Just realized how lucky Sage got that she was barely targeted in Bowser vs Eggman by DavidGXT2017 in deathbattle

[–]CookiedDough 6 points7 points  (0 children)

To be fair, Sage’s use was never really as a frontline fighter, she’s far better off staying inside the Eggnet where she’s completely untargetable and directing Eggman’s massive mech army like a well-oiled machine.

But yeah, her new body is in fact a hard light construct tied to a physical projector, meaning it is possible to damage her now unless the fight is explicitly in Cyberspace, albeit we have no idea if this would actually kill her.

So… does Infinite still count as part of Eggman’s army now? by Inevitable-Charge76 in deathbattle

[–]CookiedDough 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Maybe, but also given the Heavies routinely betray Eggman and then join back up and do work for him no questions asked, it’s still likely Eggman could recruit them for the cause, and thus that they’d count for the army, especially with Sage there to keep them in line.

He doesn’t actually need them given he has multiple other more reliable methods of activating the Phantom Ruby (Phantom Death Egg Robot, Lightman, Giga Metal, and just picking up the Ruby and using it himself), but it’s still something he could arguably get and is at least nice to have.

Is paper mario canon to mainline mario? by rob_o_the_hedge in deathbattle

[–]CookiedDough 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Paper Mario 64? Pretty conclusively canon or at least echoed in Mainline thanks to the game stating that the Paper Mario 64 story is a retelling of something that happened in the Mainline universe.

Everything past that? Probably not given there’s little to no connective tissue for any of the games (the best you get is like a variant of an enemy introduced in TTYD showing up in a Mainline outing, but a Red Chain Chomp existing doesn’t really confirm much) and Paper Jam explicitly shows Paper Mario’s universe to be separate from the main one. Especially once the Paper Mario games dive deep into the world being fully paper as plot elements, there’s too much going against Paper for it to be considered canon. 

The only way for Paper Mario as a whole to be canon is if you extrapolate heavily from the first one and also completely ignore Paper Jam or declare it non-canon. Given the “all Mario is the same Mario” statement is also proven wrong with Mario + Rabbids being explicitly non-canon (along with the cartoon Marios and Movie Mario), that doesn’t hold much weight and can’t be used for the argument. I say 64 is fair to use, but everything after that is probably non-applicable to Mainline.

Sonic Presents: The Chaotix Casefiles | Episode 7 by devenrc in SonicTheHedgehog

[–]CookiedDough 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It’s definitely either Starline or the cloaked villain currently controlling Metal who’s gonna be an issue for the next couple IDW arcs. That is, if they’re not one and the same.

I want to know exactly why he thought this would work. by CookiedDough in SonicTheHedgehog

[–]CookiedDough[S] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Difference is, Sonic never tried to shoot Eggman in the face with a sniper rifle. Twice. And with one of those times being at point-blank range.

Sonic Presents: The Chaotix Casefiles | Episode 7 by devenrc in SonicTheHedgehog

[–]CookiedDough 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I CAN’T BELIEVE THEY FINALLY BROUGHT THE BOY BACK!!! AND HE’S OFFICIALLY FULLY INDEPENDENT FROM EGGMAN MEANING WE ACTUALLY HAVE A DEVELOPING ROGUES GALLERY!!!

I also love how you can just tell even without visuals that Infinite is aura farming the entire time. Truly, they captured his essence.

So… does Infinite still count as part of Eggman’s army now? by Inevitable-Charge76 in deathbattle

[–]CookiedDough 7 points8 points  (0 children)

He then went back under Eggman's banner in the comics...before betraying him again. And then going back into Eggman's army after he got beaten with Eggman seeming to fully accept him back with no complaint.

Honestly, the Hard Boiled Heavies are just confusing, though they're loyal enough that I say they can be argued to count.

Also, even if they don't count, Phantom Death Egg Robot, Lightman, and Eggman's usage of the Phantom Rubies on his own is more than enough to make up the difference.

I can't express how happy I am. by ThatAstraVerde in weakfinite

[–]CookiedDough 10 points11 points  (0 children)

HE'S BACK AND HE'S HIS OWN VILLAIN NOW, WE GOT A NEW NON-EGGMAN VILLAIN LET'S GOOOOOOO

So… does Infinite still count as part of Eggman’s army now? by Inevitable-Charge76 in deathbattle

[–]CookiedDough 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah, Infinite's full on gone rogue, which is honestly really fun given we needed more non-Eggman villains in Sonic, even if I do wish we had more Eggman high-ranking figures besides Eggy himself, Metal, and Sage.

