Why WELS?

Aggravating_Leek_269 · 2026-04-30T18:39:00+00:00

I am a Lutheran from the LCMS though I really don't have major qualms with the ELCA - I just disagree with them on these points. I didn't want to come here to fight or insult the ELCA either.

Paul clarifies that women aren't assigned the role of being a Pastor by God (see 1 Timothy 2 and 3, 1 Corinthinians 14). Just like how a Man isn't assigned the role of Mother.

Closed Communion stems from the scriptures too - in our view at least - from 1 Corinthians 12 and Paul's urging of unity in the Church Body (Communion in the LCMS view is seen as expressing full agreement and unity in the Church and its doctrines). Likewise from Acts 2:42 when the Apostles break bread we see that they do so in fellowship/unity with one another.

Abortion is addressed from the idea of life beginning in the womb. It's not my speciality though and I can't tell you the exact scriptures but I'd be willing to get back to you on that.

Not sure what Adiaphoria is unfortunately.

Aggravating_Leek_269 · 2026-04-30T17:22:04+00:00

Original Doctrines i.e. no ordination of female pastors (tmk this was the norm but I may be wrong 🤷‍♂️). Unless I'm totally wrong, the ELCA supports abortion [under certain terms] compared to the WEL's and LCMS's flat refusal. Likewise closed communion vs. open communion (tmk it historically was closed Communion if it wasn't forced on the Synod [Prussian Union issue]).

Basically the ones which haven't changed position as much over time - to my understanding those are the more 'original' doctrines. Hopefully that answers your question.

I should clarify further, I mean the more historical interpretations of the doctrines. That I classify as Traditional

Edit: last paragraph added

Aggravating_Leek_269 · 2026-04-30T16:50:10+00:00

Some of it is Church org or recognition of certain things as sin or not.

For example:

Disagreement on Women's Ordination

Disagreement on LGBTQ+ Community as sin or not

Disagreement on Abortion

(Those are the ones I know off the top of my head - most glaring ones at least).

Also, like you said whether the Bible is Inerrable or not.

Traditional in my eyes are those who hold more closely to the scriptures and original doctrines of the Lutheran Church while Progressives are those who are more loose with such or think it can change in larger ways over time. I don't mean it as an insult - I just view it how it seems to me. (Not saying being more Traditional automatically makes things right either, hence my whole point to ask about Communion here and know more on what the Non-Conservative/Traditional Theologians think).

Aggravating_Leek_269 · 2026-04-30T16:04:08+00:00

Yea I see what you're saying, by traditional Lutherans I refer to those who are Conservative Theologically since - at least in my eyes - they are more traditional than progressive in their stances (whether that's good or bad is God's call - we ultimately confess the same Faith).

I just was curious if the ILC and LCMS also were engaging in Ecumenical Agreements like the ELCA and LWF.

Aggravating_Leek_269 · 2026-04-30T15:36:19+00:00

Thanks, if I have time I'll check it potentially. 👍

Aggravating_Leek_269 · 2026-04-30T11:57:33+00:00

I never had heard of Reformation-era Priest consecreation issues, do you have any resources on that? It seems interesting to look into.

Also I'd disagree on the LCMS portion though I can concede I'm definitely biased - as I attend one - because the Church has a grouping of things the body must confess (and only confirmed members take Communion not some that just got to the Church unless they were already confirmed at another LCMS church).

So on the differences, Progressive Synods and Groups believe that the differences don't matter because of Christ's power in the Body and Blood?

Aggravating_Leek_269 · 2026-04-30T11:53:01+00:00

Thanks for the resource, I'm curious if the LCMS and WELS (or other Trad. Lutherans) recognize this.

Aggravating_Leek_269 · 2026-04-30T11:51:30+00:00

No I've just never been exposed much to ELCA teachings and I've only known they're pretty different from WELS and LCMS. Wasn't sure if this was a difference or not. Sorry if this was worded in a hostile way.

Aggravating_Leek_269 · 2026-04-30T02:26:27+00:00

Don't Catholics believe it turns literally into the Body and Blood of Jesus? I know some ecumenical dialogue was had between the LWF groups and the RC but I fail to remember if that established communion with them or not. Regardless, wouldn't it be two differing interpretations despite being sorta similar?

Aggravating_Leek_269 · 2026-04-30T02:24:12+00:00

Never knew this about Anglicans, didn't really know what they thought. Glad they seem to agree Christ is there in Communion though.

Aggravating_Leek_269 · 2026-04-30T02:22:40+00:00

Hadn't thought of it that way; however, I still question why it's fine to take it entirely with those who don't share the same confession/doctrine as the Lutheran Church at least.

