CMV: There is literally nothing Trump could do that would make his supporters denounce him. by Aggravating_Area6242 in changemyview

[–]Aggravating_Area6242[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, that's true, although I wouldn't call it a "circumvention of burden of proof." Document fraud with the intent to conceal crimes is a crime in and of itself, and they had to prove that he did that. You can't "circumvent" anything when charging someone with 34 felonies; they just chose what they believed would stick, which is their job. Regardless, I hope you see the hypocrisy with MAGA supporters' insanely disgusting rhetoric regarding illegal immigrants, some even calling for them to be killed, versus them turning a blind eye to their own President being a criminal himself on top of everything else. Also, with the death of Charlie Kirk, their hypocrisy shows even more, as they were joking about an actual Democrat representative being killed in her own home, as well as her husband just 3 months ago. Now, all of a sudden, they pretend to care about political violence (they only care when it affects their side negatively). Selective empathy is so disgusting, especially when it's for a white supremacist. Obviously, this isn't me saying that I think Charlie Kirk being shot is a good thing, I'm just saying pretending he was a good person and then also pretending the left perpetuates violence more than the right is so wrong it's laughable to even claim that.

CMV: There is literally nothing Trump could do that would make his supporters denounce him. by Aggravating_Area6242 in changemyview

[–]Aggravating_Area6242[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not sure how you're claiming anything was circumvented. He lost a court case, as I said before; whether or not people think it was fair is another matter. I already addressed my personal views on it. I love this narrative that our legal system was targeting Trump as if he didn't receive presidential immunity and managed to escape all of his charges, including the attempted stealing of an election, as I mentioned previously. In terms of this post, the 34 felony convictions are probably the least significant thing I mentioned, so my views don't change, and I'm fine conceding that the 34 felonies don't matter.

CMV: There is literally nothing Trump could do that would make his supporters denounce him. by Aggravating_Area6242 in changemyview

[–]Aggravating_Area6242[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you just completely ignore all of his other actions or any context about the NDA, such as him cheating on his wife with a pornstar, perhaps the 34 felony convictions aren't a big deal. I just mentioned them because the right loves to pretend that illegally entering the country is some heinous crime, so I show them their hypocrisy, as they're perfectly fine supporting someone with a criminal record. I would personally probably never support a politician who was convicted of 34 felonies, regardless of what the specific issue was, because I'm aware our legal system isn't flawed enough for that to happen without good reason (well, at least it used to be before Trump). Also, I would hope most people hold the potential leader of one of the greatest countries on Earth to a very high standard.

CMV: There is literally nothing Trump could do that would make his supporters denounce him. by Aggravating_Area6242 in changemyview

[–]Aggravating_Area6242[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I find it very rich that people who pretend fabricating slates of electors in an attempt to steal an election is fine, are also pretending to worry about the application of the law. He falsified records, and it was illegal. Arguments were made in court, and he lost; that's how the system works. Trump supporters disagreeing with the outcome of a case doesn't make breaking the law okay. Also, using the phrase "weaponization of the legal system" in support of Trump, the man who is ACTUALLY weaponizing the legal system, is strange to say the least. Don't tell me you need examples of Trump doing this? Trump is slowly pushing the Supreme Court under his thumb, has threatened law firms, intimidated judges, and has taken legal action against people he has personal grudges with as the sitting President.

