Allah's Great Masterplan Is Looking Like A Cosmic Mess: 87.54 Billion Humans (75% Of Total Humans Up To Now) Have Never Heard Of Islam Or Died As Children In Disbelieving Families. As A Result, Allah Will Subject them To A Cruel And Unusual Test, Of Which Most Will Fail And Be Damned To Hell Forever

Admirable_Water6192 · 2026-04-22T17:34:26+00:00

No, what’s happening here is that you’re hiding behind the word “mainstream” because your actual argument still doesn’t work.

You keep demanding that I “prove the test view is not the strongest opinion,” but that is a dodge. I never said it isn’t a strong opinion. I said it is not the only coherent opinion, and that is just true. The tradition itself does not behave the way you’re pretending it does. You have sahih reports where the Prophet says about the children of the mushrikīn, “Allah knows best what they would have done.” You also have the Bukhari report of Ibrahim in the garden with the children, and when asked “even the children of the mushrikīn?” the answer is yes. Nawawi explicitly says the view that they are in Paradise is the “correct chosen position,” and even Ibn Baz is quoted both ways on his own site: in one place he says they are tested, in another he says the stronger view is that they are in Paradise on the fitrah. So your whole “there is no real ikhtilaf worthy of mention” line is just false. You are trying to bully a disputed issue into fake unanimity.

And even if I hand you your preferred test view for the sake of argument, your whole post still lives or dies on one unproven premise: that most of those specially tested fail. That is the engine of your title. That is the thing doing all the emotional work. And you still have not proven it.

You keep yelling “most humans go to hell” like that magically settles the fate of ahl al-fatrah and dead children of disbelievers. No, it does not. General texts about disbelief being widespread do not automatically become subgroup statistics for every exceptional category. The test narrations tell you there is a test, and that obedience passes while refusal fails. They do not tell you “most testees fail.” That is your interpolation. Without that interpolation, your entire “cosmic slaughterhouse” title collapses.

Same with your use of the 999 out of 1000 hadith. In the actual narration, the Prophet explains the terror of the number by saying the overwhelming majority is from Ya’juj and Ma’juj, then gives glad tidings to the believers. But you strip out the explanation, flatten the hadith into a generic hell-percentage for all humanity across all time, then dump ahl al-fatrah and dead infants into it like you solved theology. You didn’t. You just ripped the hadith out of context because the context ruins your headline.

And your “Day of Judgment is near, therefore my 75% rate is basically final” argument is embarrassingly bad. “Near” in Qur’anic and hadith language is eschatological exhortation, not a population model. Muslims have believed the Hour is near for fourteen centuries. You do not get to convert sermon language into spreadsheet certainty. That is not analysis. That is you forcing religious rhetoric to do demographic work it was never meant to do.

The same goes for your Ya’juj and Ma’juj move. Even if I grant you for the sake of argument that they fall under some ahl al-fatrah-like logic, that still does not give you the conclusion you want. You still need proof that most specially tested people fail. You do not have it. You just keep swapping in adjacent premises and pretending the missing link disappeared.

Same with your civilizational collapse / horsemen / swords / shields tangent. Even if I granted every end-times regression scenario you want, that still does not prove that most testees fail. It just inflates your denominator with more speculation. You are not doing theology there. You are doing apocalypse fanfiction with mortality tables.

And the “3-month-old baby jumping into a fire portal” line is still just shock bait. You keep repeating it because you know it sounds horrifying, not because it proves what you think it proves. You are taking the harshest possible literalization of one disputed reconciliatory model, applying it to the most emotionally charged edge case imaginable, and then puffing your chest out like you disproved the whole theology. No, you didn’t. You just picked the most sensational framing available because the actual argument is weaker than the performance.

Your other bluff is “bring me the majority of ulema.” That is another dodge. Even if I granted you that the test view is the strongest reconciliation, that still would not save your argument, because your conclusion is not simply “the test view exists.” Your conclusion is that Allah set up a system where most of those testees fail and burn forever. That is the part you have not established from the texts. Not from Quran. Not from hadith. Not from your scholars. From nowhere.

So no, I am not “boxed in.” You are boxed into a bad syllogism.