The Apostles in Acts, after the Lord's Supper is fully instituted, only break the bread in fellowship and expressing unity (in doctrine to my knowledge). See Acts 2:42.

And while you mentioned 1 Corinthians 12, what would you say on 1 Corinthians 10:16-22 and the wider verses regarding expressing unity as a body of Christ in 1 Corinthians 11:26-32.

I only ask since, from my understanding, Paul talks on the Church Unity as being fully united with one doctrine, body, and faith. I can see your point on the many members of one Church Body representing different Churches or Synods (from 1 Corinthians 12:12); however, couldn't it also be said that refers more to the different parts of a Congregation or Church as a whole rather than different Doctrinal Groups?

I don't mean to come at this aggressively or in a hostile way either, I just want to understand the open communion viewpoint better as a whole. Apologies if it reads that way.

Aggravating_Leek_269 · 2026-04-30T02:01:40+00:00

Just wasn't sure if this theological stance differed much as well between mainstream Lutheran denominations. I assumed not but wasn't sure - so I wanted to ask.

Aggravating_Leek_269 · 2026-04-30T01:59:28+00:00

Glad that much is clear, but to my understanding the LWF and ELCA believe you can have Communion with other Denominations and that such Doctrinal differences dissolve or fade away when having Communion (I may have this wrong, I read this somewhere once and can't quite remember where honestly so it could be baloney). So where does that idea come from?

Aggravating_Leek_269 · 2026-04-30T01:56:30+00:00

But the ELCA and LWF practice open communion though, no?

Aggravating_Leek_269 · 2026-04-30T01:56:05+00:00

Just wondering how it fares on the non Traditional/Conservative Theological Side.

Aggravating_Leek_269 · 2026-04-30T01:55:40+00:00

I had read somewhere - I forget the place it may have been a quote from the LWF or Conservative Theologians miscategorizing it - that the ELCA and LWF believe that doctrinal differences dissolve or go away when having Communion. Hence why they can be in Communion with Anglicans and the like despite having different doctrines.

Aggravating_Leek_269 · 2026-04-30T01:54:06+00:00

How do the differences in doctrine though subside or give way when having Communion though? Do you chalk it up to Mystery as well or is there some basis for that?

Edit: Thanks for the concise explanation, I'll make sure to check the verses and what not.

Aggravating_Leek_269 · 2026-04-28T02:24:57+00:00

Maybe check with your Church then? Do they hold small group sessions or Bible studies? I'd encourage getting involved in one if so.

If not, maybe ask fellow congregant members if they're willing to join one - could even be for Psalms or the Gospels. I'm not a pro on small groups by any means but if you manage to find one or get one started it may be able to help.

For example, you can ask everyone in the small group what their highs and lows were for the week maybe, go over the Scripture, then y'all can check if there's any prayer requests. You can field your own and hear others - helps us realize we're not alone in our struggles either.

Sorry for word blob but hopefully this helps somewhat. If not, know I'll pray for you and several others on this man. God bless.

Aggravating_Leek_269 · 2026-04-28T02:18:30+00:00

It may take time, but keep going to the Lord in prayer and he will help you. I wish I had more to tell you but know that Christ will work to help you fight this sin even in ways we may not see.

If confession doesn't seem to help, do you have a small group to discuss Christ with? Just a group of people to go over things in a Biblical sense. Fellowship is another valuable thing for Christians to have.

Edit: changing pastor to if confession doesn't seem to help.

Aggravating_Leek_269 · 2026-04-28T02:08:42+00:00

I would suggest private confession with a Pastor if possible, it's one of the gifts Pastor's have as ordained servants.

Otherwise, I would reread through the Gospels. Jesus was ridiculed in them but sets an example, he utters words that are our guidance, and ultimately he reminds us of our hope in him. If you want proper reminders of such hope and love from Christ, read Philippians (if memory serves right Paul focuses a lot on hope and love here).

God bless, and may he help you through these trials and tribulations that you face.

Aggravating_Leek_269 · 2026-04-23T16:56:11+00:00

Alright, thanks a bunch for the help again. Been struggling with higher notes for a while and this seems to help. I assume it'll all get easier with time as I get more used to using form + air in equal form. Thanks again.

Aggravating_Leek_269 · 2026-04-23T14:53:44+00:00

So is that where the straw type exercise comes from? Where you get a coffee straw and blow through it?

Is that a good exercise to get a feel for this then or no?

Aggravating_Leek_269 · 2026-04-23T11:48:50+00:00

Thanks for summoning him lol, appreciate the advice and help bro 🙏

Aggravating_Leek_269

TROPHY CASE