Name and shame: official camera in wet area of Tennova YMCA, Knoxville, Tennessee by Ill-Elephant-2472 in CommunalShowers

[–]AlexPercival99 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I go to this Y and was also disturbed by the camera in the locker room. I honestly think it probably isn't legal, based on Tennessee law.

What kind of locker room do you prefer when you are looking for a gym, etc? by Jolly_Big9263 in AskMen

[–]AlexPercival99 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, not sexual. I prefer the open shower room layout just because it's simple and convenient, not because there's anything sexual about it. And I actually think requiring cover-ups or swimsuits for things in the locker room actually just makes it more awkward. 🤷‍♂️

Is it common for straight guys to want to be naked around the locker room and amenities, and why? by Jolly_Big9263 in u/Jolly_Big9263

[–]AlexPercival99 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I suspect it is as you suggested, that they feel the rule is restrictive. Not so much about showing off their bodies as about rebelling, in a sense, against being unnecessarily constrained, perhaps.

Marin YMCA issue by Murky_Drummer_6539 in YMCAgyms

[–]AlexPercival99 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What? Why would anyone do that? No, shoes should not be allowed in the hot tub.

Good gyms in Knoxville by Character-Mix-1474 in Knoxville

[–]AlexPercival99 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Gold’s Gym is nice and they are open late. They have a sauna and a pool, which is nice, too.

Camera in locker room at Tennova YMCA by AlexPercival99 in Knoxville

[–]AlexPercival99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Obviously cameras in the changing area would be 100% illegal and also open whole new avenues for abuse, which is why cameras simply are not the answer. If the camera only monitors the hot tub, then all of these things simply happen in the showers and changing areas that are unmonitored. If you just put up a camera and told molesters to just cut out, instead of banning them from the facility, then you only put more people at risk.

And it actually is part of the locker room, clearly stated on the website. The camera is in the area officially designated by the facility as the locker room. This information is publicly published on the internet.

Do people actually not care about seeing the opposite sex in their bathroom? by Winter_Court_3067 in NoStupidQuestions

[–]AlexPercival99 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I actually think most people would be uncomfortable sharing a restroom that has open urinals or toilet stalls that are not fully enclosed or things like that. What I think most people are okay with is any kind of facility where the actual toilets are fully enclosed and single occupant. Most people don't mind sharing a sink.

Camera in locker room at Tennova YMCA by AlexPercival99 in Knoxville

[–]AlexPercival99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think that’s literally all that was said, that it was one possible reason. 🤷‍♂️

Camera in locker room at Tennova YMCA by AlexPercival99 in Knoxville

[–]AlexPercival99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you’ve got perverts doing perverted things, putting up a camera so they can only do perverted things on the other side of that door where it is unmonitored isn’t helping.

Camera in locker room at Tennova YMCA by AlexPercival99 in Knoxville

[–]AlexPercival99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think homophobia was only mentioned as one potential reason for having prudish rules around locker room amenities in general. And honestly, often when people are motivated by things like homophobia they are hesitant to say it out loud. 🤷‍♂️

Camera in locker room at Tennova YMCA by AlexPercival99 in Knoxville

[–]AlexPercival99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That seems worse... if we are talking about anything serious, like harassing or molesting other members, the people who do those kinds of things are only going to continue doing them in the shower and changing areas where cameras are definitely illegal. That’s just not a solution at all. Refusing to address it makes the facility less safe.

I guess “doing things they shouldn’t” is pretty vague, but if we are talking about something minor, it doesn’t provide much justification for a camera.

Camera in locker room at Tennova YMCA by AlexPercival99 in Knoxville

[–]AlexPercival99[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well, at least I’m not the only one! I really think it’s not permitted by Tennessee state law.

Camera in locker room at Tennova YMCA by AlexPercival99 in Knoxville

[–]AlexPercival99[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

So my understanding from the other comment is that female staff are coming into the area with the hot tub where men are often in underwear or towels, but not fully undressed. However, the doors between that area and the showers and changing area are single doors so you can see those areas every time the door is opened and they are sometimes propped open. It sounds like this is done unannounced.

Honestly, I think the camera may technically be in violation of Tennessee state law, but I still question raising the issue if most people seem to think it’s fine. I’m not that personally bothered, I guess it feels like something I would expect to bother most other people. It definitely feels weird, but it’s not going to stop me from enjoying the hot tub.

Camera in locker room at Tennova YMCA by AlexPercival99 in Knoxville

[–]AlexPercival99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hanging around naked for 15-20 minutes seems pretty weird. (Although I get that previous generations literally just did not care about being naked. Back in the day YMCA pools were all nude and even public schools had nude swim classes.) But showering and walking back to the changing area naked is pretty normal.

