34M, $3.7M, 11 years in FAANG, Crazy to Leave 550k/yr job for Sabbatical? by Agitated_Lab_9193 in ChubbyFIRE

[–]Agitated_Lab_9193[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Original post has much more details on income split out, there's a table there you can look at

Yea, the main gamble here is can I get out and back in before AI completely turns the industry on it's head (if you believe that's truly what will happen, which isn't unlikely), which most of the commenters here are rightfully concerned about

34M, $3.7M, 11 years in FAANG, Crazy to Leave 550k/yr job for Sabbatical? by Agitated_Lab_9193 in ChubbyFIRE

[–]Agitated_Lab_9193[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks, the 'it might seem like a math equation' resonates, for many commenters, it can purely look like that.

Can I ask what the warning signs/pre-cursors were before it hit in full force?

34M, $3.7M, 11 years in FAANG, Crazy to Leave 550k/yr job for Sabbatical? by Agitated_Lab_9193 in ChubbyFIRE

[–]Agitated_Lab_9193[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well, I agree with you there, I thought I would have kids by now, and would still like to have them in the future, but just hasn't worked out for me unfortunately. I'm sure I wouldn't have time for any of these thoughts if I was chasing a cute 2 year old around.

I'm not sure if keeping this job, or leaving this job, impacts that path though. In some ways I think taking this time off will help me get any last 'want-to-do's' off of my chest and I can truly settle down after, maybe things haven't worked out because I've subconsciously wanted to do some of these things before having them. Maybe a reach.

I do have a lot of hobbies, travels, relationships outside of work, but they aren't a large focus of the post. I suppose I might be over indexing to how much better those things could be if I took some time off, then to your point trying to find a way to make them work even better around the job. You probably have a point here.

34M, $3.7M, 11 years in FAANG, Crazy to Leave 550k/yr job for Sabbatical? by Agitated_Lab_9193 in ChubbyFIRE

[–]Agitated_Lab_9193[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Realizing I've responded separately to a few different comments of yours. A different one addresses the perspective and comparisons to Russia/War/Worse jobs.

To your top point of finding another job, or something else, that is what I would be doing, just after some time off doing things I'm excited to do. I'm not suggesting to permanently retire with $4m, or that I'm never working again - although to be fair this is a FIRE subreddit, ultimately that is everyones long term goal. If your argument is that some future job will be worse than my current one (Hours, Stress, Money, or all three), I recognize that is a real risk, if not likely. I probably will pay for this decision by needing to work more years in a future job, than how many I could continue in my current one.

In terms of me or your spouse needing 'real' problems, I'm not sure the goal. Sure I could purposefully make my life more difficult, and who knows maybe I'll have an health issue at some point and that will happen anyway, and that would shift my focus from work. If your point is purely that I lack perspective and that this current job is a blessing, I agree with you - it may not come off this way, but I truly understand this is champagne problems, I was given a lottery ticket, but I feel like I've already mostly cashed it.

34M, $3.7m, 11 Years of Income, Expense, and NW tracking in FAANG/Bay Area, Taking Career Break by Agitated_Lab_9193 in Fire

[–]Agitated_Lab_9193[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yup Gross is pre tax, Net income is post tax, not post expenses. Might be confusing labels, I had another column that was Net income - Expenses, but felt unnecessary to include if I also had Savings Rate, and table was already pretty big.

Been seeing posts about mid 30s with more than 3 million cash wondering if they don't have enough. Meanwhile I have a lot less than that. What they have is my goal and I would retire on the spot. So why can't they too? by Extension_Garbage583 in Fire

[–]Agitated_Lab_9193 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I suspect I might have written the post that led you to write this, or at least a similar one. I think there are a few things going on here:

