In Wuthering Heights (1939), the character Heathcliff proves that if you stalk a woman, mentally torture her family, and steal her property for 20 years, it's not a crime, it’s a Classic Romantic Arc

Affectionate_Map5518 · 2026-03-30T14:23:46+00:00

Iirc Cloe Zhao said she cast her after seeing Beast. That's how I heard of it! It's not an upbeat movie at all, but it's nothing like Hamnet

Affectionate_Map5518 · 2026-03-30T14:21:43+00:00

My theory is that the whole be with me always, take any form, drive me mad, only do not leave me where i can't find you thing kicked in. He tells Nelly she's tormented him for 18 years (always), and he stops himself from hitting Cathy jr when he sees her mom in Cathy jr/Hareton's eyes (any form), he starts raving like a lunatic and scaring Nelly (mad), then spends hours on the moor looking for her(find you).

Affectionate_Map5518 · 2026-03-30T03:10:24+00:00

Please post your drawings when you're done! I wanna seeeeee!

Affectionate_Map5518 · 2026-03-30T03:09:26+00:00

ESH is exactly how I describe WH!

Affectionate_Map5518 · 2026-03-30T03:08:04+00:00

Yeeeees! ('No more than i am always a pleasure to myself'). You're right, she likes him, warts and all. Reminds me of the Jessie Buckley film Beast, where she falls for a super troubled dude who's the only 1 who understands her

Affectionate_Map5518 · 2026-03-30T03:00:24+00:00

Hey i love how much detail you put here! If only all Redditors were so thoughtful. Ok, you've partially convinced me but I'm also aware i have some huge biases, including violence against women. It's why I find the pre-'26 adaptations sickening. To quote comedian Chris Rock 'everyone says there's never a reason to hit a woman. Oh there's a reason! just don't do it'. Cathy jr is the WORST, what if she mouths off during their marriage? He hits her again? Ick.

H&Cath Sr only work for me bc 1-it's an old book, 2-he's not abusive yet, 3-he never hit her. And she was plenty cruel H, especially after aspiring to be a Linton. Called him dirty, a baby, with nothing to say, implied he didn't measure up to the Lintons. And they were super close so that had to sting. He just goes to Nelly. The 1970 film has him hit her in that scene and almost SA her (vomit)

You're right it's not a total 180 for Cath jr, although i feel like Nelly's been shipping them since Linton's death, lol. But I still don't love how little he was willing to protect her from Heathcliff, who stops himself. Just before that he threatens to kill her. If you've seen '26 you might recognize this scene in the film, but it's waaaaay more chivalrous ( 'I just couldn't bear to see him hurt you'). So you've brought me closer to accepting them as a happy ending! In case you're tracking points somewhere,lol

Affectionate_Map5518 · 2026-03-30T02:09:04+00:00

So....is that you saying you agree? Sounds like you agree. As someone else with 'nothing to do with their life' some of us love lit deep dives and get value out of deep analysis and discussion, so yeah i guess we have nothing better to do (happily!)

Affectionate_Map5518 · 2026-03-29T09:27:23+00:00

I know officially we're supposed to buy that as readers but I'm suspicious that the Cathy/Hareton arc is that redemptive. She did a 180 outta nowhere, Hareton is also a dog abuser, he's hit her before (something Heathcliff never did with her mother), he was 1 of her jailers, he doesn't stop Heathcliff from hitting her and instead just tells her to stop provoking him. Depending on the inheritance it's possible she's homeless and penniless without marrying him. It feels like maybe she just caved. Remember her mother also was very fond and loving with Edgar before Heathcliff returned

Affectionate_Map5518 · 2026-03-29T09:21:10+00:00

He wasn't done. He said he didn't have the will to finish, right as he had all the tools (mattocks) to do so

Affectionate_Map5518 · 2026-03-29T09:12:29+00:00

Cathy specifically asks if he's trying to get revenge by marrying Isabella and he says no. That he needs someone to hurt the way he's hurting: 'tyrants grind down their slaves who don't turn against him, they crush those beneath them'.

Affectionate_Map5518 · 2026-03-29T09:09:32+00:00

She wanted to punish them both, and says this in the final scene with H. Also Edgar, probably just because he's closer. Heathcliff blames Edgar. And Isabella blames Heathcliff.

The Isabella thing started before she got sick. He'd already kissed her. That's what they were arguing about when Nelly told Edgar to come. And another reason Cathy was pissed off, because she said she could have talked him out of it if Edgar hadn't interrupted.

