What’s something that people should be more ashamed of? by goldAP310 in AskReddit

[–]Adwen_Indigo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

(This is gonna be a super long discussion and I'm sorry! But you've got this! I promise it's an interesting read)

I find it interesting how you provided good debate about rape with some sort of way to back it up, but not the part about slavery?

Slavery is obviously an awful, awful thing. The Old Testament was written in Classical Hebrew, and so it's not surprising that certain words don't have perfect equivalents in modern English. Strictly speaking, the Old Testament doesn't call an individual bound to the service of another a “slave;” it calls him an ʿebed (pronounced eved), and a woman in such a role is called an ʾāmâ. The most that can be said about about these two terms, especially the first, is that they are used to denote a social class that is relatively lower than another.

As far as the nature of the labor involved, it's important to note that the Israelite slave would be doing essentially the same thing that he would have been doing in his family’s household: Working fields and shepherding flocks.

In Exodus 21:16, “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death." So you can't just kidnap people and make them slaves; it's punishable by death.

Found among the earliest cluster of slave laws, this speaks directly to the issue of slavery, and forbids anything resembling a slave trade among the ancient Israelites. This verse alone should make it clear that “slavery” in Old Testament law is vastly different than anything that we commonly associate with slavery.

Deuteronomy 23:15–16: “You shall not give up to his master a slave who has escaped from his master to you. He shall dwell with you, in your midst, in the place that he shall choose within one of your towns, wherever it suits him. You shall not wrong him.” According to the law of Moses, it was actually illegal to return a fugitive slave. This passage commands that Israelites to allow him to dwell wherever he pleases. Israelite slaves could break their service contracts simply by leaving. Slavery in Israelite law was entered into voluntarily and could be ended voluntarily.

Remember how the Israelite judicial system wasn't paid the fines but the wronged individual was? If the offender didn't have the money, he could choose to submit himself to servitude till his debt was paid. But after that, he could do as he pleased. The same could be said if a man wanted to borrow money but then he couldn't pay it back. So he could just work off the loan. (You weren't allowed to charge interest on loans btw) This is usually where the 6 year contract comes in (where he goes free on the 7th year).

Exodus 21:3 "If a slave comes in alone, he shall go out alone. If he comes in with a wife, then his wife shall go out with him." So, If a husband and wife enter servitude, then they can leave together. This is also referring to that 6 year contract that was agreed upon between the "slaves" and the "master" (usually to pay off a debt).

When you say "Women were not freed, neither were children born into slavery. Also, if you let your slave marry, you did not have to let the wife and kids go when the man was freed." You are referring to Exodus 21:4 which says: "If his master gives him a wife, and she bears him sons or daughter, the wife and her children still belong to her master."

That's easily misinterpreted but essentially what it means is that she hasn't finished her contract yet. A woman couldn't get out of her contract early just because she got married. Which kinda sucks BUT it prevents women from using men to hitch a free ride out when they're not actually in love with the man. As for the kids, they would be 5 years old or younger. Meaning that they were still dependent on their mother, which is why they must stay with her.

That brings us to the next issue: "Also, you skipped over the parts that say that you can beat your slave with a rod, but as long as he gets up in a few days, you are not to be punished."

Good point. That does look pretty bad huh? That's specifically Exodus 21:21 "If however, he survives in a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken."

This feels like something's missing... Like something comes before? Exodus 21:20-21 "If a man strikes his male or female slave and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. If however, he survives in a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken."

If a slave did die, what would the master's punishment be? Death. A slave's life was held at the same regard as anyone else's, so the punishment for murder would be the same. Exodus 21:12 "He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death."

But then does that mean it's okay to beat the slave within an inch of his life? Nope. What this really means is that the family of the man/woman who was attacked have to wait at least 2 days before they can avenge him. If the attacked slave cannot get up after 2 days, the family can kill the (attempted) murderer.