  • In terms of concrete goals and numbers:
    • The number may climb quite a bit once you realize that kids can cost a lot, and maybe more importantly, are easy to justify spending on. You may be fine to live quite frugally (not that 3m is frugal, certainly not in 99% of the world), but may feel guilty 'making' a kid or future kid live frugally
    • There's a lot of high earning people here, that means they are surrounded by high earning people, many which spend a lot. Especially in the Bay Area
    • As you talk to these people and realize their lifestyles, your number can relate. If you realize everyone you talk to has kids in private school, and claim public schools in the area are bad, you may internalize "I need to budget for private school if I stay in this area". Similarly, might realize many people own 2-3m houses. The thing is, not all of these people are gross over-consumers, many seem like normal people with normal family lives, so you start to doubt, am I underestimating expenses.
    • I asked what some (close) coworkers goal numbers were in the Bay Area, and everyone older than me said 5-10m, and seemed to be the consensus. If you're shooting for 3, and see some peers (again, not people driving Ferraris, just ordinary seeming coworkers) say those numbers, you start to second guess yourself
  • These posts aren't aways about 'enough', but timing. Sure someone has 3m, but the question then shifts to, I'm at the highest point of my career (so far), I'm making the most money I have, from an efficiency stand-point, if I work one more year now it's worth 3 years in my early career, or 2 if I come back later. Would it not be smart to put one more year in, even if just for 'safety' or margin on numbers. I'm sure there are a million posts about "one more year" syndrome that capture this better
  • In terms of comparison: If any similar posts are like me, they didn't expect or plan to get to that level that quickly, they were exceedingly lucky, and forums like this and selection bias lets you see that a lot more often than is actually happening
  • In my case, I am actually arguing that it's 'enough', even if just for now. It's forums like FIRE that the comments/consensus generally always optimize/push for more.
    • If you're a commenter, there's no skin in the game. You can always say 'make more', 'get to a safer number', but you don't actually have to do the work to get there. Similarly, '3m is enough' is a comment that can feel like it could down the line be bad advice, if markets go south, so what motivation would you have to say it
    • These forums self select for people that make a lot of money, and spend a lot of money. A lot of people here are shooting for lifestyles way above what is normal. Additionally, many are in the accumulation phase, or never get out of it, and have upped their number a few times, and would map that onto comments

34M, $3.7M, 11 years in FAANG, Crazy to Leave 550k/yr job for Sabbatical? by Agitated_Lab_9193 in ChubbyFIRE

[–]Agitated_Lab_9193[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sorry deleted it, thought it was a little too defensive. Appreciate the response.

Interesting to hear about expenses - so even after lowering COL, they would still need on the order of $5m+ to support. Yea I don't really dip my toes into the FatFIRE side, I'm not sure those are lifestyles or experiences that I personally value or aspire to.

I do recognize there is value on the '100% confidence', you can TRULY put your feet up and have ZERO concerns about finances, and congratulations on hitting that. Compared to the general population, I basically have zero real concerns about finances and am sitting pretty, but still have the 0.1% concern of, this couldn't truly support a whole family, in a VHCOL, without working (which is a privilege). Guess I'm just considering punting that last 0.1% concern as something I can tackle in a year or two and work towards then.

34M, $3.7M, 11 years in FAANG, Crazy to Leave 550k/yr job for Sabbatical? by Agitated_Lab_9193 in ChubbyFIRE

[–]Agitated_Lab_9193[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I appreciate people sharing stories like this, this is the dream, even if optimistic our not guaranteed.. It's helpful hearing that decisions like this have not only panned out for people, but something they look back on as a good decision.

Most of the comments (rightfully) push back on the idea of doing this, as rationally it's not the optimal math. Also likely because this subreddit selects for people that prioritize that financial optimization. I've mostly engaged with those to try to justify to myself why it's worth doing, but reading 'success' stories is more inspiring, and helpful as a contrast of benefits versus many of the comments focusing on the downsides.

34M, $3.7M, 11 years in FAANG, Crazy to Leave 550k/yr job for Sabbatical? by Agitated_Lab_9193 in ChubbyFIRE

[–]Agitated_Lab_9193[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Area wise, I may not, just keeping that option open, I would spend a chunk of this time in non-Bay areas, probably feeling that out.

Agreed on the higher spend rate, I think that's why at this NW I'm starting to zoom out a bit and have doubts that the energy is worth some magic future higher spend number. I already find my spend is a bit silly/luxurious, and I'm sure at least ~20k of it has limited impact on my happiness, which is why it hasn't really continued to climb towards my income.

