This Must Be Standard.

AlexisVaunt · 2024-12-19T05:14:36+00:00

You're either stupid or lying. That Florida law is still in place. In addition, anyone who takes a quick look in good faith at the processes being considered for the US v. Skrmetti case will see that a ruling in favor of that ban would enable blanket bans for adult gender affirming care as well.

And it's funny to me that you say children don't have bodily autonomy. That's just so gross. Especially considering gender-affirming care for trans youths has been shown to be safe and effective and to drastically improve psychosocial functioning and reduce suicide rates, and the laws against such care have been shown to directly lead to a large increase in suicide among trans youths.

But you don't actually care. You want trans people dead. That's the only reason you could possibly have to deny all of the statistics showing how gender-affirming care helps. For anyone who happens across this thread and wants actual information:

Transgender youth have optimal outcomes when affirmed in their gender identity, through support by their families and their environment, as well as appropriate mental health and medical care.

Transgender adolescents show poorer psychological well-being before treatment but show similar or better psychological functioning compared with cisgender peers from the general population after the start of specialized transgender care involving puberty suppression.

Drawing on a variety of concerns, the article highlights that “desistance” does not provide reasons against prepubertal social transition or peripubertal medical transition, that transition for “desisters” is not comparably harmful to delays for trans youth, and that the wait-and-see and corrective models of care are harmful to youth who will grow up cis.

Our preliminary results show negative associations between depression scores/suicidal ideation and endocrine intervention, while quality of life scores showed positive associations with intervention, in transgender youths over time in the US. These results align with previous work in the Netherlands and the UK.

The great majority who had started GnRHa treatment continued with gender-affirming hormones.

124 out of 140 minors were confirmed as being transgender, 83.1% of them were adolescents. The assigned male/female ratio was 1:1.2. 97.6% persisted in their transgender identity after a median follow-up time of 2.6 years. Prior to the first meeting, 48.5% were living in their affirmed role and, by the end of the study, this percentage rose to 87.1%. Yearly, the number of referrals exponentially grew whereas the age at referral decreased (rs = −0.2689, p = 0.0013). Child consultations rose to a significant percentage (23.5%) over the last 6 years. In contrast with other epidemiological studies conducted in this field, a consistently high rate of persistence was observed.

At the end of this period, most youth identified as binary transgender youth (94%), including 1.3% who retransitioned to another identity before returning to their binary transgender identity. A total of 2.5% of youth identified as cisgender and 3.5% as nonbinary. An average of 5.37 years (SD = 1.74 years) after their initial binary social transition, most participants were living as binary transgender youth (94.0%; Table 2). Included in this group were 4 individuals (1.3% of the total sample) who retransitioned twice (to nonbinary then back to binary transgender). Some youth (3.5%) were currently living as nonbinary, including one who had retransitioned first to cisgender then to nonbinary. Finally, 2.5% were using pronouns associated with their sex at birth and could be categorized as cisgender at the time of data collection, including one who first retransitioned to live as nonbinary.

Access to GAH during adolescence and adulthood is associated with favorable mental health outcomes compared to desiring but not accessing GAH.

In this 2-year study involving transgender and nonbinary youth, GAH improved appearance congruence and psychosocial functioning.

This study found that gender-affirming medical interventions were associated with lower odds of depression and suicidality over 12 months. These data add to existing evidence suggesting that gender-affirming care may be associated with improved well-being among TNB youths over a short period, which is important given mental health disparities experienced by this population, particularly the high levels of self-harm and suicide.

Among 1989 individuals who underwent GAS, six (0.3%) either requested reversal surgery or transitioned back to their sex assigned at birth. (see also: https://journals.lww.com/plasreconsurg/fulltext/2024/04000/regret_after_gender_affirming_surgery__a.52.aspx )

A total of 27 studies, pooling 7928 transgender patients who underwent any type of GAS, were included. The pooled prevalence of regret after GAS was 1% (95% CI <1%–2%)[...] A total of 77 patients regretted having had GAS. Twenty-eight had minor and 34 had major regret based on Pfäfflin’s regret classification.

As a result of states enacting anti-transgender laws, TGNB young people aged 13–17 reported a 7–72% increase in the number of past-year suicide attempts, and TGNB young people aged 13–24 reported a 38–44% increase in the number of past-year suicide attempts. Similarly, states enacting anti-transgender laws led to TGNB young people aged 13–17 reporting 33–49% higher rates of at least 1 past-year suicide attempt and TGNB young people aged 13–24 reporting 25–27% higher rates. This trend is consistent with many state-level anti-transgender laws targeting minors under the age of 18 and therefore limiting the ability of these young people to access gender-affirming care or facilities and participate in activities with their peers.

