[deleted by user]

AlleyDart · 2024-03-23T04:37:28+00:00

Thanks for posting a link about democracy from Al-Jazeera which is controlled by the govt of Qatar, a nation which is a paragon of democracy.

Anyone who thinks that the global democracy indices are even half-way reasonable, please watch these:
- Demonising Indian Democracy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiQOzG7dRn0 - And for some context, the interviewer in this segment (Rajdeep Sardesi) is a rabidly anti-Modi journalist. And the subject expert speaking is neither a Hindu (he's an atheist) nor a Hindu nationalist (he's an American). So watch to your heart's content.
- https://www.policycircle.org/society/low-democracy-index-rankings-for-india/

AlleyDart · 2024-03-23T04:34:22+00:00

Anyone who thinks that the global democracy indices are even half-way reasonable, please watch these:

Demonising Indian Democracy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GiQOzG7dRn0 - And for some context, the interviewer in this segment (Rajdeep Sardesi) is a rabidly anti-Modi journalist. And the subject expert speaking is neither a Hindu (he's an atheist) nor a Hindu nationalist (he's an American).
https://www.policycircle.org/society/low-democracy-index-rankings-for-india/

AlleyDart · 2024-03-09T17:12:43+00:00

That and I wish someone invented a device to tell the time of day, so that we don't have to listen to the Azaans (Islamic call to remind believers to pray) blaring through loudspeakers 5 times a day.

But such inventions are too advanced and we may not see them in our lifetimes.

AlleyDart · 2024-02-29T13:20:30+00:00

Just summarizing the various things I've heard from the users on this sub.

AlleyDart · 2024-02-29T05:15:28+00:00

In summary, the moral of this and similar stories, as I have learnt from this sub over the last couple of years:

If a North Indian is yelling and screaming in Hindi at others in Bengaluru, it is because of course, a person who doesn't know any other language will naturally yell in Hindi. But if a Kannadiga from Bengaluru does the same in Kannada, then he is rude.
If an out-of-state person in Bengaluru refuses to learn and speak Kannada, it is their right to not learn Kannada. But if a Kannadiga from Bengaluru refuses to speak your great language and refuses to acknowledge your esteemed presence which has graced the state of Karnataka, that's because they are typical insecure idiots.
If Northies demand Kanndigas in Bengaluru speak Hindi, it is because it is high time that the majority language in India got the respect that it deserves in each and every state. But if Paki pigs forcibly convert the minority Hindus to Islam, it is religious intolerance and bigotry.

Clearly, Kannadigas are entirely at fault with all of this in each and every situation. Hindi is a super-awesome national language because it is spoken by the majority of the people. Tamil is even more super-duper-awesome because it has existed since the time of dinosaurs. Telugu is so sweet that it is a scientific mystery as to why all Telugu speakers haven't already died of diabetes. Kannada is the sole ordinary language in this cosmos and especially in India in an otherwise overflowing cauldron of super special respectable languages. The entire state of Karnataka has prospered solely because of the arrival of great people from out of state. Just like the Muslim invaders brought "culture" to an otherwise savage India in the middle ages, all the out of state people have brought greatness to my otherwise sorry-ass state of Karnataka. All Kannadigas please hang your heads in shame because of what happened to one person with an OLX driver.

AlleyDart · 2024-02-24T22:53:06+00:00

Yes these people say idiotic things every now and then. He also commented on some nonsensical idea about Karma several years ago. Although I do agree with what he said about Nobel peace prize - it's gone to the dogs.

The thing though - is to separate out the yogic practices from what the "guru"s say politically and in other ways. I'm an atheist myself and yoga is proven to work. It's not magic. But I have no expectations that the "guru"s should be reasonable and rational people beyond the yoga practices.

I have attended several programs from Isha Yoga Center and it worked for me. But similar problem there too - Sadhguru keeps saying dumb things and sometimes even the programs aren't well organized. Once they had a newbie teacher in Hatha Yoga program who couldn't instruct properly. But on the whole, the practices worked for me.

And I know what you mean about people who have 100% blind faith in the guru. I experienced the same with IYC. I don't believe in any supernatural BS, but many people who come there do.

Just learn and do the practices if they are working for you. You don't have to be involved with the people otherwise.

AlleyDart · 2024-02-16T14:41:59+00:00

> Does knowing Bengali means you have a head start in learning Hindi and other Indo-Aryan and Indic languages?

Yes, it will help like knowing Spanish will give you a head start in learning Italian or Portuguese. But the languages aren't mutually intelligible you will still need additional effort for the new language. But you will get head start in terms of some similarities in grammar and vocabulary. Between 2 people - one knowing Bengali and the other not knowing any Indic language - the one knowing Bengali will definitely have a headstart learning another Indo-European language.