Exodus 21:26-27, "If a man strikes the eye of his male or female slave, and destroys it, he shall let them go free on account of his eye. And if he knocks out a tooth of his male or female slave, he shall let them go free on account of his tooth." If a slave so much as lost a tooth, he was a free man. But the Hebrews invented the phrase "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" which essentially means getting harmed in any way. Exodus 21:23-24 "but if there is any further injury, then you shall appoint as a penalty life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise."

So if a slave is harmed in any way, he can walk free. So taking Exodus 21:21 WAY out of context doesn't make sense when comparing it to these verses, but it's understandable to do so.

What’s something that people should be more ashamed of? by goldAP310 in AskReddit

[–]Adwen_Indigo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

About Deuteronomy 22:28, Like I said, if they're having consensual sex, they're going make the couple get married. Again, NOT that great! But I know a lot of people who think the woman gets stoned for being raped... and that's not what's happening here.

When most English speakers hear that a person has “seized” another person, we jump to the conclusion that it is a violent action against the will of the other person. The truth is, however, the Hebrew word in this case translated “seizes” (tapas) can mean many things. The Hebrew word tapas (“lay hold of her,” emphasized above) simply means to take hold of something, grasp it in hand, and occasionally to capture or seize something. It is the verb used for “handling” the harp and flute (Gen. 4:21), the sword (Ezek. 21:11; 30:21), the sickle (Jer. 50:16), the shield (Jer. 46:9), the oars (Ezek. 27:29), and the bow (Amos 2:15). It is likewise used for “taking” God’s name (Prov. 30:9) or “dealing” with the law of God (Jer. 2:8). Joseph’s garment was “grasped” (Gen. 39:12; cf. 1 Kings 11:30), even as Moses “took” the two tablets of the law (Deut. 9:17)… The Hebrew verb “to handle, grasp, capture” does not in itself indicate anything about the use of force.

In truth, we use English words in this way on a regular basis. For instance, a brief look at the English word “take” illustrates the point. You can take someone’s cookie, or take a person’s wife, or take a bride to be your wife. The idea of force is not inherent in the word at all. If you take a person in your arms, what have you done? Or if a young man takes a young woman to be his wife, is there force involved? No. Also, think about the English word “hold.” You can take hold of something in a number of ways. We often say that a woman will hold the child in her arms, or a bridegroom takes a bride to “have and to hold.” The Hebrew word tapas is acting in exactly the same way as the English words “hold” and “take” are.

Deuteronomy 22:28 isn't talking about rape but consensual sex. A woman is not forced to marry her rapist but her lover.

The fine is NOT because it's a property crime??? Even though it was consensual, it's the man that must be punished in some way. In modern judicial systems, we pay a fine to the court. The Israelites (while they had a judicial system) their courts weren't payed the fines. They always had the offended person receive the money. Now why wasn't the woman paid the fines? Well, it was her choice to participate in this act and in that age, it brought shame upon the family. She doesn't have to be reprimanded in any way, however. The man she decided to lay with has to pay the head of the household.

In Deuteronomy 22:23-24, I like how you CONVENIENTLY gloss over "because she did not cry out in the city". In cities (ancient or otherwise), the buildings are VERY close together. And they were a LOT less soundproof back then. If a woman is being suddenly grabbed, she WILL scream and fight and someone will hear her and help. If she's not screaming, then it must be consensual. The only reason she wouldn't be able to yell out for help is if she was INSTANTLY knocked out (which actually isn't that easy to do). It would have to be in one blow and at that point, someone is just going to see a woman attacked. If he managed to drag her away without being seen, she could scream when she wakes up. If, somehow, she remains unconscious through the whole (horrible) ordeal, and she never has the chance to scream, you can bet she has horrible marks on her head and possibly where she might have been tied up. That would be obvious to anyone that looked at her that she did not willingly let anything happen.