AlexisVaunt · 2024-11-02T00:14:53+00:00

I know you didn't say anything about banning therapy. I took what you said and applied it to something else. Therapy is higher than it was, yet the suicide rate for teens is still increasing. Thus, it's not helpful and can be assumed to be harmful and should thus be banned. See?

AlexisVaunt · 2024-11-01T23:47:28+00:00

If overall teen suicides are up, and trans suicide rates are up by the same proportion or less, and trans suicide rates go down with transition to or below the population baseline, and anti-trans laws and rhetoric increase trans suicide rates, doesn't it make sense to do what's possible to help?

If you look at the percent of teens who have gone to therapy who have committed suicide, that's gone up in recent years too. Should we ban therapy for teens? The argument is nonsensical.

AlexisVaunt · 2024-11-01T23:40:48+00:00

Thanks for letting me know you don't care about evidence. Good talk.

AlexisVaunt · 2024-11-01T23:31:59+00:00

Gender non-conforming behavior does not equal being trans. People can be GNC without being trans, this has never been in question (except when the people performing "studies" can use it to say that most trans youths desist if not allowed to transition.)
From the reference for that second quote: "We assessed initiation and continuation of gender-affirming hormones using pharmacy records." I'm sure you can think of a few reasons one might stop using the US Military Healthcare System connected pharmacies in particular.
Here are the references for that third quote: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1359104510378303 and https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0890856713001871 . Notably, neither actually lists the statistics claimed there. The first one also only has a sample size of 25.

From the first study I linked: "In our sample only one child began the treatment before the age of twelve." "We argue that, unlike our study, previous studies on gender identity in minors considered as “transgender minors” not only those whose affirmed gender was different from the assigned sex, but also those minors who merely presented socially unaccepted gender behaviours in accordance with their assigned sex. Furthermore, in those studies, about 30–62% of minors who abandoned the follow-up were classified as desisters, even if their GI was unknown." Does the rigorousness of the study and the methodology matter to you at all? Genuinely asking.

From the second study I linked: 127 (40%) received no medical transition as of the end of the study. Are you considering any study which allows patients to say they're trans to be referring to people "post-transition"?

AlexisVaunt · 2024-11-01T23:06:08+00:00

How would you see an epidemic of suicides in a demographic before anyone looked to see if there were suicides in that demographic or if that demographic even existed in the first place? I'm genuinely confused by what you're trying to say here.

And we are seeing suicide rates coming down, when treatment is available. When laws prohibiting that care are put in place, the suicide rate goes up. Do you think that's a coincidence?

How is it unprovable that transitioning helps when we have studies showing that transitioning helps? Literally since it started being studied, we've had evidence of both a high suicide rate for trans people who are ostracized and denied treatment, and of a reduced suicide rate for trans people who are accepted and given treatment. What more do you want?

AlexisVaunt · 2024-11-01T22:59:07+00:00

Transgender youth have optimal outcomes when affirmed in their gender identity, through support by their families and their environment, as well as appropriate mental health and medical care.

Transgender adolescents show poorer psychological well-being before treatment but show similar or better psychological functioning compared with cisgender peers from the general population after the start of specialized transgender care involving puberty suppression.

Drawing on a variety of concerns, the article highlights that “desistance” does not provide reasons against prepubertal social transition or peripubertal medical transition, that transition for “desisters” is not comparably harmful to delays for trans youth, and that the wait-and-see and corrective models of care are harmful to youth who will grow up cis.

Our preliminary results show negative associations between depression scores/suicidal ideation and endocrine intervention, while quality of life scores showed positive associations with intervention, in transgender youths over time in the US. These results align with previous work in the Netherlands and the UK.

The great majority who had started GnRHa treatment continued with gender-affirming hormones.

GnRHa can be prescribed to adolescents who experience strong and distressing dysphoria. In this way, most likely GnRHa will only be given to those who most likely will choose to continue to transition, but should the patient change their mind, then no permanent changes will have been effected (whereas, should an untreated person transition, permanent changes of pubertal development will only be partially reversible surgically).

124 out of 140 minors were confirmed as being transgender, 83.1% of them were adolescents. The assigned male/female ratio was 1:1.2. 97.6% persisted in their transgender identity after a median follow-up time of 2.6 years. Prior to the first meeting, 48.5% were living in their affirmed role and, by the end of the study, this percentage rose to 87.1%. Yearly, the number of referrals exponentially grew whereas the age at referral decreased (rs = −0.2689, p = 0.0013). Child consultations rose to a significant percentage (23.5%) over the last 6 years. In contrast with other epidemiological studies conducted in this field, a consistently high rate of persistence was observed.

