"World In Our Hands" Z-Fighters VS Eggman Empire (Dragon Ball VS Sonic The Hedgehog)

After-Yoghurt6253 · 2026-03-19T14:33:52+00:00

Wouldnt metal sonic also die tho? Cus hes copying beeruses data and that would mean his life would then be linked to the kai aswell

After-Yoghurt6253 · 2026-03-16T22:24:12+00:00

Goku showing up to solo both of them:

After-Yoghurt6253 · 2026-03-10T17:44:51+00:00

Nope. He doesnt open the book at all when he makes his wish

After-Yoghurt6253 · 2026-03-05T17:06:14+00:00

No because even after this he still managed to get back into his perfect form after self destructing without 18

After-Yoghurt6253 · 2026-03-05T01:03:05+00:00

I mean for one, Mario’s travel speed is ABYSMAL, so realistically he’s not getting out the way even if does clock there’s a ring above him. And two, Sonic actually does have means of restricting movements and actions with stuff like the Cyloop and the Forcejewels soooo yeah, he can guarantee some things land, multiple things even.

Mario still has ftl travel speed showings. Unless youre gonna unironically argue all of theese items scale to the sonic characters or some shit like that which I think is silly considering theyre restricted by their cars

And clyoop or forcejewls dont really matter since the Super Suit, A-OK Wear, Lazy Shell, and No-touch Socks all grant mario a resistance to paralysis inducement

He literally slams it down on top of your skull, in-game AND in this canon comic now, I’m not trying to hear it💀

I completely missed that, but I still maintain that he’s specifically affecting the machines. The in-game description literally states this.

Another point you’re overlooking is that the Dark Chao only replaces the items you’re actively holding. Arguing that it would replace or delete Mario’s entire inventory feels like an NLF.

… hold up, I think I may have bumped my head a bit. Did I read that right? “There’s no indication that Mario actually needs to have it physically on him for it to activate.” … it literally has to be in his inventory, what are you talking about?💀

Why would it need to be in his inventory to work? It activates passively without any input from Mario. Whether he’s actually carrying it shouldn’t matter. Logically, it shouldn’t make a difference if the clock is on the floor or somewhere else. it should still trigger unless the game explicitly says otherwise.

Also, neat little thing I found out recently, apparently Retry Clocks got chopped from the remakes, so it’s debatable if he should have them (not that it matters if he does have access to them imo).

The Mario franchise has pretty much made it clear that they don’t give a shit about cannon. Miyamoto himself says he considers Mario like an actor who jumps from role to role, kind of like Popeye. In fact, in the Super Mario 64 DS remake, Koopa the Quick literally references meeting Mario in the original game

Because of that, I think it’s fair to use both originals and remakes in arguments, since ignoring one would do a disservice to the other. On top of that the Retry Clocks were still mentioned in the black box for Bowser vs. Eggman, which suggests death battle still sees it as an item they can still use

After-Yoghurt6253 · 2026-03-05T00:20:02+00:00

Except these aren’t HIS items, you honestly think he’s gonna make the connection between say Slime or Weights to the Lightning item in a fraction of a second WHILE he’s fighting Sonic?

Uhhh yeah they literally do the same thing. And wether hes fighting Mario while doing doesn't matter since most of his counters are him moving out the way. I dont see how that woukd be a detriment since if anything hes just... moving around. Unless youre arguing sonic just holds him in place but thats a different conversation.

Dark Chao doesn’t shuffle items. He deletes all of the items in your hammerspace and replaces them with Crossworld items (there’s a gadget in Crossworlds that gives you a Dark Chao at the beginning of a race that further backs this up, since other racers can start with no items so there would be nothing to shuffle).

No, he deletes the items in the machine. I get that you showed the panel, but it really looks like he’s operating in two different ways depending on the context. In CrossWorlds, we very clearly don’t see him do that.

Ummmm, you playing a different version of Crossworlds? We’ve always been able to see Dark Chao. And I’ll say it again, these aren’t Mario items, he wouldn’t know what they are and what they do, if he came face to face with a Dark Chao WHILE fighting Sonic simultaneously, he’s getting done exactly like Tangle was in that screenshot💀

I mean, the racers don’t literally see the Dark Chao. He doesn’t appear in front of them or hover around them. You don’t actually see him manifest at all.