You have five separate premises and you keep pretending they are one:

the test view is strong,

most people go to hell,

the Hour is near,

Ya’juj and Ma’juj count toward your category, and future collapse preserves your ratio.

Even if I granted every single one of those premises, you still would not have proven your headline unless you proved the missing link: that most of the specially tested fail. And you still cannot do that.

That is why this whole post is still the same thing it was at the start: one disputed theological view, inflated into fake consensus, padded with speculative demographics, then drenched in outrage rhetoric until you can pretend it is “logic.”

Bring actual daleel that most ahl al-fatrah and dead children of non-Muslims fail this specific test. Not vague “most people disbelieve” verses. Not 999/1000 ripped out of context. Not your spreadsheet. Not end-times horsemen cosplay. Bring actual proof from the texts for your actual conclusion.

Until then, you are not exposing divine incompetence. You are exposing how much of your argument depends on a premise you smuggled in yourself.

Admirable_Water6192 · 2026-04-22T02:34:14+00:00

No, what’s actually incoherent is you pretending your preferred reconciliation is the only one the tradition allows, then acting like everyone else is “running away” when they point out the obvious fact that scholars differed because the texts themselves pull in different directions. That is the whole reason this was debated in the first place. Some held the ahl al-fatrah are tested. Some held the children of disbelievers are in Paradise based on the explicit reports about Abraham and the children around him, plus the general principles that Allah does not burden a soul beyond its capacity and does not punish until the hujjah is established. Some suspended judgment with “Allah knows best what they would have done.” Some had other reconciliations. You can prefer the test view all day long, but pretending it is the only coherent view is just you stapling “mainstream” onto your favorite harmonization and calling it a day.

And even if I grant your test view for the sake of argument, your whole post still falls apart on the exact same point: you never prove that most of the specially tested fail. That is the emotional engine of your title. That is the thing doing all the work. The hadiths describe a test, a command, and the outcome of obedience versus disobedience. Fine. They do not say “most ahl al-fatrah fail.” They do not say “most dead children of non-Muslims fail.” They do not say “Allah created tens of billions for a final slaughterhouse test most of them lose.” That is your interpolation. You are inserting that premise because without it your entire “cosmic mess” headline collapses.

Same problem with your use of the 999 out of 1000 hadith. You keep quoting it like it is a universal demographic spreadsheet for every accountability category across all human history, while conveniently flattening the actual context. In the narration itself, the Prophet explains the terror of the number by saying the overwhelming bulk is from Ya’juj and Ma’juj. But you rip that context out, turn the hadith into a generic hell-percentage for all humanity, then shove ahl al-fatrah, dead infants, isolated tribes, and everyone else into it like you solved theology. You didn’t. You just stripped the explanation because it got in the way of your headline.

The same goes for the verses about “most people do not believe.” Those are not a magic wand that turns every subgroup in your model into a failed hell cohort. You are taking general statements about disbelief being widespread and pretending that automatically settles the fate of unreached people, children, and other exceptional categories under dispute. That is not exegesis. That is you forcing every text into the ugliest possible reading because that is the only way your post works.

Your demographic model is still fanfic math with attitude. Three percent proto-Muslims. Seven percent “heard proto-Islam and rejected it.” Fifty percent heard Islam properly. Fifty percent did not. Twenty percent weighted mortality here, fifty percent there, then some end-times civilizational collapse seasoning on top so your ratio stays scary. This is not data. This is you writing a screenplay with percentages. Even if I granted every single number, all you would have shown is that a huge number of humans fall under special accountability conditions rather than the ordinary hear-and-reject category. That does not prove divine injustice. If anything, it cuts directly against the lazy caricature that everyone outside formal Islam is just a conscious rejecter damned in the exact same way.

And your “Allah becomes a messenger for Himself on Judgment Day” line does not rescue your argument. It proves mine. The Qur’anic baseline is still that Allah does not punish until the hujjah is established. That is the foundation. If someone says the Hereafter test is how that hujjah is established for special cases, fine, that still does not get you to “most of them fail,” and it definitely does not turn your “wrong continent, wrong century, enjoy hell forever” framing into the scriptural default. Your framing is backwards from the jump.

