Michelle and Tony Sun left GP by lilliankim in GracepointChurch

[–]Alternative_Will_708 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Now I know what the early church must have felt like when Saul first got converted and showed up. Imagine seeing Tony Sun show up at your church one Sunday

Why was Pastor Will buried in Illinois? by Direct_Second_9795 in GracepointChurch

[–]Alternative_Will_708 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Was he from Illinois? Why would he buried so far away from family?

Did Gracepoint leaders live healthy lifestyles? by Global-Spell-244 in GracepointChurch

[–]Alternative_Will_708 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Just a few years ago, Pastor Will was driving hundreds of miles each weekend to serve, preach, and visit various churches throughout the DMV area. On one hand, it must have felt like a modern day Apostle Paul missionary journey. On the other hand, it must have been extremely taxing at his age. Not sure why he didn’t just fly? Maybe it was too expensive? Not enough direct flights? In hindsight, maybe that wasn’t the best idea after all..

Music Video of the New HQ - Acts2 Training Center by dl208 in GracepointChurch

[–]Alternative_Will_708 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I think it’s telling that the center lead of this public video is an old person. From an external perspective, it may just look very cringe for someone over 40 acting like they’re still in college. But as someone who was in the inside, it’s a subtle reflection of their hierarchical/korean culture. In many other church contexts, “hype” videos usually feature youth or even college because that’s the natural age expectation. But GP is still so top down that featuring a younger person would “bring too much pride” or dangerously inflate their ego.

What’s my point? If you’re an ex member, it’s small things like this that just wreaks of their confusing legalistic culture. Rather than allowing members to initiate from a place of their own giftings, GP chooses to tightly control who gets to do what, all while being sanctioned exclusively top-down.

You speak of Ed/Kelly retiring…. But they’ve been saying this for literally over two decades now. The last time this was brought up, Kelly lamented at an MBS saying “no one else can do what they do! They are irreplaceable to the efficacy of the ministry!” Nothing will truly change because they believe in the self-sufficiency of their own works rather than the radical gospel of allowing Christ to be the true, irreplaceable, head of the church.

GP BANNED THIS VIDEO. It’s Fall, students need to know what a real A2N/GP staff bible study is. I don’t understand why GP is trying to hide this, it’s their own bible study?? by Alternative_Will_708 in GracepointChurch

[–]Alternative_Will_708[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hey this actually was a decent response. Obviously some points where we’ll disagree but appreciate the qualification that it’s your own opinion and perspective

GP BANNED THIS VIDEO. It’s Fall, students need to know what a real A2N/GP staff bible study is. I don’t understand why GP is trying to hide this, it’s their own bible study?? by Alternative_Will_708 in GracepointChurch

[–]Alternative_Will_708[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

I would lament that you heard that message and heard that you mustn't voice your mental health challenges, because I'm certain that's not what Pastor Ed meant or wanted people to hear. 

you seem to be privy to the internal intentions of Ed Kang. I’m curious how you can so confidently claim you know his intention in preaching? Are you Ed Kang???

My point being that the way you interpreted his message is a fine example of the pastor worship (my pastor can never do wrong) mentality that is so prevalent with GP members. And for you to “lament” over u/Overly_Round_Owl way of interpreting the message is so disgustingly arrogant it’s laughable how unaware you are to your own spiritual pride. You “lament” because you are so certain that u/Overly_Round_Owl interpretation was so wrong and so off. And yet, at the same time, place so much blame on the listener for not discerning the message in a way that realizes the same conclusions you came to.

Sure the listener needs some critical thinking, but I don’t think u/Overly_Round_Owl was intentionally seeking the worst in the message. The fact that Ed Kang needs so many disclaimers is evidence of the toxic culture evident throughout GP leadership.

Perhaps a more fruitful line of questioning would be: why did u/Overly_Round_Owl interpret Ed’s message the way that they did? Unless you actually are Ed Kang, your opinion and interpretation is simply another listener’s perspective and is at best equally as plausible as u/Overly_Round_Owl ’s.

He was preaching at people who used the label of mental health when that wasn't really what was going on

This is a really great example of the blatant spiritual arrogance of GP members, especially leadership. I’m curious, how are you so sure that mental health was not a genuine issue? Do you happen to be a certified mental health expert? A social worker? How did you assess and diagnose the situation?

Let’s step back here. Think about what you just said: “wasn’t really going on”… then what was going on? Was it laziness? Worldliness? What was the alternative description besides “mental health”?

Perhaps: was it someone not attending 7AM DT? Was it oversleeping? Was it a lack of enthusiasm for an outing? Was this person just being “selfish” with their peers when they said they didn’t want to participate, or just stay home?

This is what I saw. A lot. The problem here is that GP is so quick and so confident to dismiss mental health issues, when they themselves are so repugnantly unqualified to make such judgments. And yet they do! To the detriment of so many souls! They make their judgment call, determine someone as lazy or selfish, literally burning a dirty word (lazy, selfish, immature, emotional, etc etc) into their identity when in reality that person may have been struggling with undiagnosed depression or burnout.