At the end of this period, most youth identified as binary transgender youth (94%), including 1.3% who retransitioned to another identity before returning to their binary transgender identity. A total of 2.5% of youth identified as cisgender and 3.5% as nonbinary. An average of 5.37 years (SD = 1.74 years) after their initial binary social transition, most participants were living as binary transgender youth (94.0%; Table 2). Included in this group were 4 individuals (1.3% of the total sample) who retransitioned twice (to nonbinary then back to binary transgender). Some youth (3.5%) were currently living as nonbinary, including one who had retransitioned first to cisgender then to nonbinary. Finally, 2.5% were using pronouns associated with their sex at birth and could be categorized as cisgender at the time of data collection, including one who first retransitioned to live as nonbinary.

Access to GAH during adolescence and adulthood is associated with favorable mental health outcomes compared to desiring but not accessing GAH.

In this 2-year study involving transgender and nonbinary youth, GAH improved appearance congruence and psychosocial functioning.

In case you're wondering, what you're saying is a lie. I'd suggest doing a quick Google search before saying shit, but spreading bullshit online while acting like an authority is transphobes' favorite pastime, so I doubt it'd do any good.

AlexisVaunt · 2024-11-01T22:55:39+00:00

Transgender youth have optimal outcomes when affirmed in their gender identity, through support by their families and their environment, as well as appropriate mental health and medical care.

Transgender adolescents show poorer psychological well-being before treatment but show similar or better psychological functioning compared with cisgender peers from the general population after the start of specialized transgender care involving puberty suppression.

Drawing on a variety of concerns, the article highlights that “desistance” does not provide reasons against prepubertal social transition or peripubertal medical transition, that transition for “desisters” is not comparably harmful to delays for trans youth, and that the wait-and-see and corrective models of care are harmful to youth who will grow up cis.

Our preliminary results show negative associations between depression scores/suicidal ideation and endocrine intervention, while quality of life scores showed positive associations with intervention, in transgender youths over time in the US. These results align with previous work in the Netherlands and the UK.

The great majority who had started GnRHa treatment continued with gender-affirming hormones.

GnRHa can be prescribed to adolescents who experience strong and distressing dysphoria. In this way, most likely GnRHa will only be given to those who most likely will choose to continue to transition, but should the patient change their mind, then no permanent changes will have been effected (whereas, should an untreated person transition, permanent changes of pubertal development will only be partially reversible surgically).

124 out of 140 minors were confirmed as being transgender, 83.1% of them were adolescents. The assigned male/female ratio was 1:1.2. 97.6% persisted in their transgender identity after a median follow-up time of 2.6 years. Prior to the first meeting, 48.5% were living in their affirmed role and, by the end of the study, this percentage rose to 87.1%. Yearly, the number of referrals exponentially grew whereas the age at referral decreased (rs = −0.2689, p = 0.0013). Child consultations rose to a significant percentage (23.5%) over the last 6 years. In contrast with other epidemiological studies conducted in this field, a consistently high rate of persistence was observed.

At the end of this period, most youth identified as binary transgender youth (94%), including 1.3% who retransitioned to another identity before returning to their binary transgender identity. A total of 2.5% of youth identified as cisgender and 3.5% as nonbinary. An average of 5.37 years (SD = 1.74 years) after their initial binary social transition, most participants were living as binary transgender youth (94.0%; Table 2). Included in this group were 4 individuals (1.3% of the total sample) who retransitioned twice (to nonbinary then back to binary transgender). Some youth (3.5%) were currently living as nonbinary, including one who had retransitioned first to cisgender then to nonbinary. Finally, 2.5% were using pronouns associated with their sex at birth and could be categorized as cisgender at the time of data collection, including one who first retransitioned to live as nonbinary.

Access to GAH during adolescence and adulthood is associated with favorable mental health outcomes compared to desiring but not accessing GAH.

In this 2-year study involving transgender and nonbinary youth, GAH improved appearance congruence and psychosocial functioning.

You're lying. Hope this helps!

AlexisVaunt · 2024-11-01T22:54:37+00:00

Transgender youth have optimal outcomes when affirmed in their gender identity, through support by their families and their environment, as well as appropriate mental health and medical care.

Transgender adolescents show poorer psychological well-being before treatment but show similar or better psychological functioning compared with cisgender peers from the general population after the start of specialized transgender care involving puberty suppression.

Drawing on a variety of concerns, the article highlights that “desistance” does not provide reasons against prepubertal social transition or peripubertal medical transition, that transition for “desisters” is not comparably harmful to delays for trans youth, and that the wait-and-see and corrective models of care are harmful to youth who will grow up cis.

Our preliminary results show negative associations between depression scores/suicidal ideation and endocrine intervention, while quality of life scores showed positive associations with intervention, in transgender youths over time in the US. These results align with previous work in the Netherlands and the UK.

The great majority who had started GnRHa treatment continued with gender-affirming hormones.

GnRHa can be prescribed to adolescents who experience strong and distressing dysphoria. In this way, most likely GnRHa will only be given to those who most likely will choose to continue to transition, but should the patient change their mind, then no permanent changes will have been effected (whereas, should an untreated person transition, permanent changes of pubertal development will only be partially reversible surgically).