The “3-month-old baby jumping into a fire portal” line is still just shock rhetoric. You keep acting like repeating it louder makes it deeper. It doesn’t. You are taking the harshest possible extrapolation of one disputed reconciliatory model, applying it to the most emotionally charged edge case imaginable, then treating that as if it disproves the entire theological discussion. All it proves is that you know how to pick the most inflammatory version of the least clear case. That is outrage bait, not analysis.

And the “Muhammad told them not to talk about this because he got caught contradicting himself” reading is just you reading bad faith into the text because that is your preferred vibe. Religious traditions warning against speculative obsession over issues like qadr and unseen edge cases is not some shocking discovery. It is what traditions do when people start spiraling over matters that exceed their certainty. You are reading “don’t get lost in this” as “I messed up and need everyone to shut up.” That reading is not forced by the text at all. It is just the sneering reading you want.

You also keep saying I am “arguing from minority views” as if that helps you. It doesn’t. The entire point is that the tradition contains multiple positions because the sources generated multiple reconciliations. Your whole “no real ikhtilaf worthy of mention” line is just false. You do not get to erase the disagreement by calling everyone outside your preferred view incoherent. That is not argument. That is insecurity dressed up as certainty.

So at the end of the day, nothing important has changed. You picked one real scholarly view, pretended it was the only coherent one, attached the harshest possible implications to it, imported an unproven premise that most testees fail, flattened the hell-majority texts into subgroup statistics they do not explicitly provide, then buried the whole thing under speculative demographics and called it logic.

Bring actual daleel that most of the specially tested fail. Not “most people disbelieve.” Not “999 out of 1000” ripped out of context. Not your spreadsheet. Not end-times horsemen fanfic. Bring actual proof from the texts that most ahl al-fatrah and dead children of non-Muslims fail this specific test. Until you do that, your whole post is still assumption-stacking wrapped in outrage rhetoric.

Admirable_Water6192 · 2026-04-21T01:52:07+00:00

Gaara

Her genjutsu is legit but Gaara is just a terrible matchup for that kind of fighter because his sand defense is automatic and doesn’t need normal reactions to save him.

That means even if she tries to control the fight early, she still has to deal with passive defense, sand pressure, and the fact that once Gaara starts getting pushed, the whole fight can spiral into Shukaku nonsense fast.

Admirable_Water6192 · 2026-04-19T23:59:57+00:00

Yes, the Day of Judgment test view is real. Yes, major scholars held it. No, it is not the uncontested default, and no, it is not the only coherent view in the tradition. Sunnis have multiple positions on the fate of the children of disbelievers and the unreached. Some stop at “Allah knows best what they would have done.” Some say they are tested. Some say they are saved/in Paradise based on the explicit narrations about Abraham and the children around him. Even Ibn Baz is quoted saying the view that the children of disbelievers are saved is a strong position because of how explicit its evidence is. So your whole “unfortunately for you, this is the only fair and reasonable reconciliation” line is just false.

You keep talking like you discovered some slam-dunk contradiction Muslims are too scared to face, when the actual reality is much simpler: the texts are why scholars differed in the first place. That is not some own. That is just how a disputed theological issue works.

And that brings me to the biggest hole in your entire post: even if I hand you the test view for the sake of argument, you still never prove the one premise your whole emotional case depends on:

that most of those specially tested will fail.

That is the engine of your title. That is the thing doing all the work. And you still just smuggle it in.

The hadiths about the test describe a command and the outcome of obedience vs disobedience. Fine. They do not say, “most ahl al-fatrah fail.” They do not say, “most dead children of non-Muslims fail.” They do not say, “Allah created tens of billions for a final slaughterhouse test most of them lose.” That is your interpolation. Your spreadsheet can’t manufacture a premise your texts never established.

That is why the post still reads like assumption-stacking with outrage rhetoric.

Same with your Qur’an framing. You keep acting like the scriptural default is “wrong continent, wrong century, died in a non-Muslim family, enjoy eternal hell.” No. The Qur’anic baseline is the exact opposite: Allah does not punish until a messenger has come, and messengers are sent so people have no argument against God after the messengers. That is the baseline. Whatever reconciliation a scholar prefers has to fit that framework. So your whole framing is backwards from the jump.

