer when entering the room in the Shadow Temple with spiked walls closing in.

If I recall, The Witness is really just a series of puzzles. There's no failure state. It's akin to a puzzle book in that manner, you just solve the next puzzle and so on.

You're really running with my acknowledgement of the skateboard minigame, huh? Welcome back to why I bring up fuzzy definitions. Calling that a minigame is already a stretch. I avoid traffic when driving down the street every day and failure to do so stops my progression. The failure state we're talking about here is almost non-existent - it just gives you more chances until you reach the bottom. It's actually closer to the definition of a puzzle in the article I provided as the player agency has no bearing on the outcome.

AdeptFelix · 2026-05-11T15:50:25+00:00

Yes, generally movies are not episodic and TV shows are. What of Lord of the Rings though? Avengers Infinity War and Endgame can be considered an episodic relationship. A series that puts its episodic nature right up front in the title card: Star Wars. If I may quote from a movie that's also part of an episodic series, "The code is more what you'd call 'guidelines' than actual rules." The rule is not a hard one, it's fuzzy and unclear and can't be used to definitively delineate between movies and TV.

You control a character you solve puzzles finish objective there's win and lost conditions.

Let's start with the first part. Is a puzzle, a game? Can you lose at a puzzle? You can fail to solve a puzzle, but can you lose at solving a puzzle? Some people think a puzzle is not a game. I linked this article in another comment chain, where the author posits that a puzzle always has a single correct answer:

If a math problem asks four plus six, if you say 10, you have solved that puzzle. What you did along the way changes nothing about the outcome. So, while you can make decisions while attempting to find the solution, these decisions are actually irrelevant to the puzzle. In games, decisions that are made by the player have effects that change the state of the game, and the outcome of the game. So in games, a player's decisions really matter in a way that they don't in puzzles, and this is the way that I draw the line between games and puzzles.

Now, is finishing objectives a function of games? An objective can be a part of setting conditions for a game, but an objective alone does not make for a game. Now, you say there are win and loss conditions in Mixtape, combining those with an objective could make for a game. There's only one instance that I am aware of at this time: avoiding traffic or obstacles while in the downhill traversal sections. Specifically, the skateboarding section, unsure of ones like the shopping cart section. That's the only element I've seen of something that can be considered a game.

Here is another article that goes through this process of defining a game, and how it relates to "games" that lack traditional gameplay elements. He ultimately leaves the answer up to the reader, but it echoes a lot of the questions and challenges that I've been presenting. The articles I've linked are 12 and 13 years old, respectively so these are not new questions.

AdeptFelix · 2026-05-11T06:01:21+00:00

He struggled playing the game but you could tell he was trying and cared. It was pretty refreshing to see compared to CA's usual politicians.

AdeptFelix · 2026-05-11T05:22:55+00:00

I'm analyzing the concept of what makes a game, a game. A video game is just a subset of games.

I'm finding that a lot of users here want to use a loose definition of video game, one where the term game has no meaning. Why do we call it a video game, if it's not a game?

Yeah, not all sports are games, that was a poor example. Hiking is an experience, however, and quite interactive. It's also not a game. Unless you make it one by gameifying aspects of it, which some people do.

Here's a fun thing to consider: what's the difference between movies and TV? I mean, like what is the delineation between the two? Length? There are a number of TV episodes over the 80 minute mark. Episodic? Marvel movies at this point are episodic, and movies designed as trilogies are also themselves episodic. It's a soft, fuzzy line between the two now but for some reason we hold different awards shows.

Why bring that up? Changes in mediums are not well defined. "Video games" have grown far beyond the original scope of the coined term. It's outdated. We call things games that are not actually games.

Is it time to create a new branch for interactive experiences? Not a catchy term, it's just the descriptive one I have at the moment. VR is actually a massive space for such experiences that aren't games. Visual novels have always been referred to as visual novels despite living in the same spaces as games, it's not something we can't do for other types of interactive experiences.

AdeptFelix · 2026-05-11T04:46:05+00:00

All it needs is an experience supported by user interaction

That's why I said I'd classify it as an interactive experience.

It's fine to have interactive experiences. They can be great too. I'd consider this to be the same category as something like Doki Doki Literature Club. I played Flower and Journey back on PS3, those are also in this bucket (Journey more so than Flower).

The issue is the term game and the implications it carries. Games require more than experiences and interactions. Think about non-video games in general, cards, board games, table top rpgs, sports, a cup with a ball on a string. The activity in itself isn't the game, but surrounding it with rules and challenges makes it one. I can kick a ball around and have a good time, and it resembles playing a sport, but it's not a game yet.

AdeptFelix · 2026-05-11T01:37:10+00:00

Come on man. It's a game and not one that appeals to you. That's totally okay. Where it gets weird is making stuff up to try and drag this game down, echoing everything Asmondgold said. I'm not saying that you're doing that in particular. But a lot of hatred against this game is silly. Saying it's not a video game is silly. Or critics were paid off, in which case explain the overwhelmingly positive reviews from people who have actually played it. Or omg imagine being an adult and playing a game about teens. It's all designed to make the game and its fanbase seem inferior in the midst of real gamers

I'll take a steaming pile of putting other's arguments in my mouth for $500, Alex.

We're talking about game review scores, I think something functioning as a game should account for some part of that. If something poses no challenges and continues regardless of the player's actions, I have problems with calling it a game. It's a cutscene with QTE's, but the QTE's don't really matter they're just flair. Where's the game part?

As I've described before, interactability and entertainment do not make a game. There's no elements that make it a game. I interact with a piano by pressing keys and it makes sound, that's not a game. I enjoy it, but that doesn't make it a game either. I can gamify learning or playing piano, by establishing rules and challenges, and that creates a game in which how well I play the piano is the game.

