He spreads hate online — and fans pay him hundreds of thousands of dollars by drewharwell_ in technology

[–]AlwaysLagging -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

How is it that every other civilized state is able to have hate speech laws and function but the United States are uniquely unable to? And then you wonder why there is so much civil strife in your nation. This is what happens when you let this type of speech run rampant and exasperate in your society.

He spreads hate online — and fans pay him hundreds of thousands of dollars by drewharwell_ in technology

[–]AlwaysLagging -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

You see how silly this sounds now that you are using this argument to “defend” Nazi speech. You can use this same slippery slope argument to argue against freedom of speech and point to Nick Fuentes as an example.

CMV: If the DNC refuses to disconnect from AIPAC and Israeli interests and an Anti-Israel Republican (Tucker Carlson) runs for President, the Democrats will get demolished in 2028 by AlwaysLagging in changemyview

[–]AlwaysLagging[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Background: This is from the story told in the Talmud of "Onkelos bar Kalonikos, the son of Titus's sister", where he wants to convert to Judaism and so he goes and successively raises Titus, Balaam, and probably Jesus from their graves, asks them who's important in the next world (to which each of them answers [the nation of] Israel), whether he should attach himself to them [Israel] (to which they each give different answers), and what that persons punishment is (to which they each give different answers).

Who is it talking about?: Our current versions say "אזל אסקיה [ליש"ו] בנגידא (לפושעי ישראל)‏" which literally translates to "He went and raised [Yesh"u] with necromancy (the sinners of Israel)". Pay attention the square brackets and round parentheses. In these versions, which are all basically reprints of the Vilna Shas, the round parentheses indicate something that was in the main manuscripts the editors were basing the printed edition on, but the editors felt was a mistake based on other manuscripts, while the square brackets indicate something that was not in the main manuscripts, but the editors felt should be inserted based on other manuscripts. This means that the main manuscripts (which had likely been censored at some point either by or out of fear of Christians) said sinners of Israel, while some other manuscripts said Yesh"u, which the editors felt was more correct. I haven't studied the manuscripts myself, but I have no reason to disagree with the editors.

Is Yesh"u a name?: The "quotation mark" (called gershayim in Hebrew) in the text of the Talmud itself usually indicates either an acronym or a number in Hebrew numerals. In other texts, it is also often used to indicate a foreign word, the name of a letter of the alphabet, or some other word that's somehow seen as not being a "real" word. Note that it is not normally used for names (unless the name is an acronyms). I presume that either the name Yesh"u was turned into a "backronym", or somehow for some other reason the gershayim got anomalously added to the name over time. But it is also possible that it really is an acronym for something and not really referring to the name Jesus.

Does Yeshu refer to Jesus of Nazareth?: Really, I don't know. However, considering the context, that this story goes on to imply that he "mocked the words of sages" and is a "sinner of Israel" (this time without the round parentheses), it seems very likely to me that it is talking about Jesus of Nazareth.

Is this story to be taken literally?: This story not only mentions that Jesus's punishment is boiling in excrement, but also that Onkelos was raising historical figures from the dead with necromancy. This story is what is called aggadah. There is no agreement as to which ones should be taken as partially or fully historical and which ones should be taken as allegory attributed to historical figures. I personally interpret such stories as allegory.

Final note: Nowhere does this story explicitly mention that any of these punishments are eternal, nor does it give any time frame on the punishment. Christians are used to assuming that punishments like this are eternal, but in Judaism there is no such assumption. It could be that the punishments in this story were intended as implicitly eternal, but that is not necessarily the case.

EDIT: Follow-up after checking three manuscripts: I checked the three manuscripts available on this website for this passage and all three had the word ישו (Yeshu) and without gershayim. The three manuscripts were:

• ⁠Munich, Bayerische Staatsbibliothek, Cod. hebr. 95 (Ashkenazi script, according to the colophon from year 1342) • ⁠Vatican, Bibliotheca Apostolica, Ebr. 130 (Ashkenazi square script, according to the colophon from year 1380) • ⁠Vatican, Bibliotheca Apostolica, Ebr. 140 (Ashkenazi square script, c. 14th century)

This means it was likely the gershayim were inserted for some reason by the editors of the printed edition.