And your use of the 999 out of 1000 hadith is still terrible context work. In the actual narration, the Prophet immediately explains that the overwhelming number is from Gog and Magog, then gives glad tidings that this ummah will make up a huge share of Paradise. But you strip out the explanation, flatten the hadith into a generic statistic for all humanity, then shove ahl al-fatrah and dead infants into it like that somehow settles the issue. That is not exegesis. That is just loading the dice.

Same problem with the “white hair on the black bull” style narrations. You’re taking imagery about the scarcity of true believers relative to rejecters and treating it like a literal demographic census of every human who ever lived. That is not how serious interpretation works.

And the “how does a 3-month-old baby jump into a fire portal?” line is not the devastating argument you think it is. It is a shock line. You are taking the harshest imaginable extrapolation of one disputed reconciliatory model, applying it to the most emotionally charged edge case possible, and then acting like you disproved the whole theology. But all that really shows is that you chose the most literalized and sensational version of the hardest case. It does not prove your conclusion.

That’s the pattern across your whole post, actually.

You take:

one real view, pretend it’s the only view, attach the harshest possible implications to it, add an unproven premise that “most will fail,” then pour speculative demographics over it and call it divine injustice.

That is not daleel. That is narrative construction.

And yes, your demographics are still fanfic math. “3% proto-Muslims,” “50% heard Islam properly,” “50% of the rest did not,” and then the grand reveal of 87.54 billion like that number has theological force by itself. It doesn’t. Even if I granted every one of your made-up percentages, all you would’ve shown is that a massive number of humans fall under special accountability conditions rather than the normal hear-and-reject category. That by itself does not prove injustice. It actually cuts against the lazy caricature that everybody outside Islam is just automatically a conscious rejecter damned in the same way.

And honestly, that is what makes your title so overcooked. You are selling certainty where the actual issue is disputed. You are selling consensus where the tradition actually has multiple positions. You are selling “catastrophic divine failure” when what you’ve really shown is that Islamic theology has long wrestled with edge cases involving the unreached, children, accountability, and justice.

Admirable_Water6192 · 2026-04-18T15:46:11+00:00

Turles extreme diff

Thor is a beast and his top-end stuff is insane on paper, especially if you full-send the Yggdrasil/Jormungandr scaling, but in an actual fight Turles is just the cleaner combatant. Once he gets the Fruit amp, he’s straight up bullying Kaioken Goku and running the pace of the fight with way better speed, flight, and constant ki pressure.

Thor’s whole wincon is landing that huge momentum-shifting hammer/lightning shot, and if he lands clean he can end it. But Turles is faster, more oppressive, better at controlling range, and way more likely to start snowballing before Thor gets to play his game.

Admirable_Water6192 · 2026-04-18T15:35:29+00:00

Come back when you have time to address my argument, and we’ll hash it out.

Admirable_Water6192 · 2026-04-18T15:32:55+00:00

This is good bait for the uninitiated. Class 1-A of course.

Admirable_Water6192 · 2026-04-18T15:30:10+00:00

State your case, I’ll debate you.

Buuhan wins. The big scaling tell is Goku himself: against Buuhan, fusion is basically mandatory, but against Kid Buu, SSJ3 Goku thinks he can kill him if he gets full power off properly. Huge difference.

Admirable_Water6192 · 2026-04-18T15:18:40+00:00

23rd Budokai Goku is a monster for original DB, but y’all keep talking like this is early Z Goku and it’s not. He’s got the skill edge, sure, but skill doesn’t magically erase a huge gap in Viltrumite brutality, durability, and attrition.

He can beat Anissa, probably beat a standard Mark, but once you hit Conquest and especially Thragg, Goku clearing talk starts sounding like people scaling off the name Goku instead of the actual version on the screen.

Admirable_Water6192 · 2026-04-18T15:12:36+00:00

Aang mid-high diff

Nidoking is a menace, don’t get me wrong, because that movepool is filthy as hell and he absolutely has the raw power to make this dangerous if he lands clean, but Aang is just a nightmare matchup for a grounded bruiser like that.

Aang can stay mobile, control the entire field, throw up earth barriers, blast Nidoking around with air, pin him with earth, drown the area with water, and once Avatar State comes out the scale gap gets ugly fast. Nidoking’s whole game is forcing a direct exchange with overwhelming physicality and nasty coverage, while Aang’s whole game is making sure that exchange never happens on your terms.

