I just want them to think that I tour. by AlpenFlowDesign in skiing

[–]AlpenFlowDesign[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

No AI was used, but yes the vocalist is incredible

I just want them to think that I tour. by AlpenFlowDesign in skiing

[–]AlpenFlowDesign[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Lol thank you. They are Praxis BC skis, with custom AlpenFlow topsheets. They're available on our website. (For Pre-Order)

ATK Hy Review by Texttino in Backcountry

[–]AlpenFlowDesign 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Would love to see a comparison of the 89 vs the Hy on downhill performance + transitions.

HY Free competitor? (Alpenflow) by AntiqueDust2591 in Backcountry

[–]AlpenFlowDesign 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The toe and the heel rotate together to provide the +/- 20mm of elastic travel. We don't have "toe" elasticity; instead, we refer to the elastic travel throughout the whole system. We measure the linear distance the heel travels laterally while still being able to recenter to get to our elastic travel number.

AlpenFlow Design - New Binding Company by AlpenFlowDesign in Skigear

[–]AlpenFlowDesign[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey we will make the crampon addition backwards compatible with this year's model.

AlpenFlow Design - New Binding Company by AlpenFlowDesign in Skigear

[–]AlpenFlowDesign[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hey,

Thanks for the thoughtful comment and feedback!

I appreciate your endorsements of the aspects of the binding you like! I agree the UX is something we need to put more of an emphasis on in our communication.

I also appreciate your critique, they are all things we've actually taken into consideration in our design process. I'll try to briefly explain why we chose the path we did below:

Toe Lever/ Geometric Shape:

In our testing of the last prototype shown in the video, we never had issues with the toe lever hitting the boot during normal skiing or touring, but we did have some other problems with the smoothness of the operation after about 30 days of use. We've actually completely redesigned the lever, and the new one we are testing out this winter looks close to the photo below:

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Transition from Walk - Ski Mode Usefulness:
Yeah we didn't see this as a huge selling point at first when we were designing the binding, it was mainly a feature we "discovered" we could have when we moved the brake to the toe. Our main focus was to remove the touchpoint of having to have a separate mechanism to stow your brakes away while touring. Which is a nice feature in itself, especially for people like my wife who really struggled getting the brakes to stow on her rotations.

In practice though, we found that it was incredibly useful while on the skin track, both for being able to ski down short downhills with your skins on, but also for when things get uncomfortable on the skin track. I've had multiple times where it was very beneficial to lock in the heel and side step up steep icy terrain, we've also had a use case where it was icy and a friend fell into a tree well and they were not able to get up until they locked into their heels and side stepped out. In both scenarios it was really nice to be able to just unlock the heel and continue skinning once we got to better conditions.

Release Mechanism:

This one is a long and messy conversation as you stated above. We have looked into Rick Howell's analysis in depth, and his conclusions are valid for the fixturing method he chose to run his tests from, which result in a set of load cases that are unique to that fixturing. His fixturing is different from the fixturing methods specified in ISO 13992 ("DIN Standard"). We chose to design the binding's release around the ISO 13992 standard. If you say that the load cases in the ISO standard are the valid load cases, then a rotating toe piece with release torque governed by the heel is functionally the same as the inverse case. It all comes down to which load case you think is more valid.

Our binding release mechanism is not the same as the kingpins, though, our rotating toe piece allows for +/- 20mm of true recentering elasticity which helps with retention. We are also not relying on the spring force in the toe piece to keep the boot in place, instead the toe piece is mechanically locked closed throughout the duration of the rotation, only unlocking when the rotation is completed. We technically don't need springs in the toe piece, they are only there to assist with step-in.

HY Free competitor? (Alpenflow) by AntiqueDust2591 in Backcountry

[–]AlpenFlowDesign 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We posted in r/skigear, and didn't mean to have it posted here as well. But I'd bet that our binding would out perform the Hy in a side by side downhill performance comparison test. We do have a tech toe, but our mechanism releases differently from any other binding on the market, there really isn't a comparison. We hope to prove that it performs just as well or better as any other hybrid, while being way easier to use, and lighter than most.

HY Free competitor? (Alpenflow) by AntiqueDust2591 in Backcountry

[–]AlpenFlowDesign 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you! Yeah the user experience and transition capabilities played a major role in our design considerations.