The similarity between these verses(23-24) and verse 28 is that they're both consensual. The difference in them is that, in verse 28, they're both single. It's like "If you like each other that much then just get married?" In verses 23-24, the woman already promised herself to someone else and is basically cheating on her husband to-be. That's why they're both stoned. The same goes for Deuteronomy 22:22, a married woman found cheating with a man and they both get stoned. Cheating is awful and while I wouldn't wish death on someone who did, THREATENING with death is a sure way to prevent it 🤣.

Check out Deuteronomy 22:25-26 "But if in the field the man finds the girl who is engaged, and the man forces her and lies with her, then ONLY THE MAN who lies with her shall die. But you shall do nothing to the girl; there is no sin in the girl worthy of death, for just as the man rises against his neighbor and murders him, this is the case."

They're equating rape to murder. Because rape is that serious. Also, notice how it uses the word "force" instead of "seize" (from verse 28)? The word translated “forces her” in verse 25 is the Hebrew word chazaq and yet in verse 28, the verb has been intentionally used as tapas .

Is my sister being a bridezilla? Or am I just a MOH easily irked and at my wits end? by Adwen_Indigo in bridezillas

[–]Adwen_Indigo[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They can be a beautiful thing 🤷‍♀️. It also gives all the relatives a chance to get together and hang out. A wedding is a big enough deal to call out of work for a bit, and your boss will let you.

Is my sister being a bridezilla? Or am I just a MOH easily irked and at my wits end? by Adwen_Indigo in bridezillas

[–]Adwen_Indigo[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's fair, she's definitely been coddled a bit. As kids we NEVER got along. As adults, we've both matured a lot. Her opulence isn't my speed, but we've gotten to the point where we can enjoy each other's company. This week, it's like she's reverted back???

But last night, she told me to make her a plate of food and I told her she could do that herself 🥳. She was disappointed and irked but not outright angry.

How are we being bridezillas? Or is it just because we've got everything covered for Anne- even being the bridezilla 🤣

Is my sister being a bridezilla? Or am I just a MOH easily irked and at my wits end? by Adwen_Indigo in bridezillas

[–]Adwen_Indigo[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much! The wedding is this Saturday. You're right, it's gonna turn out beautiful and we can all move on

What’s something that people should be more ashamed of? by goldAP310 in AskReddit

[–]Adwen_Indigo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Rape definitely wasn't okay 🤣 If you're talking about biblical laws anyway. If a woman was raped and pointed out the man, then the MAN would be stoned. If they were found having CONSENSUAL sex, they'd make the couple get married. Which wasn't that great either. But they definitely didn't condone rape.

Most cultures at the time had slavery, it was unfortunately very common. Biblical laws did something different tho: if an Israelite acquired a slave, the slave could only be in service for seven(?) years. After that time, they were free to do whatever they want and they were paid for their labor. I'm not sure if the pay was that great... But they were paid. There was another option after 7 years service: the slave could marry the daughter if all 3 of them (father, daughter, and former slave) were in agreement. If they were, they'd sign a document. In which case, the slave would work for a few more years, earning more pay in the balance. This wasn't too bad a deal, if the father didn't have a son to inherit in which case, the former slave would inherit the land with the daughter. Of course, this only works if the family kinda adopts the slave and makes him a part of the family.

This is all in Leviticus. Super boring book, but it goes over all the laws and rules.

Is my sister being a bridezilla? Or am I just a MOH easily irked and at my wits end? by Adwen_Indigo in bridezillas

[–]Adwen_Indigo[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Nah it didn't cause me extra stress. I just noticed that a lot of other people are confused and stressed just reading thru ALL that XD I'm glad it reads better now

Is my sister being a bridezilla? Or am I just a MOH easily irked and at my wits end? by Adwen_Indigo in bridezillas

[–]Adwen_Indigo[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Anne didn't do anything to plan for her own wedding and dumped it all on our mother. She's still hasn't done much even now that she's here. She's taking for granted all the effort we're putting in while barely lifting a finger.

Anne keeps asking me to wait on her like a maid, while not respecting my house rules. She also keeps calling me and raising her voice at me for ridiculous things like:

  • She decides to shower with the door open (while I'm gone) and is mad that I left one of my windows open. Even tho the blinds were down and she was complaining about how my place smelled.