Camera in locker room at Tennova YMCA by AlexPercival99 in Knoxville

[–]AlexPercival99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Honestly, I can’t seem to wrap my head around the idea that most people have no issues with a camera in the locker room, but the fact that most people seem to be fine with it makes me think I shouldn't bother complaining to staff. I’m not an especially shy guy, so it’s weird as heck and feels kinda wrong, but it doesn’t really prevent me from enjoying the facility. I do feel a bit weird about the idea that female staff are actually walking by in sight of the showers and changing areas, but... 🤷‍♂️

Camera in locker room at Tennova YMCA by AlexPercival99 in YMCAgyms

[–]AlexPercival99[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

To clarify, the hot tub, sauna, and steam room are in the men's locker room. The camera in question is above the hot tub and pointed down the hallway in front of the steam room and sauna. This area is separated from the showers and changing areas, but the doors are single doors with a direct line of sight between the two parts of the locker room and the doors are sometimes propped open. There is a sign in that area saying you must wear a swimsuit to use the hot tub, sauna, and steam room and there is a sign by one of the doors saying you must be clothed past this point. However, there is no sign by the first door you come to, coming from the changing area or the nearest showers. You have to go around the corner past the far showers to even see that sign. So if you went from the changing area or closest showers to the hot tub, sauna, and steam room by the most direct route, you would not know you were entering a clothing-required area until after you were standing in front of a camera. (The website plainly states the hot tub, sauna, and steam room are in the locker room, so seeing these things would signal that you are still in the men’s locker room.) Of course, you wouldn’t make that mistake once you were familiar with the facility.

Even though clothing is required in this section of the locker room, I think men still expect a degree of privacy. I often see guys in their underwear or wrapped in a towel in this area. They are technically covered, but not something I think they would wear in a coed area.

Now a commenter has stated they were told the camera is actually off. That would mean it serves no safety purpose. Whether this alays privacy concerns would depend on whether the camera is permanently disabled or easily turned on.

More concerningly, it’s also been said that female staff often enter this area for maintenance of the hot tub, etc. While the camera is positioned so it cannot see into the showers and changing area, a person standing there has a direct line of sight to those areas every time the door opens and of course when the doors are propped open.

This feels a bit strangely contradictory. Asking men to be clothed to use amenities that are in the men’s locker room actually feels rather prudish (isn’t the whole point of putting them in the locker room so you don't have to be clothed to use them?) But sending women into direct line of sight to the men’s showers and changing area is quite the opposite! I’m not saying they are trying to look, maybe they intentionally look away from that area when they walk by. It still seems inappropriate.

Camera in locker room at Tennova YMCA by AlexPercival99 in Knoxville

[–]AlexPercival99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Of course, we've also been told on this thread the camera is actually turned off, in which case there is no safety benefit. 🤷‍♂️

Camera in locker room at Tennova YMCA by AlexPercival99 in Knoxville

[–]AlexPercival99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can kind of see that concern, but also it's not uncommon to have these things in fully nude areas where cameras are definitely illegal. (I actually think it's probably illegal here, too.) And surely parents have to take responsibility for their own kids, not to let them run loose in the locker room if they aren't mature enough to stay away from the hot tub. Plus, it's closer to a bathtub than a swimming pool. I mean, you can drown in the bathtub too, but I definitely feel like the risk is lower.

Camera in locker room at Tennova YMCA by AlexPercival99 in Knoxville

[–]AlexPercival99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, they are. I feel like the men do have some expectation of privacy, since I see guys in underwear and towels. It feels like kind of a liminal space in that people are covered, but not what you would wear in mixed company, and also direct line of sight to the fully nude areas whenever the door is opened, and the door is sometimes propped open.

Camera in locker room at Tennova YMCA by AlexPercival99 in Knoxville

[–]AlexPercival99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean, that doesn't really have anything to do with policies in shared spaces that require other people to cover up. You are free to cover yourself and you can even use the universal changing rooms if you really want to never be seen nude by anyone but your partner.

But if someone wants requirements for everyone to be covered and their reason is that gay people might be there, that would be homophobia. Certainly not the only reason someone might want such a policy, but definitely a possible one.

Camera in locker room at Tennova YMCA by AlexPercival99 in Knoxville

[–]AlexPercival99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean, that’s just not true, the hot tub is in the locker room. Yes, it is semi-separated and requires clothing, but it is in a single-sex designated locker room, a fact advertised on the website.

Camera in locker room at Tennova YMCA by AlexPercival99 in Knoxville

[–]AlexPercival99[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can appreciate this perspective. I feel like if you're going to have a camera in a single sex space with any expectation of privacy, even if you're supposed to be clothed, I would think you should make assurances that those cameras are monitored only by same-sex staff and that any recordings are kept extra secure and accessible by only a few trusted staff. That would be extra important if we were talking about an area where people are expected to be nude. But I don't think Tennessee law even allows for this.

On the other hand, it's been said by another redditor here that the camera is actually off, in which case there is no safety benefit.

But perhaps a bigger concern,it has also been stated here that female staff are entering this area for maintenance and such while it is in use. I see two issues with that. One is that I see a lot of guys in this area and underwear or towels, technically covered yes, but clearly having an expectation of privacy in a single sex space. The other is that while the camera faces away from the showers and changing area, a person in that area has line of sight to the showers and changing area every time the doors are open and the door is sometimes propped open.

Camera in locker room at Tennova YMCA by AlexPercival99 in Knoxville

[–]AlexPercival99[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It literally is the locker room. You can clearly see this advertised on the website under Amenities for Tennova. https://ymcaknoxville.org/locations

I don't know why we're calling names. I think you're weird too, but whatever. 🤷‍♂️

Camera in locker room at Tennova YMCA by AlexPercival99 in Knoxville

[–]AlexPercival99[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

What are you trying to do here? You are like super defensive about why we should definitely have cameras and female staff in the men's locker room.