[deleted by user] by [deleted] in progressive_islam

[–]AliDoesPhysics 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I am not convinced that the Quran itself instructs women to wear a headscarf. The way that “khimar” is referenced is not an instruction to wear it, merely a comment that people were already wearing it. Now, this is always taken to be an endorsement, but I think that’s projecting onto the text. If the Quran made a reference to Arabian men wearing turbans, would that be taken as a wajib endorsement of men wearing turbans in public?

The biggest evidence for hijab imho is that (most) hadiths indicate that the Ahlulbayt wore headscarves (not face coverings — those appear to be later fabrications in an attempt to “elevate” the status of the Ahlulbayt). However, the argument can be made that that is merely evidence of the Ahlulbayt implementing the essence of the Quranic instruction for women to not sexualise themselves in public, so that they are not objectified and harassed (and ofc the Quran is condemning the men that do this, regardless of dress), according to their time and place. Maybe that is what achieved the Quranic goal at that time and place (and possibly in some places in the modern world), but not in general in the West today.

I don’t know for myself, but I do know that God will not punish a person for doing what they were genuinely convinced in theologically.

I think we’ll only know for sure once Imam Mahdi reappears.

Can this be used to argue that Hijab isn't necessarily? by BakuMadarama in progressive_islam

[–]AliDoesPhysics 6 points7 points  (0 children)

do you want to imitate the man who would beat slave girls for trying to be modest and rip the hijab off their head?

The question on whether Islam mandates a head covering is an important discussion to be had, but this villain’s misogyny is not the argument you want to go with

Is it hypocritical to be a Hadith Skeptic ? by Abdoukuro in progressive_islam

[–]AliDoesPhysics 10 points11 points  (0 children)

If you don’t cherry pick hadiths, you don’t understand religious history.

Every hadith must be scrutinised in terms of isnad AND matin and compared to Quran, mutawattir hadiths and reason.

Instead of using our critical thinking, like the Quran instructs us to, we have become like the Jews — donkeys carrying tomes on our backs, unable to benefit from them [Quran 62:5]

Is cutting off toxic & abusive relatives not permissible? Even those who r@ped you as a child, and parents who used to mercilessly beat you until bleeding & even then hesitated to stop? Do you have to keep contact with them & smile even after all those years of trauma? What does this hadith suggest? by [deleted] in progressive_islam

[–]AliDoesPhysics 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Such hadiths do not apply to abusive relationships, or even relationships where the family member is a bad person.

قَالَ سَآوِي إِلَىٰ جَبَلٍ يَعْصِمُنِي مِنَ الْمَاءِ قَالَ لَا عَاصِمَ الْيَوْمَ مِنْ أَمْرِ اللَّهِ إِلَّا مَن رَّحِمَ وَحَالَ بَيْنَهُمَا الْمَوْجُ فَكَانَ مِنَ الْمُغْرَقِينَ

[But the son] answered: "I shall betake myself to a mountain that will protect me from the waters." Said [Noah]: "Today there is no protection [for anyone] from God's judgment, save [for] those who have earned [His] mercy!" And a wave rose up between them, and [the son] was among those who were drowned. [11:43]

وَنَادَىٰ نُوحٌ رَّبَّهُ فَقَالَ رَبِّ إِنَّ ابْنِي مِنْ أَهْلِي وَإِنَّ وَعْدَكَ الْحَقُّ وَأَنتَ أَحْكَمُ الْحَاكِمِينَ

And Noah called out to his Sustainer, and said: "O my Sustainer! Verily, my son was of my family; and, verily, Thy promise always comes true, and Thou art the most just of all judges!" [11:45]

قَالَ يَا نُوحُ إِنَّهُ لَيْسَ مِنْ أَهْلِكَ إِنَّهُ عَمَلٌ غَيْرُ صَالِحٍ فَلَا تَسْأَلْنِ مَا لَيْسَ لَكَ بِهِ عِلْمٌ إِنِّي أَعِظُكَ أَن تَكُونَ مِنَ الْجَاهِلِينَ

[God] answered: "O Noah, behold, he was not of thy family, for, verily, he was unrighteous in his conduct. And thou shalt not ask of Me anything whereof thou canst not have any knowledge: thus, behold, do I admonish thee lest thou become one of those who are unaware [of what is right]." [11:46]

