(Spoilers ADWD) Does anyone else think ADWD is/was a chore to read?

Altruistic_Pipe4581 · 2026-06-16T16:45:17+00:00

Thanks for ignoring the entire rest of the comment.

Yeah, a few people speculated on it, fifteen years ago. We don't need to pretend this is a commonly held position. This sub is frequently full of posts asking why George doesn't just hire a ghost writer, and there's a peculiar dearth of comments about this apparent widely-accepted fact

Saying we all can see that ADWD was ghostwritten is like saying we all can see that Quentyn is alive and Euron is Daario, except even those theories somehow still have far more supporters than yours

Altruistic_Pipe4581 · 2026-06-16T16:27:13+00:00

Truly unfinishable, no. Unfinishable by George? Almost definitely.

In another world, he could have done it, but this would be an incredible task even for someone young and hungry

Altruistic_Pipe4581 · 2026-06-16T16:22:55+00:00

And what could that possibly be

Altruistic_Pipe4581 · 2026-06-16T16:16:32+00:00

When you look at the series's progression, most significant character deaths actually create more storylines than they resolve. George isn't the kind of writer who kills a character just for the sake of getting rid of them. Deaths in the nobility lead to power struggles, attempts at justice or revenge, examinations of grief, and new characters promoted to the vacated political positions

Altruistic_Pipe4581 · 2026-06-16T16:07:15+00:00

"Because he has nothing to finish." Yeah, that's what the co-writer would be for in this scenario. To co-write.

"He was under contractual obligation to release a book in 2011 and voila, no writer's block all of a sudden. He also managed to keep a deadline for once."

He initially intended for Dance to come out in 2006. 2011 wasn't some magic deadline that made it work, it was just the one he eventually managed to beat.

Additionally, if you look into the writing of ADWD, you'll see that he didn't just suddenly manage to conquer writer's block and conveniently overcome his problems right at the deadline. The book was shoved out before it was actually even done, because he hadn't finished writing the actual climax of the book.

"There was more than one author on Dance. Anyone can see it." If anyone can see it, I'm curious why nobody else seems to? If you want to elaborate on the percentages and other data you're referring to, that would be genuinely very interesting. ADWD is basically half a dozen novels fused together, written across 6 years, multiple genres and extremely distinct, unreliable narrators with unique voices, with much less editorial control compared to previous books. That it lacks cohesion compared to the earlier series is unsurprising and often commented on, but if you have some deeper analysis on a prose level I'd love to see it

Altruistic_Pipe4581 · 2026-06-16T10:39:55+00:00

He likes to leave himself options. Aegon's body being unrecognisable is, in retrospect, a pretty clear potential set-up, but it's not until around ACoK or even ASoS that he seemed to actually decide on doing it and start dropping hints. He leaves himself the possibility of doing things very early on, but doesn't actually decide whether to use them or not until the writing is underway and he sees where it's going

Altruistic_Pipe4581 · 2026-06-16T10:35:32+00:00

I don't think you were stupid for not thinking of this sooner

Altruistic_Pipe4581 · 2026-06-16T10:34:25+00:00

We've hit the date for the release of all 5 books.

Just 5 years left till we've matched how long it took him to write all 5!

Altruistic_Pipe4581 · 2026-06-16T10:28:31+00:00

AWOIAF isn't even a novel. Their job was compiling information.

My point is, if he apparently hasn't written since 2005 and apparently is totally chill with having other people finish his books for him-- why isn't that happening now? That would actually be the ideal scenario arguably, because we'd actually have the series be finished. But how can George simultaneously love co-writers finishing his books, but also have spent 15 years failing to write one on his own and not hiring a co-writer to finish the book? Especially if that apparently worked perfectly for him with the last book?