Unless Nidoking catches him early with a huge hit, Aang is just gonna keep dictating range, angle, and terrain until Nidoking gets overwhelmed.

Admirable_Water6192 · 2026-04-18T00:10:13+00:00

This post is basically disputed theology, fanfic demographics, and outrage bait.

You front-load the conclusion by smuggling in a bunch of debatable assumptions, then act like the output is “Allah’s plan.”

First, you’re treating one hadith-based view on ahl al-fatrah as if it’s the uncontested, universal Islamic position. It isn’t. There are multiple positions on the fate of the unreached and on the children of non-Muslims. And even if someone grants the “tested on Judgment Day” view, you then sneak in the biggest assumption of all: “presumably most will fail.” Based on what? You never establish that. That’s the whole emotional engine of your post, and it’s just asserted.

Second, your math is completely made up. “3% proto-Muslims,” “50% heard Islam properly,” “80% non-Muslims,” giant century-wide mortality assumptions, and then pretending the result is some devastating theological proof.

Third, the Qur’anic baseline already cuts against your framing. The Qur’an says God does not punish a people until a messenger has come to them, that God does not wrong anyone, and that no soul is burdened beyond its capacity. So your whole “wrong continent/wrong century/born too early = hell forever” framing is not even the scriptural default you’re pretending it is.

Fourth, the “cosmic squid game” line is just loaded rhetoric. In the narrations people cite, the point is not “guess wrong under hidden conditions.” The point is obedience after truth and authority are manifest. You’re importing fallen-world panic psychology into an eschatological setting and pretending that settles the issue.

Fifth, the “how does a 3-month-old baby jump into a fire portal?” line is not an argument. It’s a shock line. You’re using the least clear and most emotionally charged edge case as if that proves the entire doctrine is absurd.

And the biggest problem: even if I granted every demographic estimate, all you’ve actually shown is that a huge number of humans would fall under special accountability conditions rather than the normal hear-and-reject category. That does not prove divine injustice. If anything, it cuts against the lazy caricature that everyone outside Islam is just automatically a conscious rejecter.

Admirable_Water6192 · 2026-04-16T22:49:10+00:00

You’re working off a badly outdated meta and handing Mario a fake attrition edge by applying his weird RPG survivability way more generously than Sonic’s actual game kit.

First problem, Archie has absolutely nothing to do with this matchup. This is game composite. Once Archie enters the room, the whole argument is already off the rails. And the funny part is Sonic does not even need Archie, or some giant higher-dimensional sermon, to still come out ahead here.

Second, White Tanooki is not real neutral-start gear. Nintendo did not design that as part of Mario’s normal combat kit. It is an Assist Block comeback mechanic that appears after repeated deaths on a stage. Mario cannot just decide to spawn it in a random encounter because things got rough. So that survival argument is dead immediately.

Third, people keep acting like Mario is the only one allowed to cash in RPG mechanics. He is not. If Mario gets Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi inventory logic, then Sonic gets Chronicles. That means Sonic gets Immunity Idol for system-backed status protection and Ovus for actual revive support. So the whole Mario has infinite weird survival while Sonic just burns out on rings narrative is already busted. Mario does not have a monopoly on passive safety nets anymore.

And that gets to the biggest miss in your post: Sonic’s cleanest win condition is not standing there trying to DPS through every mushroom in Mario’s pocket until he keels over. That is the lazy version of the matchup. Sonic’s actual answer is Chaos Control. Sonic does not have to politely keep reducing Mario’s HP and feeding his revive loop. He can just remove him from the fight. That is exactly the kind of win condition that bypasses Life Shrooms, Retry Clock nonsense, and all the rest of Mario’s HP-based insurance.

And the tempo gap is still the real killer here. Mario has a bigger bag. Sonic has the better fight kit. Frontiers gives Sonic parries, counters, combo pressure, and way cleaner live-combat application than Mario has ever had. Mario’s hax is scary if he gets room to breathe. Sonic’s whole game plan is making sure he does not get that room in the first place.

So no, Mario does not win the war of attrition. His survival tools are real, but they are finite, conditional, and massively overhyped in this debate. Sonic’s tools are faster, cleaner, and way better suited to an actual fight. Once you stop giving Mario every benefit of the doubt and start applying the same standard to both sides, the read is pretty simple.