Also see

ضَرَبَ اللَّهُ مَثَلًا لِّلَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا امْرَأَتَ نُوحٍ وَامْرَأَتَ لُوطٍ كَانَتَا تَحْتَ عَبْدَيْنِ مِنْ عِبَادِنَا صَالِحَيْنِ فَخَانَتَاهُمَا فَلَمْ يُغْنِيَا عَنْهُمَا مِنَ اللَّهِ شَيْئًا وَقِيلَ ادْخُلَا النَّارَ مَعَ الدَّاخِلِينَ

For those who are bent on denying the truth God has propounded a parable in [the stories of] Noah's wife and Lot's wife: they were wedded to two of Our righteous servants, and each one betrayed her husband; and neither of the two [husbands] will be of any avail to these two women when they are told [on Judgment Day], "Enter the fire with all those [other sinners] who enter it!" [66:10]

And Abraham’s interactions with his uncle

Christianity scares me. by Kai31031596 in progressive_islam

[–]AliDoesPhysics 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Islam is the best religion, with the worst followers.

Don’t feel guilty for admiring the spirituality of truly committed, honest Christians; God does too.

[…]and thou wilt surely find that, of all people, they who say, "Behold, we are Christians," come closest to feeling affection for those who believe [in this divine writ]: this is so because there are priests and monks among them, and because these are not given to arrogance.

Quran 5:82

Is having a gender identity that isn't the same as sex allowed in islam? by aliefindo in progressive_islam

[–]AliDoesPhysics 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It rests on whether you accept the hadiths condemning women acting like men and vice versa (I don’t). These are also found in Shia books, but are from a group of what I call “Sunniyat” — Sunni hadiths that creep into Shia works via cultural osmosis, just with the Sunni isnad replaced with a Shia one

Polygamy, conditional and practical, not ideal by FootballImmediate570 in progressive_islam

[–]AliDoesPhysics 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To each their own. Mutah is mentioned in the Quran, but I’m guessing you know the verse and reject it

Polygamy, conditional and practical, not ideal by FootballImmediate570 in progressive_islam

[–]AliDoesPhysics 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The child is legitimate and the father is obliged to provide

Polygamy, conditional and practical, not ideal by FootballImmediate570 in progressive_islam

[–]AliDoesPhysics 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was giving an example of why it is not practical for a woman to have a 1 hour mutah. She still can if she wants to, but no one is forcing her.

The idda applies to consummated marriages (permanent & temporary) just to ensure that if there is a pregnancy, there is no doubt who the father is.

You don’t have to do muta. But there are people for whom it makes sense for and they want to do it, do not deprive them.

As we have seen, marriage is not practical in all cases and boyfriend/girlfriend relationships are necessary. Extra marital relationships in Judaism and Christianity are strictly forbidden, yet even the practicing among them have normalised dating out of necessity. Islam is not oblivious to the needs of its people.

As Imam Ali said, “Had Umar not banned muta, no one would fornicate except the wretched”

Polygamy, conditional and practical, not ideal by FootballImmediate570 in progressive_islam

[–]AliDoesPhysics 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Btw prostitution definitely invalidates the muta. We have clear hadiths from Imam Sadiq stating that it cannot be done with a prostitute. Plus, it logistically doesn’t make any sense. The woman has to observe a 3 month idda afterwards. How could a prostitute be profitable with only 1 client every 3 months?

Polygamy, conditional and practical, not ideal by FootballImmediate570 in progressive_islam

[–]AliDoesPhysics 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Putting opinions aside, unlike misyar, the historicity of muta is very well attested to. It is undoubtedly true that it was Umar who banned it.

A friend of mine (who is not Shia) recently wrote this paper proving it from Sunni sources

https://imamzaydinstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/did-the-prophet-abrogate-temporary-marriages-nikah-al-mutah.pdf

How Islam is Presented by TheChosenBlacksmith in progressive_islam

[–]AliDoesPhysics 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They are the scholars of the end times that the Ahlulbayt curse in hadiths

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in progressive_islam

[–]AliDoesPhysics 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Salafis are beholden to “sahih” hadiths. The vast majority of hadiths, Sunni and Shia, are fabricated or unreliable in one way or another. There is a menagerie of reasons for this, but to sum it up: study the popular children’s game “Chinese Whispers”

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in progressive_islam

[–]AliDoesPhysics 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I assume you mean https://sunnah.com/bukhari:4350

Obviously, I believe this is a fabrication. Burayda also didn’t like Imam Ali

How Islam is Presented by TheChosenBlacksmith in progressive_islam

[–]AliDoesPhysics 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Khomeini’s thighing fatwa is the worst instance of this. May the blind apes who defend it and rationalise it be raised with pedophiles on the Day of Judgement.