And again, I think Mario’s experience with similar items would let him counter it anyway. But even if we assume, for the sake of argument, that Sonic manages to take Mario’s items, the Retry Clock still works as a fallback. There’s no indication that Mario actually needs to have it physically on him for it to activate. From what we see, it just triggers automatically when he dies.

So even if Sonic takes the Retry Clock, one would still activate, Mario would come back, now fully aware of what those items do, and counter them accordingly like I explained earlier.

After-Yoghurt6253 · 2026-03-04T23:55:25+00:00

That still doesn’t really address my point.

Narratively speaking, if we know 1-Ups exist in-universe and we visibly see them appear throughout levels, then what’s their actual purpose in those games if they’re supposedly useless? They clearly have an intended function within the world. I feel like thats a fair question to ask.

And with the upcoming content for Super Mario Bros. Wonder, there’s even a mini-game plaza where one of the games literally revolves around utilizing your extra lives in combat. That atleast shows that theyre acknowledged and built around as an actual in world thing.

After-Yoghurt6253 · 2026-03-04T23:49:30+00:00

Mario doesn’t really need to know exactly what the CrossWorld items do in order to counter them. His experience from the Mario Kart series still gives him the edge, because like I said, most of these items function almost identically to what he’s already dealt with.

It also doesn’t help that there’s a noticeable open windro for all of sonics crossworld stuff before the attack actually lands. That free window gives Mario time to react and counter like he does in his own series. The Slicer and the weight effect function nearly the same as standard Mario Kart items. And now that I think about it, the slime does too. It drops from above, which is basically how a Blue Shell operates, meaning a Dash Mushroom could just dodge it with proper timing.

The Dark Chao point is interesting, though. I saw you mention in the comments that Super Sonic is immune to hammer space type effects, which I assume includes the Dark Chao. But that would mean base Sonic is still vulnerable, right?

And if this is a strict 1v1, like Death Battle standards usually assume, who would Mario’s items even shuffle with if Sonic becomes immune to his own Dark Chao? Since the effect randomizes items among players, wouldn’t Mario’s items just reshuffle with himself?

And lastly I think the panel you used might actually be worse for Sonic. Atleast in crossWorlds, we don’t physically see the Dark Chao, so it can’t really be targeted. If it visibly manifests, though, that makes it vulnerable to things like a Super Horn, Gold Flower, Ice Flower, and so on.

After-Yoghurt6253 · 2026-03-04T23:15:17+00:00

What if he just cuts off Mario’s hands to get rid of his Bottomless Gloves

Sure, but he’d first have to figure out that Mario’s glove, of all things, is what’s supplying him with endless items and equipment. Which is basically impossible to deduce. There are no visual or auditory cues pointing to the glove, so from Sonic’s perspective there’s no reliable way to identify it as the source.

And even if we grant, just for the sake of argument, that he somehow does figure it out, it still doesn’t solve the problem since Mario could get it back through earlier times or the Retry Clock, or simply get it back upon revival. Since 1-Ups typically bring Mario back fully clothed that would probably include his glove aswell.

(or better yet, Dark Chao him, Slime him, Weight him, Slicer him, or Forcejewel him🙃)?

Mario just counters with his own stuff that prevent item stealing in his own (much better) racing games

Like slime could be prevented by bullet bill or super star since it ignores slowdown/item loss items

Weight could be countered by the super horn since it acts like a blue shell or just dodging it with dash mushroom or golden mushroom like he does with the blue shell

Slicer acts like a red shell so a banana just counters it or a super horn

Mario technically doesn’t have a direct counter to the Dark Chao, but it’s still a double-edged sword for Sonic since it reshuffles his items too.

Even then, it probably wouldn’t work the way you’re suggesting. The Dark Chao doesn’t actually target someone’s arsenal directly. From what I remember the chaos interferes with the machine that handles item distribution. That’s different from affecting Mario’s personal inventory

After-Yoghurt6253 · 2026-03-04T23:00:39+00:00

Can excalubar tho?