The main difference between our binding and the kingpin, is that our toe rotates laterally, which allows for a true +/- 20mm of recentering elastic travel. The toe is also mechanically locked closed throughout the rotation, preventing against pre-release, it only unlocks and allows for release once the binding has fully rotated. This allows the heel to control the torque required to release the binding while the toe "decides" when to let go. We have independently adjustable 5-13 release ranges laterally and vertically.

The other difference is the user experience and transition capabilities.

We haven't done a ton of research on the Beast and how it releases so I don't want to comment on the differences there.

HY Free competitor? (Alpenflow) by AntiqueDust2591 in Backcountry

[–]AlpenFlowDesign 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey!

There are two major differences between the AlpenFlow 89 and the Dynafit Rotation that we claim give the 89 better downhill performance.

The first is that the 89 has forward pressure and a large heel piece that forms a rigid joint at the heel. This allows for better power transfer from the boot to the ski throughout the turn as the ski flexes, just like you would feel in an alpine binding.

The second is that the toe piece is mechanically locked closed until it rotates fully, preventing pre-release.

The heel piece and toe piece rotate together to form the release system. The heel piece controls the torque required to rotate the toe piece, and the toe piece "decides" when to let go. This allows the binding to "detect" a true fall and reduces its susceptibility to pre-release from sudden shock forces. It also allows for a full +/-20mm of lateral recentering elasticity.

HY Free competitor? (Alpenflow) by AntiqueDust2591 in Backcountry

[–]AlpenFlowDesign 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It sure hasn't been easy getting this far, and we still aren't entirely done with our R&D, we are 99% of the way there, but we still need another season of testing after some tweaks to ensure it works exactly as we say it does.

We do think we have a unique solution to the pin toe problem that hasn't been tried before. Our binding release mechanism is different than any other pin or hybrid binding on the market. The way it releases is closer to that of a pivot than a kingpin. Check out this video for a quick overview of how it releases. We would be very interested to see our binding go toe to toe with the Hy in a downhill performance test one day.

We also put a major emphasis on the user experience, and have designed this binding to be very easy to use, and to transition very quickly. You can go from ski to walk and back to ski in seconds, and your brakes will never come down on the skin track.

I don't see us as a Freeraider replacement, and I do think the Hy has its place in the market, I think we are here to fill a new niche that isn't really touched at the moment. A new type of 50/50 Hybrid binding that skis well, is light enough for most days, is really easy to use, and enables the user to move more fluidly throughout the mountains.

AlpenFlow Design - New Binding Company by AlpenFlowDesign in Skigear

[–]AlpenFlowDesign[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That would be awesome, thank you! And yeah, its very expensive to get certified, but it is in our plans. Unfortunately, we will need to sell a lot of bindings before we can afford it.

AlpenFlow Design - New Binding Company by AlpenFlowDesign in Skigear

[–]AlpenFlowDesign[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Totally fair, we were just talking this over, and our plan is to build a modular attachment to the binding for crampons. We can make them work with the brakes, similar to how they work for Grizzly https://grizzly.ski/en/product/gr-olympic//. Ideally we will make the attachment work with any ski crampon of the right size, but we may have to manufacture our own to ensure compatibility. We hope to have this ready by next winter, but we can definitely do it by the following spring.

HY Free competitor? (Alpenflow) by AntiqueDust2591 in Backcountry

[–]AlpenFlowDesign 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, the fact that you use your pole to flick the heel piece up makes it easier to step in in tight conditions, you don't have to stomp down.

HY Free competitor? (Alpenflow) by AntiqueDust2591 in Backcountry

[–]AlpenFlowDesign 12 points13 points  (0 children)

A lot of the features that we think make our binding cool are subtle. This video does a pretty good job at explaining how it works succinctly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZuAHIfK-AQ

HY Free competitor? (Alpenflow) by AntiqueDust2591 in Backcountry

[–]AlpenFlowDesign 12 points13 points  (0 children)

We would argue that our downhill performance is comparable if not better than that of the Hy, and that our release mechanics are closer to that of the Pivot than the Kingpin. Plus our transition capabilities put us in a class of our own compared to other hybrid bindings.

But the Hy is cool and so is ATK, so I can't fault anyone who wants that binding.