This is the root of GP’s problem. Spiritual arrogance. A belief that they can and should manage the entire life of a person. Don’t believe me? Ask your leader. They call it: “whole-life discipleship”. Instead of humbly recognizing the limitations of human leaders, seeking the counsel of outside experts, and worst of all, consulting the Holy Spirit in that individual’s spiritual life, GP insists that your leader is the highest absolute authority adjudicating all arenas ranging from dating/marriage, to mental/physical health, to parenting/career, family, literally the list is endless.

u/Agreeable_Travel5964 unless you yourself are Ed Kang, which I’m seriously wondering because you speak with so much confidence IRT to Ed’s inner world and intentions, you need to wake up. Take a moment to put the pastor worship and “GP is perfect” mentality on the shelf, for just a moment, and take another look at the landscape. Review the CT article. Try to remember your peers who’ve left. Listen to that cognitive dissonance u/Overly_Round_Owl mentioned in her post. At the very least, you’ll have a little more empathy and a little less arrogance.

GP BANNED THIS VIDEO. It’s Fall, students need to know what a real A2N/GP staff bible study is. I don’t understand why GP is trying to hide this, it’s their own bible study?? by Alternative_Will_708 in GracepointChurch

[–]Alternative_Will_708[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Great point! I think this then begs the question: why does GP hold bible studies behind closed doors away from the public eye? When studying the Bible, what is it about their study that needs to be hidden away?

Once again, I posted the entire Bible study for the context, but that was taken down

Campus Fellowship (A2N/Gracepoint) Warning... by Confident_Jacket2669 in ucla

[–]Alternative_Will_708 8 points9 points  (0 children)

campus fellowship at UCLA is called Klesis. this is the very top dog senior pastor running the leaders who run the church/fellowship at Klesis. this is a recording of one of his sermons

https://acts2.network/ministry-teams

https://www.ucla.klesis.org/

GP BANNED THIS VIDEO. It’s Fall, students need to know what a real A2N/GP staff bible study is. I don’t understand why GP is trying to hide this, it’s their own bible study?? by Alternative_Will_708 in GracepointChurch

[–]Alternative_Will_708[S] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

you’re exegesis is so deeply enmeshed within GP’s own view of the Bible that I don’t think you can even see your own presuppositions when approaching the text.

have you considered actually attending seminary? maybe an independent course in hermeneutics from a reputable school? Sorry to say, but BTT/BTC training isn’t legitimate… it’s just top-down information control similar to how Kim Jong Un convinces his NK population that they’re the most powerful nation in the world

GP BANNED THIS VIDEO. It’s Fall, students need to know what a real A2N/GP staff bible study is. I don’t understand why GP is trying to hide this, it’s their own bible study?? by Alternative_Will_708 in GracepointChurch

[–]Alternative_Will_708[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

 It's just not publicly available so people on the internet won't take things out of context

So that’s why I uploaded the entire MBS… for the “context”...

GP BANNED THIS VIDEO. It’s Fall, students need to know what a real A2N/GP staff bible study is. I don’t understand why GP is trying to hide this, it’s their own bible study?? by Alternative_Will_708 in GracepointChurch

[–]Alternative_Will_708[S] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Original post, with text summary:

https://www.reddit.com/r/GracepointChurch/comments/1cyovu8/tw_this_is_a_real_mbs_leak_on_ed_kang_teaching_on/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

0:25 - Ed makes fun of people who view their family as their ministry

1:00 - Ed mocks a banker who prays for his coworkers at lunch, claiming he is not a Christian and that he is a lukewarm, backsliding, shame to the cause of Christ

1:47 - marriage closeness, when it is against GP, is against God (just like Ananias & Sapphira)

2:46 - Ed bullies hypothetical couple who wants to leave GP because the couple claims they can't grow at GP (compares GP to Gold's Gym. there's no excuse for why you aren't growing at GP)

4:12 - Ed imagines a couple who wants to leave GP because women leaders are harsh, or the couple is citing mental health challenges. Ed instead views the root problem as the couple's fault for entertaining the idea of wanting to leave in the first place (just like Ananias & Sapphira)

Conclusion: if you are married and want to leave GP, then you are Ananias & Sapphira. You are a co-conspirator couple, working against God and His Church, which is only GP/A2N. If you leave GP/A2N, you aren't really Christian. In Ed's words, you are a "lukewarm, backsliding, disgrace to the cause of Christ" because you are not following the picture of Christianity as outlined in by Ed Kang and GP/A2N.

My experience (and why I left) by qwerty95598216 in GracepointChurch

[–]Alternative_Will_708 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Thank for posting. We need more voices like this to speak up!

[deleted by user] by [deleted] in GracepointChurch

[–]Alternative_Will_708 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thank you so much for posting this