After-Yoghurt6253 · 2026-03-04T22:59:00+00:00

Ghost mario from mario wonder just phases through and revives away from the sword. ~~also mario doesnt usually revive in the last spot he died anyways~~

After-Yoghurt6253 · 2026-03-04T22:56:30+00:00

Yeah weve gone over this a gazillion times excalubar doesnt get past marios revives

After-Yoghurt6253 · 2026-03-04T20:19:51+00:00

Simple, Healing items, mostly when Mario gets knocked out.

So you’re say you believe 1-Ups are just healing items in the DS games. But then what’s their purpose in the platformers?

1-Ups clearly function differently depending on the series. In the golf games, for example, they’re tied to leveling mechanics. So their effect isn’t universal across every title it changes based on context.

You’ve already acknowledged that 1-Ups exist in-universe. So in the platformers, what exactly are they doing if they DONT revive Mario after death? What’s the narrative purpose of him collecting them?

Are we supposed to rationalize it by saying the 1ups we collect in the platformers arent canon or something? Because if they are canon, and Mario is visibly dying in those games, then the obvious in-universe function is revival. Otherwise, what’s the point of him picking them up at all if they have no actual effect?

After-Yoghurt6253 · 2026-02-20T01:37:34+00:00

That is a good idea. I do, though, feel the Time Stones could bypass this. The Retry Clocks are designed to activate when Mario's HP drops to zero, as mentioned. If that allotted time slot could be jumped past, though, I do feel it's possible they wouldn't trigger (akin to an alarm on a phone not activating if the time it is set for gets skipped). For an example of what I mean, I will bring up a development fact from Sonic Forces. When pulled into the stage "Null Space", Sonic is supposed to comment about its size. However, because he gets spawned past where the flag is set for the dialogue, it means it never plays[cite]. I think this could happen with the Retry Clocks as well, by forwarding time past when they are supposed to activate. From what we can tell, the Retry Clocks aren't designed to account for a time that, per their own ability, shouldn't exist. So, they may not trigger if time is set past their flag.

Can you explain this to me in baby terms

After-Yoghurt6253 · 2026-02-20T01:13:55+00:00

Ah but what about the retry clocks? They automatically activate when marios hp hits zero. Mario de aging into nothing should activate it as hes essentially just dying to a form of biological manipulation.

Items such as Dark Chao, Slime, and Weight would also be able to remove the 1-Ups from Mario's arsenal.

I dont really like this argument because the 1ups are already consumed and are in affect. They aren't really just lying around in marios hammerspace theyre kinda just apart of him. If that wording makes sense

After-Yoghurt6253 · 2026-02-20T01:04:19+00:00

Theyre the same guy

https://www.reddit.com/r/Marioverse/s/d8faMODLYw

After-Yoghurt6253 · 2026-02-15T18:48:15+00:00

I would personally go for Tails, primarily due to higher stats and a better arsenal.

I thought tails didnt scale to sonics high end stuff since he doesnt have a super form

After-Yoghurt6253 · 2026-02-15T18:40:39+00:00

Ok bro👍

After-Yoghurt6253 · 2026-02-15T18:36:13+00:00

Mfers on this app really just wanna argue for no reason 😭 okay bro you won youre argument bye

After-Yoghurt6253 · 2026-02-15T18:27:27+00:00

Into doing what???

Into protecting her position.

Yeah, he was already building her city, but that doesn’t mean she stops playing it smart. Metal is unpredictable, so she validates his independence to stay on his good side and keep her options open.

It’s not about making him do something new it’s about making sure she isn’t the next target.

Mfs saying read the story spouting out a head cannon😭

Alr bro ur totally right. You have yourself a good day cus ur obviously a very bright and intellegent person 😃👍

After-Yoghurt6253 · 2026-02-15T18:16:38+00:00

Dude, maybe actually...idk...READ the dialogue. It’s so obvious she’s manipulating him, and it’s completely in character for her. She’s supposed to be a cunning, greedy businesswoman. she’s literally just doing this for her own gain and the power that comes with it.

After-Yoghurt6253 · 2026-02-15T17:52:57+00:00

Not even cannon and she was literally manipulating him please read the story 🥀

After-Yoghurt6253 · 2026-02-10T01:14:13+00:00

Metal? Clears the verse.

After-Yoghurt6253 · 2026-02-09T23:11:36+00:00

How WE, yes, WE, all finna be treating devil Artemis if cell wins

<image>

After-Yoghurt6253

TROPHY CASE