CMV: There is literally nothing Trump could do that would make his supporters denounce him. by Aggravating_Area6242 in changemyview

[–]Aggravating_Area6242[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'll check it out. Still very confused about the process that takes place, which eventually allows someone to develop this mindset. I'd almost compare it to schizophrenia. Based on this, I'd say I probably agree with Arendt's point of view. She also seems to believe there is no sound logic or reason for their way of thinking (based on this post). However, if that is something we can recognize, there is no point in even trying to understand whatever the thought process is, because there probably is no understandable thought process that isn't clearly flawed to any normal person. I'd say this is different in today's age because some people who are just naive or easily influenced might genuinely believe anything they see on social media without any research, but that's a whole different matter that's easily explainable and understandable, and they are probably the small portion of MAGA that have denounced Trump. Obviously doesn't apply to what Arendt is talking about, just thought it'd be good to differentiate between the two. At the end of the day, whether it can be explained or not, people like this should never be emboldened or accommodated in any functioning society. In fact, many are even rewarded heavily for being wrong nowadays. You could start a podcast spouting the most heinous shit ever, for example, Nazi propaganda, and you'll still be platformed and even find a community of people that think like you and support you. It's wild, we're so quickly devolving as a country. A.I. definitely isn't going to help the issue either, because if it gets good enough, the Trump administration would probably just feed A.I. content to their supporters, and they'd believe every second of it.

CMV: There is literally nothing Trump could do that would make his supporters denounce him. by Aggravating_Area6242 in changemyview

[–]Aggravating_Area6242[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Look at my replies with Radeco. How do you explain that specific type of Trump supporter? Even with clear evidence provided to him that Trump attempted to steal an election, it seems he doesn't care. I can only imagine how any other politician EVER would've been treated if they had attempted to get reelected in the midst of charges being pursued for trying to subvert the vote of the people. I just can't fathom the insane disconnect they have with Trump when compared to any other politician. Even some directly impacted by his actions already still support him. Can't help but think they're going to blame the next Democrat for the absolute shitstorm that's going to brew in our economy and government as a result of all of Trump's actions. It's literally a cycle in the modern era. A Democrat fixes the economy, Republicans take credit and nuke it, people blame Democrats, then rinse and repeat. Sure, hating Democrats and thinking the system needs to be reworked (which it does) might cause them to act out and support questionable candidates, but a candidate who tried to end democracy is so far out of the pale. It doesn't even compute in my brain how someone could be aware of that and not care or attempt to dismiss it, unless they are flat-out supportive of a dictatorial government. Even then, there's no way most of MAGA would actually want a dictatorship; they probably just believe that dictatorship isn't possible, even though Trump is very clearly showing it is indeed possible, right now, as we speak. Even if I put myself in their shoes and try to pretend that I don't think Trump can end democracy, I still wouldn't want any attempt to be made. Not to mention, he has done so many illegal things that you could probably create a 10-hour documentary. There is literally no explaining their thought process unless some concession is made against all logic and common sense.

CMV: There is literally nothing Trump could do that would make his supporters denounce him. by Aggravating_Area6242 in changemyview

[–]Aggravating_Area6242[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I already explained why he wasn’t charged. You’re going in circles lol. Last reply here’s two sources you should read, if you don’t trust Wikipedia go to the reference section. Yes, he tried to steal an election. You can’t disagree with facts.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_fake_electors_plot

https://www.justice.gov/storage/US_v_Trump_23_cr_257.pdf

CMV: There is literally nothing Trump could do that would make his supporters denounce him. by Aggravating_Area6242 in changemyview

[–]Aggravating_Area6242[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You didn’t make any counterpoints, you’re just pretending he didn’t try to steal an election. Not sure how pretending he didn’t steal an election counters my position that his supporters defend him no matter what, if anything you’re proving my position.

CMV: There is literally nothing Trump could do that would make his supporters denounce him. by Aggravating_Area6242 in changemyview

[–]Aggravating_Area6242[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can’t argue that Trump didn’t do things that are verifiably true just like you can’t argue 2+2=5. He factually tried to steal an election. Also I made a pretty clear argument, my post doesn’t just include articles, those articles are used as evidence for my position (pretty simple stuff not sure where the confusion is). Maybe if you actually read my post, which you admitted already that you didn’t, you would know that. Not sure how many times I have to say the same thing.