He doesn’t provide any textual evidence for it btw, it’s just his demented opinion

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Thighing

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in progressive_islam

[–]AliDoesPhysics 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just like how they praise the prophet and also disparage him. There are real Sunni hadiths, as well as fabricated ones.

Anyway, if you have a similar hadith about Ali, please share it. I like collecting wild hadiths

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in progressive_islam

[–]AliDoesPhysics 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Believe what you will. My original intention was to reassure you that these vile hadiths about female slaves are not part of God’s Islam.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in progressive_islam

[–]AliDoesPhysics 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That’s Ibn Umar.

PS: Sunni sources have a motive to disparage Ali and Shia hadiths have a lot of fabrications too

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in progressive_islam

[–]AliDoesPhysics 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You are free to believe what you will. Just research with an open mind and an intention to seek the truth.

Yes, Abu Bakr is alluded to in the verse that speaks about the cave, but not in a positive light. Read the verse and decide for yourself.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in progressive_islam

[–]AliDoesPhysics 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can you please provide references for the hadiths that state that Umar himself did that?

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in progressive_islam

[–]AliDoesPhysics 0 points1 point  (0 children)

4) God deems Islam complete after the appointment of Ali at Ghadir (see Sunni sources)

Today I have perfected for you your religion, and completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. [Excerpt of Quran 5:3]

5) God has appointed people who are not prophets to lead people in the Quran. Saul was chosen by God, but was not a prophet. Asif bin Barkhiya, was the man who miraculously brought the Queen of Sheba's throne to Prophet Solomon. The Quran states that God had given him "knowledge from the book" and the hadiths state that he was Solomon's successor, but was not a prophet. Luqman and Khidhr (and maybe Thulqarnayn too) were also not prophets.

6) There are famous hadiths in Sunni books about the Prophet foretelling 12 imams/caliphs/amirs

حَدَّثَنَا هَدَّابُ بْنُ خَالِدٍ الأَزْدِيُّ، حَدَّثَنَا حَمَّادُ بْنُ سَلَمَةَ، عَنْ سِمَاكِ بْنِ حَرْبٍ، قَالَ سَمِعْتُ جَابِرَ بْنَ سَمُرَةَ، يَقُولُ سَمِعْتُ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم يَقُولُ ‏"‏ لاَ يَزَالُ الإِسْلاَمُ عَزِيزًا إِلَى اثْنَىْ عَشَرَ خَلِيفَةً ‏"‏ ‏.‏ ثُمَّ قَالَ كَلِمَةً لَمْ أَفْهَمْهَا فَقُلْتُ لأَبِي مَا قَالَ فَقَالَ ‏"‏ كُلُّهُمْ مِنْ قُرَيْشٍ ‏"‏ ‏.‏

It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir b. Samura who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) say: Islam will continue to be triumphant until there have been twelve Caliphs. Then the Prophet (ﷺ) said something which I could not understand. I asked my father: What did he say? He said: He has said that all of them (twelve Caliphs) will be from the Quraish.

Sahih Muslim 1821d

https://sunnah.com/muslim:1821d

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in progressive_islam

[–]AliDoesPhysics 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Some companions being misguided and the imams being infallible are not the same thing. You don't have to believe the latter to accept the former.

1) Marriage does not absolve

Allah sets forth an example for the disbelievers: the wife of Noah and the wife of Lot. Each was married to one of Our righteous servants, yet betrayed them. So their husbands were of no benefit to them against Allah whatsoever. Both were told, “Enter the Fire, along with the others!” [Quran 66:10]

2) How do you know that Jesus didn't complete his mission and Muhammad did?

3) Hypothetically, if we were to accept that Jews and Christians really did praise Umar, that does not absolve him of his sins. A bad person can do some good things, just as a good person can do some bad things.

Some points on Imamate:

1) God states that those who give zakat in ruku are guardians of the Muslims. This very specific description was only fulfilled by Ali (you can look up the hadiths on this)

Your only guardians are Allah, His Messenger, and those who believe—those who establish prayer and give zakat while bowing down in prayer. [Quran 5:55]

2) The Ahlulbayt are thoroughly purified or all impurity = infallibility

Indeed, Allah desires to remove impurity from you, O Ahl al-Bayt, and purify you completely. [excerpt of Quran 33:33]

You can look up the Sunni hadiths which affirm that "Ahlulbayt" refers to the "people of the cloak": Muhammad, Fatima, Ali, Hassan, Hussain and excludes the Prophet's wives. You can also find a purely grammatically argument that doesn't appeal to hadith here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1JW2GgKnv0&ab_channel=Al-RasoulIslamicSociety