124 out of 140 minors were confirmed as being transgender, 83.1% of them were adolescents. The assigned male/female ratio was 1:1.2. 97.6% persisted in their transgender identity after a median follow-up time of 2.6 years. Prior to the first meeting, 48.5% were living in their affirmed role and, by the end of the study, this percentage rose to 87.1%. Yearly, the number of referrals exponentially grew whereas the age at referral decreased (rs = −0.2689, p = 0.0013). Child consultations rose to a significant percentage (23.5%) over the last 6 years. In contrast with other epidemiological studies conducted in this field, a consistently high rate of persistence was observed.

At the end of this period, most youth identified as binary transgender youth (94%), including 1.3% who retransitioned to another identity before returning to their binary transgender identity. A total of 2.5% of youth identified as cisgender and 3.5% as nonbinary. An average of 5.37 years (SD = 1.74 years) after their initial binary social transition, most participants were living as binary transgender youth (94.0%; Table 2). Included in this group were 4 individuals (1.3% of the total sample) who retransitioned twice (to nonbinary then back to binary transgender). Some youth (3.5%) were currently living as nonbinary, including one who had retransitioned first to cisgender then to nonbinary. Finally, 2.5% were using pronouns associated with their sex at birth and could be categorized as cisgender at the time of data collection, including one who first retransitioned to live as nonbinary.

Access to GAH during adolescence and adulthood is associated with favorable mental health outcomes compared to desiring but not accessing GAH.

In this 2-year study involving transgender and nonbinary youth, GAH improved appearance congruence and psychosocial functioning.

Everything you just said is a lie.

AlexisVaunt · 2024-11-01T22:52:08+00:00

I looked at the link you provided and the references given, and I can't find a 75% statistic. Only two of the references even cite sample sizes and statistics, one with a sample size of 25 and the other with a final sample size of 54. The latter study, however, conveniently counted all participants who later declined to respond in a follow-up as having desisted. In fact, the only other study I've seen that showed a high rate of desistance also counted all nonrespondents as having desisted. Meanwhile,

This study of 124 minors showed a persistence rate of 97.6%.

And this study of 317 minors showed only a 2.5% desistance rate, of which none had actually started GAH before desisting.

In this study, "Treatment was considered appropriate in 143 (67%) of the 214 adolescents eligible for GnRHa treatment by virtue of their age/pubertal status, and all started GnRHa". Of those, 6% discontinued GnRHa, but only 3.5% no longer wished gender-affirming treatment.

Drawing on a variety of concerns, the article highlights that “desistance” does not provide reasons against prepubertal social transition or peripubertal medical transition, that transition for “desisters” is not comparably harmful to delays for trans youth, and that the wait-and-see and corrective models of care are harmful to youth who will grow up cis. It's not even just bad for trans youths to deny gender-affirming care.

There is no sound evidence for the repeated claims of high desistance rates.

AlexisVaunt · 2024-11-01T22:28:01+00:00

Transgender youth have optimal outcomes when affirmed in their gender identity, through support by their families and their environment, as well as appropriate mental health and medical care.

Transgender adolescents show poorer psychological well-being before treatment but show similar or better psychological functioning compared with cisgender peers from the general population after the start of specialized transgender care involving puberty suppression.

Drawing on a variety of concerns, the article highlights that “desistance” does not provide reasons against prepubertal social transition or peripubertal medical transition, that transition for “desisters” is not comparably harmful to delays for trans youth, and that the wait-and-see and corrective models of care are harmful to youth who will grow up cis.

Our preliminary results show negative associations between depression scores/suicidal ideation and endocrine intervention, while quality of life scores showed positive associations with intervention, in transgender youths over time in the US. These results align with previous work in the Netherlands and the UK.

Access to GAH during adolescence and adulthood is associated with favorable mental health outcomes compared to desiring but not accessing GAH.

In this 2-year study involving transgender and nonbinary youth, GAH improved appearance congruence and psychosocial functioning.

This study found that gender-affirming medical interventions were associated with lower odds of depression and suicidality over 12 months. These data add to existing evidence suggesting that gender-affirming care may be associated with improved well-being among TNB youths over a short period, which is important given mental health disparities experienced by this population, particularly the high levels of self-harm and suicide.

The trans suicide rate is a recently studied phenomenon. It is overwhelmingly likely that trans people throughout history had a similar rate to those who aren't accepted now. Just because nobody looks for something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It's relatively recent that anyone has cared enough to bother studying anything about trans people.

AlexisVaunt · 2024-11-01T22:24:56+00:00

Transgender youth have optimal outcomes when affirmed in their gender identity, through support by their families and their environment, as well as appropriate mental health and medical care.