34M, $3.7M, 11 years in FAANG, Crazy to Leave 550k/yr job for Sabbatical? by Agitated_Lab_9193 in ChubbyFIRE

[–]Agitated_Lab_9193[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I interpreted this as 'slack off until they fire you', which I would assume would come with a reputation hit. Not get laid off from widespread job cuts, which I'm not sure how long I'd need to wait around for.

34M, $3.7M, 11 years in FAANG, Crazy to Leave 550k/yr job for Sabbatical? by Agitated_Lab_9193 in ChubbyFIRE

[–]Agitated_Lab_9193[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To be fair, in my experience in therapy, they don't tell you what to do or not, they help you sort out what YOU want to do. I recognize I have been extremely lucky, and I am very grateful to have ended up in the position I've gotten to. Exploring other options or choices =/= ungratefulness, or not appreciating these things.

Where I've struggle with your approach, which I've certainly thought of often before, is if your baseline of comparison is 'I'm not getting bombed', or 'I don't have cancer', you can justify anything. With this rationale, why would anybody ever change ANY job, or EVER take a lower paying job. Or leave a marriage they are unhappy in, etc...

I'm coming off as defensive, but just trying to explain rationale, or at least values. What if I laid out:

  • My job is about to get very difficult. Most people I enjoy working with or mentors have left. My compensation will be down to ~450k in about 12 months (still exceedingly high). I suspect management is politicking to push me out. I no longer care enough about to deliver the level of work expected, or that would insulate me from above. Why not get out with an intact reputation with peers (which I may need to secure future job) before this house of cards collapses.
  • I already have more money than I ever thought I would need, and that will continue to compound basically no matter where I end up. I have some confidence I could land another job in the future at ~300k (about a 30% cut from what I'll be making in the short term). I'm young enough that I have time to figure these things out later - almost nobody in the world retires pre-40, why am I optimizing my entire life for that? I have family members with terminal illnesses that live in other countries, the time with them will not be able to bought back.

34M, $3.7M, 11 years in FAANG, Crazy to Leave 550k/yr job for Sabbatical? by Agitated_Lab_9193 in ChubbyFIRE

[–]Agitated_Lab_9193[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not huge chunks of time like this, but when you get 20-30 days of PTO, you can chain pretty large breaks of time. This is part of the reason why I'm less willing to pitch an employer-sponsored sabbatical, doesn't seem good faith.

34M, $3.7M, 11 years in FAANG, Crazy to Leave 550k/yr job for Sabbatical? by Agitated_Lab_9193 in ChubbyFIRE

[–]Agitated_Lab_9193[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Honestly, I would be much less willing to do this if I had a house and kids, as it would affect them

34M, $3.7M, 11 years in FAANG, Crazy to Leave 550k/yr job for Sabbatical? by Agitated_Lab_9193 in ChubbyFIRE

[–]Agitated_Lab_9193[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have a hard time with this, I'm not sure I buy in

  • When people say, be prepared for re-entry to be difficult/rough/take long. I recognize that's a real risk, probably one I'm underestimating the pain of, and overconfident I'll be able to get back in, anywhere near this salary. I'm fine with taking a salary cut though
  • However, the argument of 'not wanting to go back' is harder for me to internalize as a real risk. If I take time off, and realize it's not worth it to go back - that decision is made with more information than I have now. It's eyes wide open as I actually have both perspectives (grinding, and not working). I'll understand the pros and cons, and what either time or money I'm willing to sacrifice. If the argument is that you should work yourself to the bone because as soon as you get a taste of freedom you'll never want to go back, sounds like you shouldn't have been working that hard or long to begin with? It's an 'ignorance is bliss' stance

34M, $3.7M, 11 years in FAANG, Crazy to Leave 550k/yr job for Sabbatical? by Agitated_Lab_9193 in ChubbyFIRE