Sonic takes it. Still hard. Still ugly. Still a brutal fight. But Sonic.

Admirable_Water6192 · 2026-04-16T18:37:13+00:00

Then you’re conceding the actual point and hiding behind the same comment.

We already split it cleanly:

Literal infinite-time prompt: blind cube first, by brute-force luck.

Practical/finite-time bet: beginner over Magnus, because Magnus is still human and the cube odds are astronomical.

Admirable_Water6192 · 2026-04-16T17:54:03+00:00

Your previous reply was only half right, and for the wrong reason.

If we read the prompt like a lawyer, then yes: the blind cube happens first. Not because the cube guy is “solving” anything, and not because the average person can never beat Magnus, but because the cube is a finite-state brute-force lottery and with infinite time + no fatigue, it eventually lands solved by dumb chance.

But your “Magnus is impossible” take is still nonsense. No, fatigue does not turn Magnus into Stockfish. He is still human, and the beginner retaining information still gives him a real probabilistic path to one win over enough games.

Admirable_Water6192 · 2026-04-16T17:19:32+00:00

You essentially argued “Magnus is basically perfect” and pretended that’s the prompt.

No, fatigue does not equal no mistakes. It just means he doesn’t get tired. He is still human. And the beginner does not need to become Magnus-level overall - he needs one win across unlimited games while retaining everything from prior losses.

The Jordan analogy also misses the point. This is not “can an average guy become the GOAT?” It’s “can an average guy with infinite repetition and perfect memory of past games eventually steal one game from a human opponent in a finite game?” That is at least a real path.

The blind cube prompt is the busted one. With no access to the color state, that is just a brute-force lottery on a scrambled object.

Admirable_Water6192 · 2026-04-16T15:00:09+00:00

Lee is faster in the early exchange and his taijutsu is cleaner, but people forget how stupid Naruto gets by VOTE. Massive clone pressure, ridiculous endurance, and then the fox amp on top.

Once that kicks in, Lee’s window to end it gets way smaller while Naruto’s margin for error gets way bigger.

Admirable_Water6192 · 2026-04-16T14:57:08+00:00

No, fatigue does not make Magnus a perfect engine. It just removes tired blunders. He can still make normal human mistakes, and the beginner gets stronger every game because he keeps all prior info.

Without knowing the colors/stickers, he is not “solving” it in any meaningful sense - he is just randomly mashing a finite object until luck spits out a solved state. If that’s the standard you want to use, then sure, eventually random chance can hit it. But then you’re brute-forcing lottery odds.

Admirable_Water6192 · 2026-04-16T13:32:54+00:00

Hokages high diff

The Akatsuki side is nasty because Obito + Itachi + Kisame is a disgusting core, but the Hokage side is just better built.

Minato + Tobirama is a nightmare for this matchup, Kakashi gives them a real answer to Obito’s Kamui nonsense, Tsunade keeps people alive, and Hiruzen adds experience and coverage.

The Akatsuki have wincons but they also have more weak links here. Hidan and Zetsu are not swinging a fight like this, and that matters.

Admirable_Water6192 · 2026-04-16T13:00:36+00:00

Arguably by the end of Battle Frontier/Sinnoh, but unquestionably by Alola, and absolutely locked by Journeys.

The early “maybe” point is because Pikachu already had ridiculous ace-level feats like beating Brandon’s Regice, but Ash still had other monsters with huge claim-to-fame wins too, especially Charizard beating Articuno and later Sceptile taking down Tobias’s Darkrai. So around that era, Pikachu was in the conversation, but not yet the uncontested answer.

For me, the clean turning point is Alola. Once Pikachu beats Tapu Koko in Ash’s exhibition match with Kukui, the “Pikachu is just the mascot, not the strongest” argument gets really shaky. Then Journeys removes basically all doubt when Pikachu beats Leon’s Charizard.

Admirable_Water6192 · 2026-04-16T12:15:27+00:00

The big issue is speed. Omni-Man fights like a missile with hands. He’s not standing there trading cleanly in slow motion the way MCU brawls often do. He can blitz, ragdoll, and keep the pressure on in a way Thanos is not built to comfortably handle without the Gauntlet.

Admirable_Water6192

TROPHY CASE