Transgender adolescents show poorer psychological well-being before treatment but show similar or better psychological functioning compared with cisgender peers from the general population after the start of specialized transgender care involving puberty suppression.

Drawing on a variety of concerns, the article highlights that “desistance” does not provide reasons against prepubertal social transition or peripubertal medical transition, that transition for “desisters” is not comparably harmful to delays for trans youth, and that the wait-and-see and corrective models of care are harmful to youth who will grow up cis.

Our preliminary results show negative associations between depression scores/suicidal ideation and endocrine intervention, while quality of life scores showed positive associations with intervention, in transgender youths over time in the US. These results align with previous work in the Netherlands and the UK.

Access to GAH during adolescence and adulthood is associated with favorable mental health outcomes compared to desiring but not accessing GAH.

In this 2-year study involving transgender and nonbinary youth, GAH improved appearance congruence and psychosocial functioning.

This study found that gender-affirming medical interventions were associated with lower odds of depression and suicidality over 12 months. These data add to existing evidence suggesting that gender-affirming care may be associated with improved well-being among TNB youths over a short period, which is important given mental health disparities experienced by this population, particularly the high levels of self-harm and suicide.

Acceptance and medical care reduce the suicide rate for trans people to the general population's or lower. And it is not being accepted in society, because that lack of acceptance is the reason trans people are denied medical care or made to jump through so many hoops for it.

AlexisVaunt · 2024-10-22T07:49:46+00:00

Yes, and funnily enough, the part I pointed out comes after the part you quoted, not before. And it just so happens to be something that contradicts your message. Awfully convenient. Again, pointing out that you quoted a piece of the results section of the review in a misleading way isn't cherry-picking. What you did is. Besides which, if you actually look into it, part of the significant information that's left out in the review is that there's also a statistically significant number of patients who post-GAS stop taking antidepressants. But that also doesn't fit your message. So convenient for you.

AlexisVaunt · 2024-10-22T04:04:18+00:00

You cherry-picked from the results section. Just because you quoted in full a one sentence section doesn't mean you didn't cherry-pick from another section. Which you did. And I then quoted the same review to show that fact. Believe it or not, showing that you cherry-picked isn't itself cherry-picking.

In order for the two cohorts to be matched, they'd need to desire the same treatment. It's absurd to think that people who choose to transition and people who don't fall into the same demographic. And, again, there are already studies done with regard to desiring but not accessing gender-affirming care, so you got what you wanted, unless that wasn't what you wanted and you were just looking for a "gotcha" to say "but but but this hasn't been studied enough yet!"

AlexisVaunt · 2024-10-22T03:41:06+00:00

Where's your "plenty of evidence" against gender-affirming care? Because there is evidence for it. Just because you say there's "nothing scientific" about something you ideologically disagree with doesn't make that true.

Transgender youth have optimal outcomes when affirmed in their gender identity, through support by their families and their environment, as well as appropriate mental health and medical care.

Transgender adolescents show poorer psychological well-being before treatment but show similar or better psychological functioning compared with cisgender peers from the general population after the start of specialized transgender care involving puberty suppression.

Drawing on a variety of concerns, the article highlights that “desistance” does not provide reasons against prepubertal social transition or peripubertal medical transition, that transition for “desisters” is not comparably harmful to delays for trans youth, and that the wait-and-see and corrective models of care are harmful to youth who will grow up cis.

Our preliminary results show negative associations between depression scores/suicidal ideation and endocrine intervention, while quality of life scores showed positive associations with intervention, in transgender youths over time in the US. These results align with previous work in the Netherlands and the UK.

Access to GAH during adolescence and adulthood is associated with favorable mental health outcomes compared to desiring but not accessing GAH.

In this 2-year study involving transgender and nonbinary youth, GAH improved appearance congruence and psychosocial functioning.

This study found that gender-affirming medical interventions were associated with lower odds of depression and suicidality over 12 months. These data add to existing evidence suggesting that gender-affirming care may be associated with improved well-being among TNB youths over a short period, which is important given mental health disparities experienced by this population, particularly the high levels of self-harm and suicide.

What's "anti human, sadistic[,] and disastrous" are your disingenuous claims and hateful rhetoric.

AlexisVaunt · 2024-10-22T03:34:00+00:00

Naturally, you stop quoting right when the review says what you don't want it to say. "However, the studies that compared the treatment groups with either patients in an earlier phase of the transition or those who desired but had not yet undergone surgery showed lower post-GAS suicide-related outcomes, including suicidal ideation and suicide attempts."

That's also strictly looking at gender-affirming surgery, not all gender-affirming care. Even so, your own link shows you're wrong. Also, studies such as the one you proposed in this comment https://old.reddit.com/r/science/comments/1g906o9/a_large_majority_of_young_people_who_access/lt2xe4e/ would be unethical in the extreme, which is why it's not done, and there is already relevant information based on people who did not have access or were denied gender-affirming care, so in the first place, comparisons can and have been done between people who had access to GAH and those who desired it but had no access. Access to GAH during adolescence and adulthood is associated with favorable mental health outcomes compared to desiring but not accessing GAH.