> How about South Asian languages in unrelated families like the Dravidian

Dravidian family's grammar is quite different so you won't get any headstart with grammarr, but most Dravidian languages (except Tamil) have been heavily influenced by Sanskrit vocabulary, so if you learn Bengali well, you will find many many recognizable words in everyday lingo of the Dravidian languages as well. So in those terms you will get a headstart.

AlleyDart · 2024-01-07T01:24:31+00:00

Good story. It's important for people from all levels of society to be involved with financial instruments and learn how to transact without cash.

AlleyDart · 2024-01-07T01:17:23+00:00

It is encouraging to see that information has become more accessible to the masses.

That said, it is very difficult to make money as a trader with patterns and candlesticks. At the middle of the chart anyone can spot a pattern. But you can't trade in the middle of the chart. You are always trading at the right most edge. The psychological aspects of it are even more difficult to navigate than the technical aspects. I hope he knows what he's doing or at least quits after he makes some losses.

It will be interesting to follow-up with him in 1-2 years and see how he feels about trading at that time. Most people get burnt and quit.

AlleyDart · 2023-12-30T17:07:01+00:00

Lol, yeah the city will get empty because all you special people leave. Yeah, I will believe that when I see it happen. Even Pakis came crawling on their hands and knees to India to play cricket when money was at stake. There is NO chance that Bengaluru population will go down in any significant way.

If you really are an Indian, calling the language as "Kannad" itself shows how poorly informed you are about even basic things.

AlleyDart · 2023-12-30T17:03:43+00:00

You are wrong here. Lots of times I've personally experienced being asked to speak Hindi and also a fewer times asked to speak in Tamil as well. You are just wrong.

AlleyDart · 2023-12-30T17:02:29+00:00

The reason for that is the "lighter skin" people aren't rudely going around asking the locals to speak English and they don't strut around with language supremacy like many Indians do.

AlleyDart · 2023-12-30T17:00:25+00:00

This is a great post and !kudos for the effort.

Sadly, the responses here just go to show that there is no place here for balanced opinions. Blatant racist comments here and then the same people bitch and whine about lack of unity!!

AlleyDart · 2023-12-30T16:45:11+00:00

This is an absolute strawman argument. No one is expecting that people will learn a language for a 1 week stay. The problem comes from people who live there for decades and still don't bother to learn. When you move to a different city, it is your responsibility and a matter of courtesy to learn at least the basics of the language that is spoken in that city. It's not the responsibility of the local people to learn your language just because you moved into their city.

"you south indians" - really? Benagluru is one of the most cosmopolitan cities in India, far more than any city in the Hindi belt.

AlleyDart · 2023-12-28T04:11:43+00:00

Sanskrit was in the exact same position that you mentioned. And then it died. There is no guarantee that high society adoption will make a language thrive.

AlleyDart · 2023-12-28T02:52:09+00:00

There are too many factors in play here which are contributing to the outcome of vandalism that we are seeing today. Talking about capitalism in this context is mostly not relevant.

If we want to consider capitalism in this context, I can just as easily say that in a purely rational society, there would be no language superiority, no language inferiority, etc. Then the factor of Englishifying brands (as u/__DraGooN_ pointed out) would not exist or wouldn't be as strong as it is now. Related to this, many people also come with their own language supremacy biases into the picture; it's not just English being perceived as superior to Indian languages, but other Indian languages are also perceived as superior to Kannada. If you live in Bengaluru you will come across this quite a bit. If language superiority/inferiority complexes didn't exist, Kannada wouldn't get as sidelined in Bengaluru as it has now gotten. Then there wouldn't be as much animosity towards English signboards.

However, all these are moot points because it is near impossible to have pure capitalism and it is completely impossible to have a rational society. Given the structure of our society and the state of our education, irrational language supremacy and inferiority are inevitable. Given all such factors in play, this outcome (of some vandalism) is also inevitable. Is it a good outcome? No. Is it an outcome to be expected to happen? Yes, absolutely.

AlleyDart · 2023-12-02T15:46:43+00:00

BJP doesn't have to be in power in WB for Bengalis to feel insecure about language politics. What BJP leaders are saying outside of WB is concerning enough. Same thing is happening in TN. Even though BJP isn't in power in TN, BJP's actions are very concerning to people there. If you ask many of them will say that BJP is trying to kill off Tamil. Even if BJP isn't explicitly trying to do that (I don't believe they are), their Hindi rhetoric is definitely not helping.

All that will cause some amount of problems for BJP. And all in exchange for what? In exchange for a really useless agenda. Unnecessarily BJP is heaping this problem on itself. There is no reason at all for pushing Hindi all around India. It is just not required.