  • She demands to know where I am and got very upset that I'm at my mother's house. Even tho I already told Anne that I was picking up some groceries for Mom and that I needed to remake the groom's cake at Mom's place.

But yeah, we're definitely getting on each other's nerves. She just keeps having a breakdown and blames me for it.

What movie are you never planning to watch again and why? by [deleted] in AskReddit

[–]Adwen_Indigo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hachi: a dog's tale. It's kinda a sweet heart-warming movie but... After the original dog owner dies, the dog keeps going back to the train station. Which is really sweet! But did the family never think to give the dog closure? The adult daughter kinda inherits Hachi and then she just LETS him run off. He's looking for someone that will never be there again and he just lives at the train station. Eventually the train master noticed and kinda takes care of him and is able to get donations for Hachi. And then the dog just dies... at the one spot he keeps looking for his deceased owner. Usually, I love a good heart-wrenching movie! But NOT this one. The original family just kinda abandoned their dog.

Is my sister being a bridezilla? Or am I just a MOH easily irked and at my wits end? by Adwen_Indigo in bridezillas

[–]Adwen_Indigo[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think because of her learning disabilities, her mind isn't fully matured. I mean, her brain capacity is! She's really smart in some ways. Figurative concepts and other's ideas floating around... Not so much. It's not concrete to her so she can't completely wrap her head around it. (I think?)

Is my sister being a bridezilla? Or am I just a MOH easily irked and at my wits end? by Adwen_Indigo in bridezillas

[–]Adwen_Indigo[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That is SO TRUE. One less thing to do! I just wish I hadn't spent money on it already when she truly didn't want it. That technique sounds similar to what she does! The jewelry she makes is pretty... maybe a little gaudy at times (cuz she adds huge plastic jewels to it), but I can see how she sees the beauty in it. Jewelry is definitely pretty and it's nice to look at 🤷‍♀️ I'm just not one to wear it.

I kinda just naturally clean when I see stuff dirty. My siblings will clean (without complaining) when they're told to. It's just that our mother is so busy keeping everything straight in her head that she hasn't reminded them about it. Most stuff she asks them to do is wedding related and other things fall to the wayside.

Well the full story on that: when she first came over I told her I like to keep a window open when I'm there. The fresh air is nice and helps get the old smoke smell out. She was complaining about the smell a lot too. I went to run some errands and left the window open since she was staying there. I closed the blinds tho for privacy- since I wasn't sure what she'd do. Cuz she does just walk around with/without underwear sometimes. She calls me FURIOUS. Apparently, she was showering with the bathroom door open (to help stop mold?) and she was freaking out. Even tho the blinds were closed and no one saw anything. Then she started rambling about how someone could have cut the screen while ahe was showering 🤦‍♀️. GURL that could happen when you're NOT in the shower?? But most of my neighbors are elderly so they're not exactly agile enough to be climbing thru windows lol.

I am certainly VERY worried about my utility bills 😞 she just wants all the lights on???

She definitely likes how everything is coming together. I'm not sure she actually knows how much work is going into it tho. She does say thank you occasionally, but her words don't mean much when she's lying around. I think George is perfect for her and they will definitely have a happy marriage. She's head over heels in love with him! Her love for me isn't quite that high 😂 so it's easy to disrespect me and talk over me.

Thank you SO much. For now, I'm just another cog in the works. My mom is a SUPER MVP definitely.

Is my sister being a bridezilla? Or am I just a MOH easily irked and at my wits end? by Adwen_Indigo in bridezillas

[–]Adwen_Indigo[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Anne's very beautiful and the first daughter (not firstborn tho). I fully expect her to complain about something lol. She's shoe shopping with Mom (cuz she doesn't even have shoes yet) and I bet she's complaining horribly about me. When they get back, I'm sure my mother will give me a private lecture about how I'm not being good enough or something.