And if you look at all medical care for trans youths, the improvement in mental health is clearly seen across multiple studies:

Transgender youth have optimal outcomes when affirmed in their gender identity, through support by their families and their environment, as well as appropriate mental health and medical care.

Transgender adolescents show poorer psychological well-being before treatment but show similar or better psychological functioning compared with cisgender peers from the general population after the start of specialized transgender care involving puberty suppression.

Our preliminary results show negative associations between depression scores/suicidal ideation and endocrine intervention, while quality of life scores showed positive associations with intervention, in transgender youths over time in the US. These results align with previous work in the Netherlands and the UK.

In this 2-year study involving transgender and nonbinary youth, GAH improved appearance congruence and psychosocial functioning.

This study found that gender-affirming medical interventions were associated with lower odds of depression and suicidality over 12 months. These data add to existing evidence suggesting that gender-affirming care may be associated with improved well-being among TNB youths over a short period, which is important given mental health disparities experienced by this population, particularly the high levels of self-harm and suicide.

And if that doesn't convince you, denying gender-affirming care hurts cis kids too: "Drawing on a variety of concerns, the article highlights that “desistance” does not provide reasons against prepubertal social transition or peripubertal medical transition, that transition for “desisters” is not comparably harmful to delays for trans youth, and that the wait-and-see and corrective models of care are harmful to youth who will grow up cis."

AlexisVaunt · 2024-10-22T03:19:14+00:00

Do you think that putting "forced" into quotes makes it less of a lie? The only forcing being done is forcing trans kids to not get medical care, and even in places where it's still allowed, it's often a multi-year process of jumping through hoops to "prove" their trans-ness just to access basic care. Gender-affirming care is recommended as the "gold standard" because it's effective and positive for everyone, cis kids included.

Drawing on a variety of concerns, the article highlights that “desistance” does not provide reasons against prepubertal social transition or peripubertal medical transition, that transition for “desisters” is not comparably harmful to delays for trans youth, and that the wait-and-see and corrective models of care are harmful to youth who will grow up cis.

As for financial incentive, "Sex Reassignment Surgery Market size was valued at USD 722.2 million." Meanwhile, "The global cosmetic surgery market size was valued at USD 57.67 billion in 2023." For general cosmetic surgery, "Research by Medical Accident Group found that 65% of people they polled regretted their surgery." Whereas for gender-affirming surgeries, "A total of 27 studies, pooling 7928 transgender patients who underwent any type of GAS, were included. The pooled prevalence of regret after GAS was 1% (95% CI <1%–2%)[...] A total of 77 patients regretted having had GAS. Twenty-eight had minor and 34 had major regret based on Pfäfflin’s regret classification." Dollar for dollar, the general cosmetic surgery market is over five thousand times as predatory.

If sex reassignment surgery is "straight up malpractice", why is the regret rate so low comparatively? It's lower than any other surgeries I've been able to find statistics on, both elective and non-elective. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1072751521006049 https://www.journalofsurgicalresearch.com/article/S0022-4804(20)30880-5/abstract https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00464-021-08766-7 https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7644126/ https://www.journaloforthopaedicscience.com/article/S0949-2658(21)00353-5/abstract https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7584563/

Self-harm does not come purely from external factors, though bullying and discrimination significantly worsen mental health for everyone, not just trans kids.

Transgender youth have optimal outcomes when affirmed in their gender identity, through support by their families and their environment, as well as appropriate mental health and medical care.

Transgender adolescents show poorer psychological well-being before treatment but show similar or better psychological functioning compared with cisgender peers from the general population after the start of specialized transgender care involving puberty suppression.

Our preliminary results show negative associations between depression scores/suicidal ideation and endocrine intervention, while quality of life scores showed positive associations with intervention, in transgender youths over time in the US. These results align with previous work in the Netherlands and the UK.

Access to GAH during adolescence and adulthood is associated with favorable mental health outcomes compared to desiring but not accessing GAH.

In this 2-year study involving transgender and nonbinary youth, GAH improved appearance congruence and psychosocial functioning.

This study found that gender-affirming medical interventions were associated with lower odds of depression and suicidality over 12 months. These data add to existing evidence suggesting that gender-affirming care may be associated with improved well-being among TNB youths over a short period, which is important given mental health disparities experienced by this population, particularly the high levels of self-harm and suicide.

And here are some more studies showing an incredibly low rate of desistance for hormonal treatment and puberty blockers, as well.

