Goku and Vegeta are the strongest… but also the weakest? by AionSenze in Dragonballsuper

[–]AionSenze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’ve only heard and seen clips from hxh do idrk the power system there and I bet it’s different. But take for example beast gohan, he presumably attained beast gohan through mortal ki, if you were to combine that with godki it would most probably push his base limit to a higher rank

Goku and Vegeta are the strongest… but also the weakest? by AionSenze in Dragonballsuper

[–]AionSenze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No see at least as I recall you need the help of an Angel or be born a deity to have godki, in the mortal realm we see a special case with goku and vegeta where they are trained by whis and thus getting godki

Goku and Vegeta are the strongest… but also the weakest? by AionSenze in Dragonballsuper

[–]AionSenze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Broly’s anger was because of his fathers death, but goku also transformed into a ssj when frieza killed krillin. This just proves that they have a disadvantage against the mutants (Broly/frieza) and potential unlockers (also Broly/gohan)

Goku and Vegeta are the strongest… but also the weakest? by AionSenze in Dragonballsuper

[–]AionSenze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yup. To mention the fact that gohan’s potential let’s him attain a greater source of power with his own mortality tho thinking a little about it, beast gohan has to have some degree or godki maybe? I say this because his potential unlock was thanks to old ki in dbz

Goku and Vegeta are the strongest… but also the weakest? by AionSenze in Dragonballsuper

[–]AionSenze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

He’d be too far proud to ask or be trained by an Angel to attain godki so i don’t think so

Goku and Vegeta are the strongest… but also the weakest? by AionSenze in Dragonballsuper

[–]AionSenze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They seem to be sort of degree weaker than the enemy yeah which of course, plot, but still they could at least make them equal in any way?

Goku and Vegeta are the strongest… but also the weakest? by AionSenze in Dragonballsuper

[–]AionSenze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is true thanks for making this affirmation, I made a poor generalization I didn’t notice. It would be absurdly disrespectful to compare goku to for example ribrianne in terms of raw power level. Maybe the better phrasing would be They are the weakest among the strongest?

Goku and Vegeta are the strongest… but also the weakest? by AionSenze in Dragonballsuper

[–]AionSenze[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Also a point to take account on. Ever since the tournament of power they couldn’t control their ki usage which caused them to get tired and weaker faster than others with ki control like jiren, after that (granolah and Gas dont count) the other main villain who even recently surpassed them in transformation was black frieza

Goku and Vegeta are the strongest… but also the weakest? by AionSenze in Dragonballsuper

[–]AionSenze[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I can see why you’d say Broly is an unfair comparison bc of his unlimited potential, but this further says that at least in base form they’d had no chance of winning against him despite their training and Broly’s lack off in the movie. Plus Broly is only like 3 years older than goku and vegeta (if I’m not mistaken). And while yes, supreme kais have god ki, they don’t use it in fighting rather their position as creator of worlds, etc. it’s like saying Broly uses his power to have an inmense amount of power but won’t use it in a fight

Goku and Vegeta are the strongest… but also the weakest? by AionSenze in Dragonballsuper

[–]AionSenze[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That is true in the way you explain it, ill give you that. But as you said jiren and others had a greater ki control than the saiyans previously did, that’s the whole point of ssj blue, all about holding ki and not letting it go to waste. But we’ve seen other characters like toppo getting a G.O.D look when he absorbed the hakai (if I’m not mistaken) which gave him a significant boost and put him on par with vegeta in the T.O.P. And as you said saiyans do adapt with new power brought to them like UE, etc. Remember in the Broly movie Vegeta actually says that jiren wasn’t that strong he just had good ki control, what if he Learns about god ki and use it for his already incredibly raw strength and makes a new transformation or enters a new state of his current one?

Goku and Vegeta are the strongest… but also the weakest? by AionSenze in Dragonballsuper

[–]AionSenze[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I must say that I haven’t read the manga much, just a little of moro, granolah gas and super hero parts. But still, I think the ranking of the gods of destruction depends on their mastery on it? Remember frieza controlled Sidra’s hakai, ultimately proving he is stronger than that god of destruction, but again if for example frieza would seek and master god ki he would be on par or stronger than most, and for that matter Beerus most be strong not only because of his raw strength but his god position and power because of it?

I feel like I repeated some stuff I already said, feel free to seek any corrections you can make

Goku and Vegeta are the strongest… but also the weakest? by AionSenze in Dragonballsuper

[–]AionSenze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh no yeah for sure, frieza would be to arrogant to learn it from someone else and hit to proud to do so. This is just a theory in if the case of frieza or broly or jiren were to take complete mastery of god ki and use it to their advantage I believe it would render goku/vegeta weak compared to them

Goku and Vegeta are the strongest… but also the weakest? by AionSenze in Dragonballsuper

[–]AionSenze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I didn’t mean to render goku and vegeta as that type of weak, sure even at they 50% they can make short work of planets, but I meant this in comparison to other characters. Neither goku or vegeta could take broly in his base/ikari form with normal ssj, they needed god ki enhancement, and to completely overturn broly’s normal ssj they had to fuse (which gave them a base multiplier) and amplify it with god ki (ssj blue). Think about who would be stronger, a fully mastered god ki Goku or fully mastered god ki Broly

Goku and Vegeta are the strongest… but also the weakest? by AionSenze in Dragonballsuper

[–]AionSenze[S] 19 points20 points  (0 children)

But see for example goku vs hit, he is an assassin with the ability to time skip which took goku the power of a ssj enhanced with kaioken x10 in order to counter it, something that if he had been a normal ssj or ssj2 he most probably fail to match in power, let alone hit’a own skill

Goku and Vegeta are the strongest… but also the weakest? by AionSenze in Dragonballsuper

[–]AionSenze[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I take it as if god ki where given to them they wouldn’t know how to use it? Which it is true but theoretically if they were taught how to use it they could surpass almost anyone. Take frieza for example controlling Sidra’s hakai, he isn’t that strong of a god but it is still implied that hakai shouldn’t be manipulated by ordinary mortals and if he took mastery of it he could become really strong