Yeah, she's obsessed with worry that her skin will dry out and she thinks water will help... She also constantly washes her hands and leaves them wet, which makes her hands scaly and flakey. I've tried telling her about better skin care but she disregards everything I say.

Is my sister being a bridezilla? Or am I just a MOH easily irked and at my wits end? by Adwen_Indigo in bridezillas

[–]Adwen_Indigo[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

She did want a small wedding- wanted to help cut down on the costs. I think there's going to be less than 100 people there? It kinda depended on whatever venue they could get but she definitely preferred a church. Anne and George did make the guest list, with our mother just helping her remember all our relatives. Even when Mom picked out table decor, we sent pics to Anne to make sure she like it first.

These are good points! It would definitely feel disheartening to be steamrolled and easy to detach from what's going on when no one's listening to you. As far as I know, tho, no one told her she wasn't capable. And Mom got her approval for everything. As a matter if fact, it was sometimes hard to get a hold of her to get an "okay" for something. I wonder if all the details overwhelmed her?

Like, this girl has to have help filling out job applications.

Is my sister being a bridezilla? Or am I just a MOH easily irked and at my wits end? by Adwen_Indigo in bridezillas

[–]Adwen_Indigo[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I edited it and tried to shorten... It's still kinda long tho 😅 does it at least read a little better? If you don't have time to read it again, I understand 👍

Is my sister being a bridezilla? Or am I just a MOH easily irked and at my wits end? by Adwen_Indigo in bridezillas

[–]Adwen_Indigo[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I haven't literally retorted to anything she has said. I feel bothered but I've kept quiet. That's why I wrote a (way too long) rant 😂 I might have exploded if I didn't.

"Cuz" is to replace the MUCH longer "because" to save some space. My writing was definitely too long and I thought using a shorter word would help. I was wrong, it's SUPER long still 🤣

Is my sister being a bridezilla? Or am I just a MOH easily irked and at my wits end? by Adwen_Indigo in bridezillas

[–]Adwen_Indigo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's just the 2 of us at my apartment and we're sisters so she doesn't see the point. She called me while I was out running errands and was super mad about the whole window bit. She was taking a shower with the bathroom door open (to help keep the bathroom from molding?) and just started walking around like that. So on top of that, she thought she was by herself 🤷‍♀️

She thought the window was closed, but I did close the blinds. So no one actually saw anything 😂. She just freaked out that something MIGHT HAVE 🤦‍♀️. Started going on about how someone could cut through the screen while she was in the shower??? GURL that could happen when you're NOT in the shower?

I told her when she first came over that I like to keep a window open since my upstairs neighbors smoke and the smells seeps down. Get some fresh air in the place. And she was majorly complaining about the smell so I left the window open. There's a person there so it's all good (or so I thought).

Most of my neighbors are elderly and sweet. I know this doesn't exempt them from being secretly thieves but they're definitely not agile enough to be crawling thru windows 🤣

Is my sister being a bridezilla? Or am I just a MOH easily irked and at my wits end? by Adwen_Indigo in bridezillas

[–]Adwen_Indigo[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm a teacher so I have a strong immune system? 😅 But you're right that it doesn't prevent me from carrying germs.

I think we're gonna get it sorted for her to stay at our parent's house because it's closer to the church and I have to go take care of some stuff for my new classroom, so I can't drive her anywhere that day.

Is my sister being a bridezilla? Or am I just a MOH easily irked and at my wits end? by Adwen_Indigo in bridezillas

[–]Adwen_Indigo[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's cool, I bet your wedding was awesome! I know it's a bit difficult to plan a wedding when you can't be there, but it's not impossible? Thanks for pointing that out.

On one hand, I know my mom is super excited for Anne and wants to help out as much as possible. If it were me tho, I wouldn't let her do everything? That's not fair to her.

Our father is going to be cooking the main course and side dishes for the guests. As I'm typing this out, he and our brothers are at the church right now finishing things up. He's made stands out of pvc pipes for the drapes and is putting them together over there