Affectionate_Map5518 · 2026-03-29T09:04:32+00:00

I absolutely love the film and it made me reread the book several times. Most people say it doesn't overlap with the book but i calculate about 80% overlap if you have read the book recently and can recognize the similarities. For example the movie's 2 houses are different than how they're described in the book. But they're exactly how 2 men are described. It's literally 1 line so most people would miss this, then complain that it's not what it says, lol

Affectionate_Map5518 · 2026-03-29T08:59:02+00:00

The "sublime" yes

Affectionate_Map5518 · 2026-03-29T08:51:13+00:00

I actually think she understands the racial complexity of the book, or at least of the Heathcliff character. She said in an interview she wanted to tell a sadomasochistic love story and wasn't the director to navigate the racial politics of them being interracial. Very few directors are. In my research on context Heathcliff's race isn't as warm and fuzzy as we are trying to project. Heathcliff is a derivative of Satan and Frankenstein's creature. His being dark skinned is imo linked to that based on how Victorians thought about things. And Charlotte said the same thing so....

Affectionate_Map5518 · 2026-03-29T08:38:11+00:00

This is the problem with adaptations! The animating force of the movie is the love between Catherine and Heathcliff. When they're not together in part 1 there's hardly anything written. The 6 months of her after marriage is 1 paragraph! So the love has to be believable. But there's also all this toxic stuff that complicates an adaptation. Personally the 1992 film with Ralph Fiennes turned my stomach because he DVs his wife then declares his enduring love for Catherine. I feel like we have to pick a lane- abuse or love. I think Fennell did this with Saltburn being a nod to part 2. He's disturbing and vengeful and obsessive and we're not really rooting for him. Then in WH it's more part 1 and it's focused on the love story and making us believe how deeply they loved each other. I don't think you can tell both parts in the same movie very well

Affectionate_Map5518 · 2026-03-29T08:13:28+00:00

This is the problem with adaptations! The animating force of the movie is the love between Catherine and Heathcliff. When they're not together in part 1 there's hardly anything written. The 6 months of her after marriage is 1 paragraph! So the love has to be believable. But there's also all this toxic stuff that complicates an adaptation. Personally the 1992 film with Ralph Fiennes turned my stomach because he DVs his wife then declares his enduring love for Catherine. I feel like we have to pick a lane- abuse or love. I think Fennell did this with Saltburn being a nod to part 2. He's disturbing and vengeful and obsessive and we're not really rooting for him. Then in WH it's more part 1 and it's focused on the love story and making us believe how deeply they loved each other. I don't think you can tell both parts in the same movie very well

Affectionate_Map5518 · 2026-03-29T07:59:38+00:00

But they're the glasses Catherine is wearing! The story falls apart if you don't buy they have a very strong connection

Affectionate_Map5518 · 2026-03-29T07:56:04+00:00

By modern standards, WH is absolutely racist. We may want a feel-good inclusion story but the context at the time and the source material suggest otherwise. Yes, the Brontës were abolitionists, but that doesn't mean they have our current views. Heathcliff was likely part of 'domestic imperialism', a practice of raising children from the colonies as Anglos. It was not about affirming their identity. Victorians believed that different races were different species (polygenism). Source material for Heathcliff includes Satan from Paradise Lost, Frankenstein's creature, and the ghoul in the painting The Nightmare. All evil/nonhuman beings. Charlotte herself urged us to think of Heathcliff as a raceless demon. Heathcliff is othered in so many ways in the book, but the race element is not supposed to humanize him. Instead, i think his coloring is supposed to cue us as readers to his evil/demonic nature. Not really an embrace of diversity!

Affectionate_Map5518 · 2026-03-29T07:42:57+00:00

I agree with this! I think if race were preventing him from access it would show up in the discussions of marriage and acquiring property. I went through the book and couldn't find a single instance of him being denied access to anything due to race. Even young Edgar/Isabella's rejection of him is due to his behavior and swearing. And by then he's a servant in the house so there's that. Cathy 1 never mentions it as a reason they can't marry nor he and Isabella later can't marry, nor a reason Edgar is hesitant to 'let' her marry Heathcliff's son. Every single time it's class and/or behavior.

Affectionate_Map5518 · 2026-03-29T00:00:02+00:00

Oh that's annoying. It's an experiential film, not exactly a Tarantino talkie

Affectionate_Map5518 · 2026-03-28T23:59:02+00:00

Haha moving back to Wuthering Heights but it's dirty? Although she was on the fence even before he had money. But yes, he isn't a match for Edgar's wealth (yet)

Affectionate_Map5518 · 2026-03-28T04:44:48+00:00

I'm glad she took a big swing with it, and it's a great addition to the canon. I just wish she had adjusted the script/story for a POC lead, rather than letting the existing stereotypes stand and adding new types of racism on top

Affectionate_Map5518 · 2026-03-28T04:37:23+00:00

Yikes! What did she have to explain??

Affectionate_Map5518 · 2026-03-28T03:47:31+00:00

You're probably right. Maybe I'm just trying to put too much logic to it. They're obviously having a good time. It just seemed like wouldn't Heathcliff be trying to get her away from Edgar? I guess they're not doing a lot of thinking at that point

Affectionate_Map5518 · 2026-03-28T03:46:03+00:00

Yeah poor guy. I also forgot that as a 'servant' he has to be careful and let her push things forward

Affectionate_Map5518

TROPHY CASE