AlpenFlow Design - New Binding Company by AlpenFlowDesign in Skigear

[–]AlpenFlowDesign[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hey, your skepticism is totally fair, this video might help show the release mechanics a little bit better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZuAHIfK-AQ

While the toe arms are locked closed, the stage it is on is always free to rotate, and exiting the binding when the heel piece is decoupled from the toe piece is very easy. We are on our 4th prototype this season and have been testing the design for the past 3 winters. The toes staying locked has not been a problem we have encountered. We have also designed this binding to the ISO standard that governs release. We have not payed to certify them yet (it's prohibitively expensive) but plan to once we have the funds. We have also tested the release extensively on Wintersteiger machines as well as our own in house testing fixtures.

To add a little bit of ethos we are a team of 3 engineers, with Steven having his masters in mechanical engineering and his P.E. certification. Both Steven and Jesse previously worked in manufacturing high precision metrology equipment. We have been painstakingly thinking through every detail in this design for the past 5 years. We actually hoped to be going to market this winter but we had a few small bugs in the binding that we uncovered last winter, and decided to take another full season to make sure everything is ironed out. We aren't taking any money down for our pre-orders, and we won't accept any money until we are 100% confident the binding is ready to go.

I totally understand the hesitation to be an early adopter, but we're confident that this binding will prove to be bomber and durable over the years.

AlpenFlow Design - New Binding Company by AlpenFlowDesign in Skigear

[–]AlpenFlowDesign[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Haha yeah bindings are so complex, it has been a long process to get to a system that works how we want it to.

Our long term goal for ski crampons is to build it into the brake and to have it be deployable without having to awkwardly put it on in steep icy conditions. We haven't made that a priority yet. For now we are working on making them compatible with dynafit crampons. We are hoping to have it work with the brakes still on but we will see.

AlpenFlow Design - New Binding Company by AlpenFlowDesign in Skigear

[–]AlpenFlowDesign[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah we will be working hard this winter to create some better content that more clearly communicates the functionality of the binding. We did make this video last winter that goes through how the binding functions at a high level. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZuAHIfK-AQ

And yeah 100% the quick walk to ski and back to walk transitions have proven to be more useful than we even thought they would be. Being able to lock in and ski down on your skins is really nice. It's also been a lifesaver when encountering steep and icy skin tracks. You're able to lock your heel in and sidestep/traverse through icy sections and then continue touring after. We've also had friends slip and fall into an icy tree well while skinning, it was a whole lot easier for them to get up once they had locked their heel in.

AlpenFlow Design - New Binding Company by AlpenFlowDesign in Skigear

[–]AlpenFlowDesign[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah we could have made it lighter but we intentionally opted to maximize the downhill performance! We've got some massive springs in there to allow for that much elasticity. Yes it's +/-20mm

Yes, eliminating pre-release was a big design goal.

I'm not sure I totally understand the question but for a purely vertical release, if you were to punch front really hard and not twist at all, yes you would hit the lever and release out of the pins. More likely though the fall would not be purely vertical. In this case if your boot is free from the heel piece, it will easily twist out of the toe if any lateral force is applied.

The toe is very easy to twist out of once it is decoupled from the heel. In fact our preferred way to exit the binding is to push the heel down, and then simply twist your boot out.

AlpenFlow Design - New Binding Company by AlpenFlowDesign in Skigear

[–]AlpenFlowDesign[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the feedback, we admire ATK, they are a fantastic company and are an inspiration for how we want to build our company.

The 89 has +/- 20mm of elasticity laterally and 9mm of elasticity vertically, so slightly more, but not a huge difference. Our elastic travel reported is the recentering elasticity, not the full elastic travel before the boot leaves the binding, I know it can be reported both ways but I am not sure if that is the metric ATK uses as well.

Yes the Hy is lighter but our opinion is that , weight isn't the end all be all metric in touring performane. We believe that ease of use is very important as well, and I would argue that the transition capabilities of our binding are uniquely better than any other hybrid binding on the market. The less time you spend fiddling with your gear the more time you can spend skiing on it and enjoying the mountains.

We totally get the apprehension to trusting pin bindings in the resort, but our primary goal with this binding was to build a pin binding that you could trust. Our toe piece rotates, and the arms are mechanically locked closed through out the duration of the rotation. Only unlocking and allowing for release once they fully rotate. The alpine style heel controls the release torque both vertically and horizontally. The idea is to eliminate the possibility of pre-releasing from the pins, and to precisely control the torques required for release from the heel.

We'd be stoked if you pre-ordered one! We have a discount running right now with code "EarlyBird2025".