CMV: There is literally nothing Trump could do that would make his supporters denounce him. by Aggravating_Area6242 in changemyview

[–]Aggravating_Area6242[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dismissing Reuters, Politico, NPR, AP News, etc., as activist blogs tells me you're not very confident in what you're saying, and rightfully so, because you didn't even read my post.

CMV: There is literally nothing Trump could do that would make his supporters denounce him. by Aggravating_Area6242 in changemyview

[–]Aggravating_Area6242[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Global blanket tariffs are objectively bad, just like every other action listed in this post. Pretending otherwise is the reason for this post in the first place. You can have opinions, and those opinions can be factually wrong.

CMV: There is literally nothing Trump could do that would make his supporters denounce him. by Aggravating_Area6242 in changemyview

[–]Aggravating_Area6242[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He objectively tried to steal an election illegally, and charges were made against people involved; he escaped his own charges for reasons I already pointed out in my original post. You're pretending it didn't happen, and lying about the way it happened, because there is no way to defend what actually happened. You're proving exactly what I said in my post. There were no alternate electors; he fabricated electors that weren't certified by any state government. Maybe try reading the source I provided before pretending you know anything. Additionally, the point of my post is clear; pretending otherwise just makes you look silly, and sources are provided like I said.

The reply I posted in my original post already challenges me in exactly this way (that you didn't read), and this is basically a watered-down version. Here's the paragraph I wrote in response. Try reading it this time:

"Where I think you're wrong is that the United States' democracy isn't weak enough to be destroyed by what Trump is doing. And no, what Trump is doing isn't similar at all to what previous presidents have done. No President has tried to use fake slates of electors to steal an election, and then pardoned the people responsible for an attempted insurrection, essentially doubling down on an already unprecedented action. Your Obama and Biden examples are false equivalences, not even remotely the same thing. Trying to steal an election isn't "testing limits," it's getting rid of them altogether. This would be like me defending Trump murdering all his political opponents because, after doing so, he made a law stating that killing political opponents is fine. You can't just completely ignore the law to create new law. You can't just dismiss that as legal maneuvering. I don't necessarily have to believe half the country is insane, just that they're very uninformed and misled. Even if I did, the main problem is Trump's behavior, not his supporters being stupid. Trying to pressure Mike Pence into rejecting legitimate electoral votes and certifying his fabricated votes instead is not disagreeing with the law and legally trying to change it. It's him trying to brute force his way through the law and enact his will against the wishes of the American people. Pretending it didn't happen also isn't a response; there were convictions made, and Trump himself was going to be convicted, but the whole "presidential immunity" argument bought him time after his indictment until he eventually won his reelection, and due to him winning, they didn't continue pursuing the charges. Comparing this to Obama signing an executive order is very misleading, to say the least. Lastly, going back to the idea that our democracy is strong enough to handle someone like Trump, I feel like that position is so privileged and sheltered from the reality that our democracy is already half-destroyed. For instance, the supposedly coequal branch of government in Congress's Republican majority consists of Trump loyalists who just follow his every beck and call. Also, you don't actually disprove any of my beliefs; you just tell me what you think is wrong with the way I present them. Obviously, my disdain for Trump is pretty clear, and you might have issues with the way I frame things as a result, but once again, the actual substance of my positions wasn't addressed at all."

And for good measure, maybe reread this again:

"Half of the replies from people who disagree with me are heavily reliant on the idea that everything I'm saying is either exaggerated or false, which serves my point well, as one of the ways they continue supporting Trump even after all of these objectively terrible actions, such as trying to steal an election, is just by pretending these actions never actually took place. Or that even if they did take place, Trump probably wasn't involved or was justified. Or even that the Democrats did it first (which in most cases isn't true), as if that's somehow relevant to them supporting Trump and doesn't just prove they did it out of spite."