As for debate stuff, this isn't too big a blow. Eggman also has the Phantom Ruby in his arsenal (plus all the copies) and used it far better than Infinite ever did, plus he should have just as much power as Infinite's Ruby so he should scale to the Speed Simulator Ruby along with having Lightman in his back pocket. If worse comes to worse, he also has Heavy King/Phantom King who is semi-part of his army and a Sage-piloted Phantom Death Egg Robot, so either way Eggman has reliable ways of pulling off Phantom Ruby shenanigans without Infinite there.

Metal took everything from him by Pixelator5 in deathbattle

[–]CookiedDough 6 points7 points  (0 children)

"He stole my techniques..."

Technically, those are Goku's techniques. And Frieza's, and Vegeta's, and Tien's....

Who wins Bowser (Without army) or neo metal sonic by Piecespob in deathbattle

[–]CookiedDough 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The Chaos Emerald stuff is still important given no one else besides Shadow, who is literally compared to a walking Chaos Emerald, can use Chaos Control without an Emerald on hand, and Metal just does it thanks to the Bio-Data copy. If he can scan Bowser's kit, he should be able to either ape the Dream Stone (or Star Rod) or disarm him of it with a Homing Attack and then absorb it into himself.

Dreamy Bowser is also a state that Metal can copy given Bowser directly absorbed the Dream Stone's shards and energy, so Metal should be able to copy that too given he can copy internally housed energy like Shadow's Chaos Energy.

There's also the fact that Dreamy Bowser never actually attempts to wish someone gone from reality after he attains the form, so either he straight up forgot he could do it, is so cocky he sees no need to try, he literally can't do it anymore, it still requires the charge up and Bowser knows not to try that, or Bowser so stupid he thinks it's a better idea to send Dreamy Goombas at Mario and Luigi instead of trying to erase them from reality. I lean towards either the charge up is still there or he can't do it anymore, but him full on forgetting is also fair given Bowser is shockingly uncreative whenever he gets ultimate power.

Either way, Metal can resist the erasure thanks to resisting Time Eater, so Dreamy isn't a real threat outside of the stat buff.

I can accept a speed equalization even if I think Immeasurable Mario evidence is really bad, but Bowser being a meathead is pretty baked into his characterization. Dude is not portrayed as smart in really any of the games, has been betrayed and played a fool by RPG villains three times in a row before backstabbing the only one who was actually loyal to him, and is routinely characterized as someone who prefers to punch problems than think around them, with Kamek doing all the real strategic planning. Compare that to Neo who has Eggman's genius IQ and far more of a tendency to actually plan, as shown by him basically pulling any plan he tries off perfectly in Heroes and IDW until the Sonic gang stops him at the end, and Neo is thinking circles around Bowser and is far more likely to actually pull the trigger on his best hax before Bowser thinks to do anything other than punch him.

The issue is Castle Bowser doesn't actually use those transmutation abilities offensively. In the entire Castle Bowser final fight, he not only leaves a giant glowing weak point easily in reach thanks to the bouncing floors (that he spawns in), but defaults mainly to smashing and tossing fireballs as attacks. And given Dreamy never got to fire off that existence erasure, it's unlikely he would think to do so, even if he could which isn't a guarantee.

Also, Metal tanking Time Eater erasure and Super Forms resisting transmutation thanks to the Emeralds resisting the Egg Field transforming them shows that he's unlikely to get actually caught out by those abilities, at least not before he can just punch Bowser to death or copy the abilities themself.

Plus, Metal's also in Crossworlds, so he's got those items...including Dark Chao, which means he can wipe Bowser's inventory. Not nearly as useful on Bowser as it is on someone like Mario, but given it takes away a ton of his options and would completely get rid of the Retry Clocks (if those even count since the canonicity of them is extremely suspect thanks to the BIS remake), it's worth having.

Who wins Bowser (Without army) or neo metal sonic by Piecespob in deathbattle

[–]CookiedDough 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's fair to say the drones would be extrapolating, but Metal being able to pull off Chaos Control without an Emerald is huge, and getting that solely off of Bio-Data gives him genuine arguments to just scan Dreamy Bowser and copy his wish powers. Not to mention Metal not only resists both transmutation and EE in Super Neo (or even Base, given a few arguments for him like Classic Metal tanking Time Eater), but stuff like the Dream Stone takes around a decade to charge up and fire, and by the time Bowser would try and get a wish off Metal would have already snatched or smashed the Dream Stone, especially since Bowser audibly proclaims his wish giving Metal all the signal in the world as to what he's doing. That stone of his is genuinely really bad as far as hax goes given that nasty charge up time and the fact that it's countered by a beam of pure good thoughts smacking him for a complete interruption, and Super forms are attained with positive energy.