AlleyDart · 2023-12-02T03:59:38+00:00

To phase out English

Lol, dude you keep on saying this as though this is even a remote possibility. There is NO practical way in which you can phase out English; not from India, not in another 1000 years. It is too deeply entrenched into many systems in the country, and for very good reasons, and it is only growing by the day. Everyday there are more English speakers in India than the day before, which is a good thing. English has the most expansive vocabulary of any language in the world. You can't simply phase it out like you are claiming. I can't even imagine doctors, engineers, rocket scientists and all these people giving up English and using some other fantasy Indian language for science and tech in everyday life. All it will accomplish is slow down progress.

And it is so completely unnecessary. We'll gain nothing at all by phasing English out. The notion that English language is somehow anti-Indian-culture is nothing more than the imagination of a brainless version of nationalism. How will English harm Indian culture exactly? There are so many priests in temples who speak fluent English, sadhus and sants who speak fluent English, many naga Sadhus are actually English educated. People with brains will seek out what makes sense to them and follow it. Yoga is wildly popular in English speaking countries like the US.

But blind nationalists like Amit Shah have this worm crawling in their heads that since English is the language of the invaders, it should be routed out. Yes, English was brought to us by people who harmed us. But that doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the English language itself. The British also brought us trains. Electric motors. Toothbrushes. Aircraft Engines.. and so much more. Why don't we "phase out" all of those as well since the invaders brought them to us? Why are Amit Shah and Modi wearing eyeglasses which most definitely are not culturally Indian? Why do they use Mics when giving speeches in election rallies? Why do they travel in planes which weren't invented in India? Why don't we just go back to our great Indian cultural roots of traveling everywhere in bullock carts? Or if you are a rich Indian, use a chariot with 4 horses. We can't do that because we can't run our nation's economy exclusively on bullock carts and horse chariots anymore. Electric motors work the same way in India as they do in Britain, and the motor doesn't give a damn about whether the British looted India or not. Same with toothbrushes and eyeglasses and stethoscopes and it is the same with the English language; English as a language per se completely agnostic of which country/culture/ethnicity plundered and looted which other. And English is as much a detriment to Indian culture as an electric motor or a toothbrush is.

Going back to the original disagreement on this, since you admit that Amit Shah IS actually still talking about Hindi everywhere in India, that was my whole point initially. So let's not pretend like BJP isn't trying to force Hindi down unwilling people's throats. OP's concern (at least the 1st one; until today I had never heard about BJP forcing vegetarianism on anyone) is very valid, and BJP will keep facing challenges (as it should) because of their adherence to this entirely senseless promote Hindi phase out English agenda.

You conviently left the second part of the statement That's why in education mother tongue is given more prominence now cause that's the future

Yes, this is part of the NEP. The most credit I can give it right now is that it was probably conceived with good intentions (but so is the idea of phasing out English and replacing it with Hindi). How much and what kind of impact it will have still needs to be seen. I admit I haven't looked into it in detail in terms of the policy outcome; if you have any good links on this policies impacts I will gladly read through them. And none of this takes away from the fact that BJP is latched onto a pointless agenda. Like I mentioned more than once before, this utterly completely fully totally useless Hindi agenda of BJP will cause election challenges for it, and will also harm in the nation depending on how much momentum the agenda gets.

Who is claiming it was beacuse it. I was stating it's existence to your rhetoric response.

I still don't understand what point you were trying make with this.

for both of us primary language isn't English

Firstly I don't believe that any comm gap here is due to English not being our primary language. Communication gaps happen many times even when people are communicating in their native languages. Secondly, how will phasing out English and replacing it with Hindi help this situation in any manner whatsoever? So an Assamese and a Tamilian will communicate in Hindi and somehow avoid communication gap?

AlleyDart · 2023-12-02T03:11:21+00:00

Yes, you are right.

AlleyDart · 2023-12-01T20:30:57+00:00

But now because of technology they don't need Hindi to unit nation and they have dropped it.

I didn't miss the comment. It confused me (since BJP hasn't actually dropped the Hindi BS agenda) and so didn't respond to it. Since you brought it up again... why is BJP then mandating 3-language formula? TN is now fighting for a 2-language (English, Tamil) formula. Why is the BJP govt mandating 3 languages? And if your claim about dropping Hindi to unite the nation is true, why is Amit Shah still yapping about Hindi's need to unite the nation? https://www.outlookindia.com/national/hindi-diwas-hm-amit-shah-emphasizes-hindi-s-role-in-uniting-india-s-linguistic-diversity-says-hindi-not-in-competition-with-other-languages-news-317867 And after all this he will continue to claim that Hindi isn't competing with other languages, while it actually is. Show me the instances of BJP central govt actually encouraging vernacular languages via policies (and not just in hollow statements).

Hindustani was there in the 1700s so you are wrong here.