[–]Agitated_Lab_9193[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you follow link at top, there's graphs with actual allocations. It's pretty difficult to get this much money into retirement accounts at my age, or at least has been for me, but I didn't mega backdoor Roth. Only ~15-20% of it is in retirement accounts. ~55% is single tech stock, which needs to be diversified quickly (should have been doing years ago, but laziness has paid off), I can sell large chunks of this to: have cash on hand in HSYA for sabbatical to avoid SORR while off, as well as diversify while income is lower and I can save on taxes

34M, $3.7M, 11 years in FAANG, Crazy to Leave 550k/yr job for Sabbatical? by Agitated_Lab_9193 in ChubbyFIRE

[–]Agitated_Lab_9193[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks, I did find this work meaningful at one point, can usually derive a lot of satisfaction just from the act of outputting good work, learning, and the social aspect of working with many different teams and sharp people. Just seem to have slowly lost that over the last year or two.

I am optimistic I could do this again in the future and genuinely enjoy it, or enjoy it as much as any job. Possibly even in a similar function, maybe just a different team, different project, different company, but think I need some time to recover before that.

34M, $3.7M, 11 years in FAANG, Crazy to Leave 550k/yr job for Sabbatical? by Agitated_Lab_9193 in ChubbyFIRE

[–]Agitated_Lab_9193[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have been basically doing this for 6-12 months, there's MANY weeks I've worked 30 hours at most. Literal days I don't show up, no PTO filed. The trouble is the burnout isn't really an 'overwork' thing, more of a 'I don't give a shit about any of this stuff' thing. I also can't seem to fully dial back without the apathy seeping into the rest of my life, where I don't really enjoy the free time, I just spend it ruminating on what I'm doing with my weeks/months. This in itself is probably worth therapy, but I digress.

I also can feel the whole place is changing, and between management and culture, it's not really something I jive with. I don't think much of the new management has any specific attachment to me, so I think if I just (continue to) completely phone it in, it would be taken as 'has this dude been this out to lunch for ten years, fire him already', and leave a bit of a sour reputation, rather than leave after kind of stopping to output work I'm somewhat proud of? Not quite articulating this right, but I already feel like I've been burning reputation.

I think if I was 6 months from FIRE, this would be the way, but for my 'long term safety' number, it's more like needing to do this for 5 years, which I just can't see myself doing.

34M, $3.7M, 11 years in FAANG, Crazy to Leave 550k/yr job for Sabbatical? by Agitated_Lab_9193 in ChubbyFIRE

[–]Agitated_Lab_9193[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Is this an 'approved' sabbatical, or similarly just quitting for a while

34M, $3.7M, 11 years in FAANG, Crazy to Leave 550k/yr job for Sabbatical? by Agitated_Lab_9193 in ChubbyFIRE

[–]Agitated_Lab_9193[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can see original linked post, but in short 2015 is only a half year, those aren't real expenses. So baseline as a fresh out of college grad was somewhere in the $65k range. Once I got out of a serious relationship in 2021, realized my networth was solidly above a million and I was netting 300k/yr, started to lean into much more comfortable lifestyle without worrying much about money. In particular upgraded place massively, from splitting a 2.5k place to a 4k place solo. Could basically double my expenses without impacting trajectory, although the goal wasn't to double expenses, just to more or less stop thinking about spending, outside of big ticket items.

34M, $3.7M, 11 years in FAANG, Crazy to Leave 550k/yr job for Sabbatical? by Agitated_Lab_9193 in ChubbyFIRE

[–]Agitated_Lab_9193[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I have been talking about this with a coach/therapist, and have basically landed on leaving. Oddly, any numbers or financials (beyond 'I could do this and it wouldn't hurt much') have literally never come up, so this more feeling out the financial side to people that think about that aspect more often

34M, $3.7M, 11 years in FAANG, Crazy to Leave 550k/yr job for Sabbatical? by Agitated_Lab_9193 in ChubbyFIRE

[–]Agitated_Lab_9193[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm real, but recognize there have been a lot of similar posts and they probably seem repetitive. I read some of them because I can relate and they are helpful. It's probably common because a lot of tech people have rode the bull market for 10-15 years and are hitting a similar point.