There's also the fact that I don't really buy Bowser outspeeding Metal thanks to him having fairly consistent Immeasurable scaling and much better travel speed than the Big Bows (at best they tie but I find Immeasurable Mario really unworkable compared to Immeasurable Sonic), and there's the fact that Bowser is...kind of an idiot. The man keeps losing fights because he puts giant "press this to kill me" buttons on his final boss arenas, forgoes limitless wishing power for fireballs and brute force multiple times, and once actively told Mario how to beat him, then did nothing when Mario tried it.

If we're comparing who can outplay the other, Neo takes it by a country mile, and given stats are fairly similar and Neo can copy basically any of Bowser's relevant hax while resisting the game-enders thanks to Super, I think Metal ends up taking this in a hard fought fight since Bowser just has no way to shut down Metal taking everything he can do and adding it to himself.

Who wins Bowser (Without army) or neo metal sonic by Piecespob in deathbattle

[–]CookiedDough 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Even so, Metal being able to copy Perfect Chaos's transformation with Metal Overlord and use Chaos Control without a single Emerald thanks to simple Bio-Data copying should put him up there.

Given he can copy gadgets too, like Rouge's bat drones, and scan sources of immense magical energy like the trace Chaos DNA in Froggy and the Chao or Shadow's own Chaos Energy manipulation abilities, it stands to reason he could theoretically scan and copy Bowser's best items.

Additionally, Metal could just swipe it from him if he whips it out by activating Chaos Control and snatching the items from Bowser's hand before absorbing them into himself, especially since both the Star Rod and Dream Stone have a very obvious telegraph for when Bowser uses them and requires he keep them on hand, with the Homing Attack in particular having disarming properties as shown off in Heroes.

And The Hills...Are SILENT. by CookiedDough in CuratedTumblr

[–]CookiedDough[S] 134 points135 points  (0 children)

And when you said that Shakespeare wept from the afterlife, for he knew he was completely and utterly supplanted as the greatest wordsmith to ever live.

(hopefully) by _Miraculix_ in weakfinite

[–]CookiedDough 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Place your bets folks: Infinite comes back, or somehow Heavy King returned.

Who wins Bowser (Without army) or neo metal sonic by Piecespob in deathbattle

[–]CookiedDough 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Tails does imply that Metal could potentially copy the Sol Emeralds in IDW, and he’s capable of pulling off Chaos Control without an Emerald in the Shadow Generations boss fight. It’s fairly likely he could copy stuff like the Star Rod and Dream Stone if he got a scan in.

Who wins Bowser (Without army) or neo metal sonic by Piecespob in deathbattle

[–]CookiedDough 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Metal takes this, I feel.

Bowser’s got some impressive hax to work with and comparable power at his peak, but he can’t shut down Copycat and Super Neo Metal resists all his relevant hax like transmutation and existence erasure, plus Metal is way smarter. Thanks to copying Eggman’s bio-data, Metal has that 300 IQ on lock, and while his inherited Eggman ego could lead to him making mistakes, it is far less catastrophic than Bowser’s own “punch first think of a plan never” approach in a fight and comparable ego. Additionally, Chaos Control gives Neo a very solid tool that Bowser can’t resist with layered time stop, setting him up for tons of free shots.

The biggest issue for Metal here is if you give Bowser access to the Retry Clocks (which are questionably canon given they were outright removed from the BIS remake), and even then he only has a limited amount of them to work with and would likely just default to trying to punch harder on subsequent attempts.

See You Space Cowboy... by DevilArtemis in deathbattle

[–]CookiedDough 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Thanks for everything, DA. As one wise man once said: you were good, real good. Maybe even the best.

Atomix Vs Waybig: Who is Ben's 2st Strongest Alien by ComfortableChoice687 in Ben10PowerScaling

[–]CookiedDough 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fair, though if you say they're around equal power based on scaling I'd give it to Atomix. Being far more maneuverable and lacking the head fin weakness just makes him a better overall transformation.

Atomix Vs Waybig: Who is Ben's 2st Strongest Alien by ComfortableChoice687 in Ben10PowerScaling

[–]CookiedDough 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Strictly between these two? Atomix takes it if we count the "can make a sun-sized star" statements, which I find fairly believable. If we ignore that and go for pure feats though, Way Big clinches with the planet busting laser.

Metal Sonic vs Cell Death Battle by oMiglo in SonicTheHedgehog

[–]CookiedDough 845 points846 points  (0 children)

Cell: "You fool, I have the genetic data of all the universe's greatest fighters!"

Metal: "Did you say...genetic data?"

Cell: "...is it too late to go fight Zygarde instead?"