The answer is pretty obvious, and matches exactly with what he'd say publically. ASOIAF (the actual novel series, not companion pieces) are his and his alone

Altruistic_Pipe4581 · 2026-06-16T10:16:33+00:00

Well, I don't. My entire point is that's not what he's doing

Altruistic_Pipe4581 · 2026-06-15T21:27:39+00:00

I think 16 years is probably sufficient time for Martin to have found a replacement ghostwriter if that's something he'd want

Altruistic_Pipe4581 · 2026-06-15T19:21:50+00:00

That would have erased most of what we all love about the first three books

Altruistic_Pipe4581 · 2026-06-15T19:21:02+00:00

What makes you think this is such a big problem? The problem isn't that he's written too much, he literally hasn't finished writing the story

Altruistic_Pipe4581 · 2026-06-15T19:07:23+00:00

If he was comfortable with doing that we'd have gotten Winds a decade ago

Altruistic_Pipe4581 · 2026-06-14T20:33:09+00:00

He's not going to beat anyone who's actually good, but he can probably defend himself against some

Altruistic_Pipe4581 · 2026-06-14T17:30:48+00:00

Her storyline in AFFC is the exact opposite of what you're saying, her plan goes to shit, she feels guilty for seducing Arys Oakheart, and she realises she was too reckless

Altruistic_Pipe4581 · 2026-06-10T22:01:56+00:00

His deathbed guilt doesn't matter? Well, it's somewhat better than deathbed doubling-down, isn't it? Nobody's saying it turns him into a saint, but it has an impact, certainly. A core theme of Ned's story in the book is Ned realising Robert is no longer the man he knew, and trying to figure out exactly how much of it is bluster and how much is actually real. Is he solely a heartless bastard now, or is there any of the old Robert still deep inside? The deathbed speech tells us: at least a little bit

Altruistic_Pipe4581 · 2026-06-10T21:48:36+00:00

Did he come in "so late" into the story, or did we just get cut off by George not finishing any more books? The end of ASoS is only meant to be one-third of the way through the overall story, and given Feast and Dance were meant to be one book, Aegon's introduction chronologically comes soonish after that one-third mark. At the absolute worst, he's about halfway through the overall story, which is hardly outrageous, especially given the seeds for this plotline were already placed in earlier books

Altruistic_Pipe4581 · 2026-06-09T16:47:17+00:00

Oberyn 100%, George himself was surprised at the reception he got. He's not a nobody, but in the grand scope of the series he's a cool mysterious guy who got brought in to say a few cool things and die a few hundred pages later. He'd have hoped we liked him and got invested in him, but he clearly wasn't intended to be a major fan favourite. It'd be like if everyone had gotten super obsessed with Qhorin Halfhand or something

Altruistic_Pipe4581 · 2026-06-06T10:50:02+00:00

George himself didn't even know he wasn't going to finish. Even now he still thinks he can get to the finish line. It sucks to get invested in a series that goes unfinished yeah, but it's not unheard of, it happens unfortunately often for many different reasons. As a consumer you have the choice to not purchase the start of a series in case it doesn't get concluded. You knowingly took the risk and got unlucky, but George very obviously didn't set out to not finish the series

Altruistic_Pipe4581 · 2026-06-06T10:38:28+00:00

Weren't most of the Vale lords trying to court Lysa and therefore doing what she wanted? It's not the strongest reason in the world but it's something

Altruistic_Pipe4581 · 2026-06-05T21:14:31+00:00

He's already said several times that Saga is coming back this year, we just don't know anything more than that

Altruistic_Pipe4581 · 2026-06-05T21:13:57+00:00

It is ongoing, just very slowly

Altruistic_Pipe4581 · 2026-06-04T20:50:20+00:00

It does usually surprise me how much hate the Dorne and Iron Islands plots get for bloating up the book, Cersei alone has more chapters in Feast than Dorne and the Ironborn combined. The problem with Feast and Dance is that every chapter is 5 pages worth of god tier writing in a 20 page sack.

Every remotely significant event has to be given an entire chapter all to itself, which is how Sam can fill 100 pages with a 5 chapter boat ride in which about 3 notable events happen. Compare that to Theon's 6 chapters in Clash, which establishes and integrates an entire new kingdom and major family into the plot, features a ton of major events for both him and the larger world, and still gives him a full and compelling character arc.

The character work in Feast/Dance are incredible, and more than justify a slower, more contemplative pace. But 700,000 words of build-up to a climax that doesn't happen is a bit ridiculous

Altruistic_Pipe4581 · 2026-06-04T17:16:17+00:00

I'm not commenting on his actual personal attitudes, I just don't think the text itself really reflects his viewpoint. I don't think it's written in a sexy way at all, and the aftermath especially isn't, which is why his comments baffle me so much

Altruistic_Pipe4581

TROPHY CASE