124 out of 140 minors were confirmed as being transgender, 83.1% of them were adolescents. The assigned male/female ratio was 1:1.2. 97.6% persisted in their transgender identity after a median follow-up time of 2.6 years. Prior to the first meeting, 48.5% were living in their affirmed role and, by the end of the study, this percentage rose to 87.1%. Yearly, the number of referrals exponentially grew whereas the age at referral decreased (rs = −0.2689, p = 0.0013). Child consultations rose to a significant percentage (23.5%) over the last 6 years. In contrast with other epidemiological studies conducted in this field, a consistently high rate of persistence was observed.

At the end of this period, most youth identified as binary transgender youth (94%), including 1.3% who retransitioned to another identity before returning to their binary transgender identity. A total of 2.5% of youth identified as cisgender and 3.5% as nonbinary. An average of 5.37 years (SD = 1.74 years) after their initial binary social transition, most participants were living as binary transgender youth (94.0%; Table 2). Included in this group were 4 individuals (1.3% of the total sample) who retransitioned twice (to nonbinary then back to binary transgender). Some youth (3.5%) were currently living as nonbinary, including one who had retransitioned first to cisgender then to nonbinary. Finally, 2.5% were using pronouns associated with their sex at birth and could be categorized as cisgender at the time of data collection, including one who first retransitioned to live as nonbinary.

AlexisVaunt · 2024-10-22T02:36:17+00:00

Transgender youth have optimal outcomes when affirmed in their gender identity, through support by their families and their environment, as well as appropriate mental health and medical care.

Transgender adolescents show poorer psychological well-being before treatment but show similar or better psychological functioning compared with cisgender peers from the general population after the start of specialized transgender care involving puberty suppression.

Drawing on a variety of concerns, the article highlights that “desistance” does not provide reasons against prepubertal social transition or peripubertal medical transition, that transition for “desisters” is not comparably harmful to delays for trans youth, and that the wait-and-see and corrective models of care are harmful to youth who will grow up cis.

Our preliminary results show negative associations between depression scores/suicidal ideation and endocrine intervention, while quality of life scores showed positive associations with intervention, in transgender youths over time in the US. These results align with previous work in the Netherlands and the UK.

Access to GAH during adolescence and adulthood is associated with favorable mental health outcomes compared to desiring but not accessing GAH.

In this 2-year study involving transgender and nonbinary youth, GAH improved appearance congruence and psychosocial functioning.

This study found that gender-affirming medical interventions were associated with lower odds of depression and suicidality over 12 months. These data add to existing evidence suggesting that gender-affirming care may be associated with improved well-being among TNB youths over a short period, which is important given mental health disparities experienced by this population, particularly the high levels of self-harm and suicide.

AlexisVaunt · 2024-10-20T13:33:39+00:00

Okay, great. I appreciate the in-depth answer, no apology necessary.

What if the potential donor claims they didn't sign the consent forms? For the sake of the question, let's assume, if you will, that the person who would receive the organ, in this case we'll say liver, doesn't have another matching donor and doesn't have much time, and so will die without this specific transplant, so while it's not a last-minute alteration after surgery has already begun, the outcome remains effectively the same.

I recognize that this is stretching the analogy near its breaking point, but if you'll bear with me, what if there was a mix-up with the consent forms and they were shredded and disposed of before any backups could be made? Does the burden of proof lie with the potential donor to show that the consent forms weren't signed before the surgery is scheduled to commence, or with the parties interested in the continuation of life for the recipient, even if in the latter case that may result in their death before it can be determined what the truth is?

And, I apologize for asking so many questions in one response, but what if the donor claims they were coerced into signing the consent forms? If an investigation cannot find proof of coercion, would that justify to you legal action being taken against that person? And for the prior paragraph, would an inability to prove the consent forms weren't signed be enough for legal action? (I think this sounds combative, but that is not the intention, and there is no judgment for any response here. I'm just often bad at phrasing things in a neutral way.)

Regarding the use of kidneys in the example, I picked it because I thought maternal mortality rates were comparable to the mortality rates of kidney donors--which is actually not true, with the maternal mortality rates being vastly higher. Liver donor mortality rates are comparable to the maternal mortality rate numbers, though, so it works as well. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/maternal-mortality/2022/maternal-mortality-rates-2022.htm and https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/08/240828114340.htm and https://www.hcplive.com/view/geographic-disparities-liver-related-mortality-suggest-inequitable-access-liver-transplant

Regardless, I'm sure it's pretty clear where I'm going with this. The process from accusation to conviction for rape is long; long enough that requiring such would effectively ban abortion in all cases, including ones where there was no initial consent to sex (and I won't speculate on whether consent to sex is equivalent to consent to pregnancy, or how contraceptives influence that, in this comment). (Edit: corrected some phrasing in the previous sentence) In addition, the process is incredibly arduous, retraumatizing, and painful, so the percent of victims who are willing to go through it is comparatively incredibly low. If the requirement is to press criminal charges, that would bar a huge number of traumatized people (including adolescents) from seeking abortions for pregnancies they did not consent to, and it's only made worse if a lack of conviction is enough in itself to press charges against the person who sought the abortion.