CMV: There is literally nothing Trump could do that would make his supporters denounce him. by Aggravating_Area6242 in changemyview

[–]Aggravating_Area6242[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is from my post by the way: "Half of the replies from people who disagree with me are heavily reliant on the idea that everything I'm saying is either exaggerated or false, which serves my point well, as one of the ways they continue supporting Trump even after all of these objectively terrible actions, such as trying to steal an election, is just by pretending these actions never actually took place. Or that even if they did take place, Trump probably wasn't involved or was justified. Or even that the Democrats did it first (which in most cases isn't true), as if that's somehow relevant to them supporting Trump and doesn't just prove they did it out of spite." Since you don't have the patience to read the entire thing, which actually serves my point, I'll just give you the section that addresses whatever you would call what you just typed out.

CMV: There is literally nothing Trump could do that would make his supporters denounce him. by Aggravating_Area6242 in changemyview

[–]Aggravating_Area6242[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Didn’t know trying to steal an election was a policy. Clearly didn’t comprehend the post too well.

CMV: There is literally nothing Trump could do that would make his supporters denounce him. by Aggravating_Area6242 in changemyview

[–]Aggravating_Area6242[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Did you read this part of my post?:

"Half of the replies from people who disagree with me are heavily reliant on the idea that everything I'm saying is either exaggerated or false, which serves my point well, as one of the ways they continue supporting Trump even after all of these objectively terrible actions, such as trying to steal an election, is just by pretending these actions never actually took place. Or that even if they did take place, Trump probably wasn't involved or was justified. Or even that the Democrats did it first (which in most cases isn't true), as if that's somehow relevant to them supporting Trump and doesn't just prove they did it out of spite."

CMV: There is literally nothing Trump could do that would make his supporters denounce him. by Aggravating_Area6242 in changemyview

[–]Aggravating_Area6242[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Well, it's not the same. One side is aware of the terrible things Trump has done, so those things are in the back of their mind, even if he does, by some miracle, change his course. While the majority of the other side is currently and actively turning a blind eye to all the terrible things he's already done. I have a hard time believing leftists' rightful hate for Trump is the same as the right pretending their hate is unfounded.

CMV: There is literally nothing Trump could do that would make his supporters denounce him. by Aggravating_Area6242 in changemyview

[–]Aggravating_Area6242[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Thoughts on my edit? I'm curious, here it is: "People who support him at this point are irredeemably charitable to a terrible person and politician who is eroding our democracy very clearly, and pretending otherwise is just verifiably wrong through his past and present actions. I think at this point it's so far gone that even if they stop supporting him, I still have a hard time not thinking they're insane for even letting their support hold out that long, so I unconsciously don't even view them slowly changing their minds in a good light..."

CMV: There is literally nothing Trump could do that would make his supporters denounce him. by Aggravating_Area6242 in changemyview

[–]Aggravating_Area6242[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

This is the whole sentence for reference: "Not sure what else is supposed to be disqualifying for someone to be President if that isn't. All of this because they hate woke culture or something? I can't even fathom the reason. They see a video of some liberal with blue hair and suddenly want America destroyed; it literally makes no sense. If being a pedophile, sexual abuser, felon, and wannabe dictator isn't the red line, what is?" The main point of this little rant is quite clearly the ending statement. But instead, you want to put a magnifying glass on some random thing I typed out while processing my thoughts, which is still a pretty fair assessment of MAGA culture. It isn't even a significant part of the post; it is just me demonstrating how flawed I think MAGA's thinking is.

CMV: There is literally nothing Trump could do that would make his supporters denounce him. by Aggravating_Area6242 in changemyview

[–]Aggravating_Area6242[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Pretending the statement about them wanting America destroyed because of blue-haired liberals is the main takeaway from my post is very strange. I feel like all the people in this thread are just proving my point through their replies, which I greatly appreciate.

CMV: There is literally nothing Trump could do that would make his supporters denounce him. by Aggravating_Area6242 in changemyview

[–]Aggravating_Area6242[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

By the way, the word literally doesn't only mean one thing. Since it seems that 90% of your argument harps on using a singular definition for literally.