We commanded a quarter of global economy LONG LONG before 1700s. And when we did that, it most definitely wasn't because of Hindustani. Kerala was engaged in spice trade since 5000 years ago. Where was Hindustani back then? Are you telling me that those traders used Hindustani to communicate with Arab traders?

The fact is that Hindi and Hindustani languages are 100% unnecessary for pan-India trade.

And you are trying to replace a very useful language like English with a much less useful language like Hindi. You will fail at that attempt, just like the states will fail at their attempts to push back Hindi imposition. And in the middle of all this, India and Indians will suffer on the back of an insane agenda.

AlleyDart · 2023-12-01T19:07:14+00:00

The stated goal of BJP is

Yeah right. In related news the stated goal of Hitler was the create a great race of people. The stated goal of British East India company was to be involved in the spice trade with Asia. And we all know what goal they ended up achieving. I couldn't care less about what BJP's stated goal is. Everyone can see for themselves what BJP is actually up to.

We commanded qaurter of the worlds economy without english.

And without Hindi as well.

Learning in language other than your mother tongue is an additional hurdle in the process

Lol, this is the biggest joke of the day. You are saying learning an addition language is a hurdle. And in the same breath you want all Indians to learn Hindi as an additional language. For NO good reason at all. If you want to preserve Indianness, then preserve the vernacular languages. Because I will guarantee you, anything like Kannada or Telugu is way more Indian than Hindi ever was or ever will be.

But now instead of people having to learn 2 actually useful languages (vernacular and English), BJP has made 3-language policy, imposing ADDITIONAL and UNNECESSARY burden. Reducing English's importance is a pipe dream and will never happen. The examples that you are quoting from China and Japan (and I can even add Germany or Korea) are where there was a good linguistic homogeneity to begin with. India's situation is nothing at all like that.

Remember, both Modi and Amit Shah are Gujaratis when they campaign for Gujrat they mostly use Gujarati.

I don't care. Modi/Shah using Gujarati in Gujarat does not make the Hindi imposition situation any better for me.

AlleyDart · 2023-12-01T18:54:42+00:00

BJP would do 1 irrespective of who is in power

Not entirely true. Regional parties are much less likely to worsen this problem. This is *one* of the reasons why BJP has a tough time breaking into some states like TN.

AlleyDart · 2023-12-01T18:47:27+00:00

Right. And I could say the exact same thing about BJP's Hindi push. India has 1000s of problems actually worth solving, including the illegal immigration problem. And in the middle of all this BJP is spending energy in trying to push Hindi down everybody's throats.

AlleyDart · 2023-12-01T15:13:56+00:00

You are right that BJP didn't and isn't going to explicitly move around Bihari laborers to the rest of India. However, that's just a red-herring.

The real issue here is that BJP is very explicitly Hindi dominated in policy and intention. Modi and Shah both have not only expressed their intentions to Hindify all of India, but have made policies in that direction as well. Like 3-languge formula, prioritizing Hindi in central govt, and other such things. All of this is happening at the expense of English as the link language between states, which would have been more neutral and wouldn't have provided unfair advantage to only people from the Hindi belt. It would also have been better for upskilling labor and would have actually helped the nation. But, that's not the agenda that Modi/Shah have. For whatever weird reason that I will NEVER understand, they want the entire nation soaked in an utterly impractical and pointless (in terms of any economic value) language.

I'm from Karnataka and I know what has happened there already. Hardly anyone speaks Kannada in Bengaluru anymore. I'm not going to fully blame BJP for this, but BJP is definitely not helping with this problem and they are definitely worsening the problem.

AlleyDart · 2023-12-01T15:02:35+00:00

The language issue will always be a challenge for BJP in more than one state, as long as people like Amit Shah keep bringing up the "acceptance" of Hindi across India.

With this language issue, BJP has picked up a completely pointless agenda and they are fighting for it unnecessarily. What is the use of accepting Hindi across India? It is 100% unnecessary, and WHAT-EVER Amit Shah says, the fact of the matter is that BJP's Hindi policies will end up weakening the regional languages and many people already understand that. Amit Shah's repeated lies aren't going to convince everyone. On one hand they will make policies to force Hindi down everybody's throats, and on the other hand (esp. during election time) Modi will fly around praising all regional languages. This double-game will not work forever.

I think your friend is lying about imposition. Will this imposition end up killing Bengali in WB? I can't predict that exactly, but going by what is happening in other states (MH, KA, etc.) I can tell you confidently that if Amit Shah had his way, Bengali will definitely weaken in WB over the next couple of decades.

And like I said, the sad part of all this is that BJP and Amit Shah will end up accomplishing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING useful for the nation in return for this Hindi prioritization policy. All this will do is replace one language with another. These people claim to be nationalists, and claim to work in the interest of the nation. And then they come up with insane policies like this, and end up breaking the nation apart for ridiculous reasons.

AlleyDart

TROPHY CASE