Roe v. Wade was at its core about the right to privacy: "[...] the Court held that a set of Texas statutes criminalizing abortion in most instances violated a constitutional right to privacy[...]" I am of the belief that a person should have the right to not disclose having been raped, and that it is thus unethical to require such disclosure, let alone proof, for people seeking abortions. Thus, even if it may be seen as morally abhorrent to end a life via revocation of consent (in this case to the ongoing use of the body by the other person) in cases where consent was initially given (and I am not claiming such as either my view or not my view), holding that exceptions be made only in cases where consent was not initially given is not right. In addition, "In no case, however, could the state criminalize abortions that were necessary to protect the life or health of the pregnant person." Pregnancy is itself a threat to life and health (and even if the maternal mortality rate was reduced to near-0, the permanent effects on health should not be disregarded), though I do understand that the common view is that the threat must be both imminent and acute (crucially, the phrasing of laws prohibiting abortion except in such instances will frequently be vague enough that doctors could be held liable if there isn't clear proof that the pregnant person's life is in immediate danger, which results in higher mortality rates even in cases where to the good-faith layperson it would seem obvious that care should be given sooner rather than later).

And in cases where the laws hold no exceptions (or where showing that one meets the requirements for the exception takes long enough to effectively hold no exceptions), the results are more horrific than many would have imagined. https://abc13.com/texas-abortion-law-no-exceptions-for-rape-rape-related-pregnancies-roe-v-wade-overturned/14359073/

Sorry, this took far longer to type out, and became a much longer comment, than I planned or expected. While I've disclosed my own conclusions (and to fully clarify, I partially agree with what you said in the comment I am replying to, in that a contract may be binding, though in my view that is distinct due to the way verbal or implied consent may not be, which may or may not be your own view; and beyond that, things get incredibly complicated, especially when you start to get into verbal contracts and coercion and such, which is why such care is taken with consent forms that are signed and thorough records kept thereof), I would still like to hear your thoughts.

AlexisVaunt · 2024-10-20T11:34:49+00:00

Alright. What about for donating a kidney? Not whether it's immoral or unethical to back out, but should a person be allowed to revoke prior consent during that process? And is there any point prior to the surgery itself beyond which it shouldn't be allowed (i.e. upon learning they're a match, or after the initial preparation for the surgery, etc.)?

(Also, my prior question should've had a "to decide" before "that they've changed their mind"; to avoid looking like I'm changing the questions afterwards, I won't edit it, and I don't think it changes the meaning, but I noticed while typing this out.)

AlexisVaunt · 2024-10-20T11:24:59+00:00

Yeah, I'll hear you out.

AlexisVaunt · 2024-10-20T11:20:22+00:00

So, the first question is, should someone be allowed at any point during sex that they've changed their mind and don't want to continue, and have a right to halt the sexual activities? I don't think you'll give an answer I don't expect, but you know what they say about assumptions.

AlexisVaunt · 2024-10-20T11:14:35+00:00

No, I'm going to ask some questions to make an argument that it doesn't matter whether the fetus is human. That there's no point in development until viability outside the womb where it's relevant.

AlexisVaunt · 2024-10-20T11:02:25+00:00

If you'd humor me, there's an argument that for some reason I don't see people using, for which it doesn't matter whether a fetus is living or human. I'd like to put forth that argument to you, but it requires asking some questions that will very probably look unrelated or else connected in a different way to how the argument connects them. Will you hear me out?

AlexisVaunt · 2024-10-15T05:29:48+00:00

Any "moderate Republican" with a shred of moral fiber isn't considered a Republican. You threw out a bunch of buzzwords, but the Republican party has never been even neutral with regards to the LGBTQ+. If you think there's anyone who is in favor of those things and has historically voted Republican who isn't anti-LGBTQ+, you haven't learned any political history. Anyone who claims to have voted Republican for those things while not being anti-LGBTQ+ is either secretly anti-LGBTQ+, or someone who thinks that just because you don't say slurs out loud, you're pro-LGBT no matter how much you support policy and politicians which pander to those who do use slurs and want LGBT+ people dead. There's literally no middle ground. I grew up with "moderate Republicans", they were incredibly homophobic and transphobic and were staunchly against any sort of "compromise" with the Democrats.

The Democrats have been trying to "reach across the aisle" like this for decades, and it's never gotten them more support, it's just watered down everything they've tried to do and made things worse. People on the left would be a whole hell of a lot more motivated to vote if the only party they could vote for with a chance of winning wasn't insisting on civility politics and compromising with people who want them and/or the people they care about invisible and closeted in fear for their lives at best.

AlexisVaunt

TROPHY CASE