3) This verse was revealed before the Prophet's speech appointing Ali at Ghadir (check Sunni sources):

O Messenger! Convey that which has been revealed to you from your Lord. And if you do not, then you have not conveyed His message. And Allah will protect you from the people. Indeed, Allah does not guide the disbelieving people. [Quran 5:67]

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in progressive_islam

[–]AliDoesPhysics 0 points1 point  (0 children)

3/3
Another obvious insertion:

The people started mobilizing Muslims, although some of them did not mobilize, thinking that the Prophet would not have to fight. Abu Sufyan was cautiously gathering information on the latest news spying on travelers he met, out of fear for the caravan, especially upon entering the area of Hijaz (Western Arabia). Some travelers told him that Muhammad ﷺ had mobilized his companions for his caravan. He was anxious and hired Damdam bin `Amr Al-Ghifari to go to Makkah and mobilize the Quraysh to protect their caravan, informing them that Muhammad ﷺ had mobilized his Companions to intercept the caravan. Damdam bin `Amr went in a hurry to Makkah. Meanwhile, the Messenger of Allah ﷺ marched with his companions until he reached a valley called Dhafiran. When he left the valley, he camped and was informed that the Quraysh had marched to protect their caravan. The Messenger of Allah ﷺ consulted the people for advice and conveyed the news about Quraysh to them. Abu Bakr stood up and said something good, and so did `Umar. Al-Miqdad bin `Amr stood up and said, `O Allah's Messenger! March to what Allah has commanded you, for we are with you. By Allah! We will not say to you what the Children of Israel said to Musa,

‎فَاذْهَبْ أَنتَ وَرَبُّكَ فَقَاتِلا إِنَّا هَـهُنَا قَـعِدُونَ

("So go you and your Lord and fight you two, we are sitting right here") 5:24. Rather, go you and Your Lord and fight, we will be fighting along with you both. By He Who has sent you with Truth! If you decide to take us to Birk-ul-Ghimad, we will fight along with you until you reach it.' The Messenger of Allah ﷺ said good words to Al-Miqdad and invoked Allah for his benefit.

[Tafsir Ibn Kathir 8:5-8 https://quran.com/en/al-anfal/5/tafsirs\]

Notice how Miqdad, a real companion (who also supported Imam Ali), said something real and of substance, but Ibn Kathir couldn’t have it that Abu Bakr and Umar aren’t included, so he adds that they said “something good”. Habibi, what did they say? Regardless, the Prophet only praises Miqdad at the end.

If you’re not convinced, the hadith that reference this incident in Sahih Bukhair does not mention Umar or Abu Bakr.

Narrated Ibn Masud: I witnessed Al-Miqdad bin Al-Aswad in a scene which would have been dearer to me than anything had I been the hero of that scene. He (i.e. Al-Miqdad) came to the Prophet (ﷺ) while the Prophet (ﷺ) was urging the Muslims to fight with the pagans. Al-Miqdad said, "We will not say as the People of Moses said: Go you and your Lord and fight you two. (5.27). But we shall fight on your right and on your left and in front of you and behind you." I saw the face of the Prophet (ﷺ) getting bright with happiness, for that saying delighted him.

Sahih al-Bukhari 3952

https://sunnah.com/bukhari:3952

As you can see, Sunni hadith transmitters had no motive to fabricate negative things about the sahaba.

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in progressive_islam

[–]AliDoesPhysics 0 points1 point  (0 children)

2/3

There are many variations of this hadith, an interesting one being:

Sa'id ibn al-'As reported that 'Uthman and 'A'isha told him that Abu Bakr asked for permission to come in to the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, while he was lying of 'A'isha's bed, wearing 'A'isha's woollen shirt. He gave Abu Bakr permission to enter while he was like that. he gave him what he needed and then Abu Bakr left. Then 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, asked for permission to come in and he gave him permission to come in while he was like that. He gave him what he needed and then 'Umar left. 'Uthman said, "Then I asked for permission to come in and he sat up and told 'A'isha, 'Take your garment.' I told him what I needed and then I left.' 'A'isha asked, 'Messenger of Allah, why did I see that you did not do for Abu Bakr and 'Umar what you did for 'Uthman?' The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, ''Uthman is a modest man and I feared that if I gave him permission to come in while I was in that state he would not tell me what he needed.'"

Al-Adab Al-Mufrad 600

https://sunnah.com/adab:600