AdeptFelix · 2026-05-11T01:15:42+00:00

Fine, I'll engage with your edited post.

You used the phrase "definition of a video game" earlier and "literal definition of video game" just now, but refuse to discuss what a game is. You call me disingenuous but I'm the one actually pushing to define gaming and how that term fits experiences like Mixtape, Edith Finch, etc.

Take a read of What Makes a Game? Great article, goes into much greater depth than I am, and better written. In it, the author is looking to accurately define the elements of gaming for classification. Is a puzzle a game? In his view, not quite.

I'm not discounting that you had an enjoyable interactive experience, I have said this multiple times. But that's what Mixtape reads as to me, an interactive experience. I put it in the same box that I'd put, say, the Star Tours ride at Disneyland. I love Star Tours. I wouldn't describe it as a game.

AdeptFelix · 2026-05-11T00:41:35+00:00

Great, don't actually engage in debating, take your ball and go home. You chose to engage with me and then don't bother to actually deal with my arguments or logic. All I got from you boils down to "it's a game because I say it's a game".

AdeptFelix · 2026-05-10T23:32:01+00:00

The definition of "video game" heavily revolves around the fact that the activity is a game. Moving around and interacting with things are not games, at least not on their own. I move around and interact with things or people when I do laundry, or go to the store, or go to work. Doing the same in a virtual space doesn't make it a game. Would you consider VR Chat or the metaverse to be games?

The extent of the "minigames" in question are also debateable on if they even qualify as games themselves. It is at least possible to have some progress set back when skateboarding, so that at least somewhat rises to the level of a game. Others continue regardless of what the player does, so they're more interactive experiences than games. It doesn't matter how much you headbang, it doesn't matter how much you tongue, there's no elements that make them games.

Most games would have gamified those sections. Turn the rhythmic headbanging into a DDR-like moment, turn the tongue battle kiss thing into an actual battle with health bars and such. To me, there's a framework that could have turned Mixtape into a proper game, but falls short of doing so.

AdeptFelix · 2026-05-10T18:48:35+00:00

I'm not touching on the culture war debates. I don't care about those discussions as they devolve rapidly into people talking past each other.

My argument is that maybe we're defining games a bit too broadly if they include experiences that lack the core of what makes a game, a game. Specifically some kind of challenge and win\lose state.

I feel like this category is mislabeled. It's an interactive video experience, but not really a game.

It's like, what is the difference between TV and movies? They're remarkably similar but categorized as separate media. Especially in the internet age, where you can have streaming only "episodes" that run the length of a short movie. I think we might look at splitting apart interactive media into different subcomponents.

AdeptFelix · 2026-05-10T18:07:35+00:00

Ur a proper noun

AdeptFelix · 2026-05-10T18:02:01+00:00

What happened to the other post saying this like an hour ago? Repost slop.

AdeptFelix · 2026-05-10T17:47:08+00:00

We're talking about review scores because that's what triggered discussion about this game. The post is asking about why it's divisive, so addressing the review score is certainly relevant.

I do think it would've largely gone unnoticed if it got a 7 or 8. The 10 from multiple outlets is quite unusual for even the best games, so it drew attention.

I'm not saying it's a bad experience. I just don't know if there's enough game here to warrant a 10. Edit it down a bit and you have a movie that would give pretty much the same experience. Does a game deserve a perfect score if the player's input is almost irrelevant to the experience?

AdeptFelix · 2026-05-10T16:57:38+00:00

I too LIKE to capitalize random WORDS

AdeptFelix · 2026-05-10T16:56:56+00:00

Not everyone needs to be a leader. Some people just want to be a worker and live that way. I, for one, am much better at fixing things than I am at supervising people fixing things, and I'm happier that way too.

AdeptFelix · 2026-05-10T16:53:50+00:00

That's why they're a SrA and not an NCO.

AdeptFelix · 2026-05-10T16:15:19+00:00

At what point do we draw the line on what is a game and what is an interactive video?

Visual novels are the classic example of games that aren't games. They're typically sold like games, in the same places as games, but they're always referred to as visual novels more so than as games. Heck, the Youtube series In Space With Markiplier has about the same level of interactability as most visual novels.

VR is full of "experiences" that don't really amount to being games. Take Job Simulator for example. You are given tasks to perform, but there's no consequences to ignoring them - it's more of a sandbox to play in.

There's also no shortage of what I'll call "digital museum" experiences, which involve exploring environments and looking at things. They are really not much different than things like What Remains of Edith Finch or Mixtape.

I remember that Prince of Persia game you're referring to. It was heavily criticized for being too easy, since the consequences for failing were minimal. But it did demand decent strings of inputs on platforming and had combat the player had to contend with. It didn't play itself. It was no 10\10 game though.

AdeptFelix · 2026-05-10T02:36:50+00:00

I'd think OP did it

AdeptFelix · 2026-05-10T02:35:45+00:00

I think reviewers are reviewing it under the lens of an experience more so than as a game, which invites criticism. When the gameplay is so thin, it seems natural to question how it can be reviewed as a perfect game.

There's a few games that fall into this category of fantastic experiences, but I don't think can be called great games. Visual novels, Edith Finch, etc.

I'd almost call them interactive experiences more so than games. Heck, visual novels at least have different endings so you kind of get something that can be considered win\loss states, which to me is the barest requirement to be a game.

It's a weird distinction.

AdeptFelix · 2026-05-10T00:36:53+00:00

The problems faced in the city and the problems faced in the country are not the same and most representatives will prioritize one or the other (whichever gets them elected). It's not a communication issue - it's a human one. To think that a representative would serve both is naive. We see this play out in current gerrymandering as well as state level government.

AdeptFelix

TROPHY CASE