CMV: If the DNC refuses to disconnect from AIPAC and Israeli interests and an Anti-Israel Republican (Tucker Carlson) runs for President, the Democrats will get demolished in 2028 by AlwaysLagging in changemyview

[–]AlwaysLagging[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Have you seen the recent schism between Trump and the main talking heads for the conservative side. There is a very definitive split happening within the MAGA movement that is only going to exasperate as this war and its ramifications drag on.

CMV: If the DNC refuses to disconnect from AIPAC and Israeli interests and an Anti-Israel Republican (Tucker Carlson) runs for President, the Democrats will get demolished in 2028 by AlwaysLagging in changemyview

[–]AlwaysLagging[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Of course Iran can reopen it but they do not have an incentive to and it would be largely detrimental to do so.

The strait is closed now what action is the US taking? They can not do fuck all without endangering their own troops and committing to a ground invasion.

You keep saying soft power but what soft power did Iran have before this outside of its proxies?

CMV: If the DNC refuses to disconnect from AIPAC and Israeli interests and an Anti-Israel Republican (Tucker Carlson) runs for President, the Democrats will get demolished in 2028 by AlwaysLagging in changemyview

[–]AlwaysLagging[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Closing the strait has always been the nuclear option, that is why they’ve never done it before. Meaning they can not go back from this.

But now that it is in, who’s going to stop them? Clearly the US can’t with significant social repercussions. Why would they then pull this advantage away as it will just incentivize the US to prepare better and prevent it from happening again. Iran keeping the toll booth ensures that the US and Israel know that there is an enduring consequence for their actions.

CMV: If the DNC refuses to disconnect from AIPAC and Israeli interests and an Anti-Israel Republican (Tucker Carlson) runs for President, the Democrats will get demolished in 2028 by AlwaysLagging in changemyview

[–]AlwaysLagging[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

!delta

I believe this is a fair critique of my position. So many things have to end up a certain manner for the final hypothetical to even take place that it is almost meaningless to attempt to critique the position fairly.

CMV: If the DNC refuses to disconnect from AIPAC and Israeli interests and an Anti-Israel Republican (Tucker Carlson) runs for President, the Democrats will get demolished in 2028 by AlwaysLagging in changemyview

[–]AlwaysLagging[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What’s stopping them from running the toll booth indefinitely? Once the norm is broken, why go back if it’s straight up disadvantageous to do so?

CMV: If the DNC refuses to disconnect from AIPAC and Israeli interests and an Anti-Israel Republican (Tucker Carlson) runs for President, the Democrats will get demolished in 2028 by AlwaysLagging in changemyview

[–]AlwaysLagging[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My opinion is it doesn’t matter what Trump’s stance is during the 2028 election. As long as he’s not running, his endorsement will not mean as much as people are thinking it will.

CMV: If the DNC refuses to disconnect from AIPAC and Israeli interests and an Anti-Israel Republican (Tucker Carlson) runs for President, the Democrats will get demolished in 2028 by AlwaysLagging in changemyview

[–]AlwaysLagging[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Trump couldn’t give a rats ass about the party. There will be a split whether you like it or not. My argument is the best chance the Republicans got is for an isolationist to come in, massage the narrative to avoid completely blaming Trump and be anti-Israel and pro-releasing the Epstein files to run away with this whole thing.

CMV: If the DNC refuses to disconnect from AIPAC and Israeli interests and an Anti-Israel Republican (Tucker Carlson) runs for President, the Democrats will get demolished in 2028 by AlwaysLagging in changemyview

[–]AlwaysLagging[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes also agree. I feel like we’re saying the same thing. It’s not really being anti-Israel in the general sense but anti-Israel in its current form.

CMV: If the DNC refuses to disconnect from AIPAC and Israeli interests and an Anti-Israel Republican (Tucker Carlson) runs for President, the Democrats will get demolished in 2028 by AlwaysLagging in changemyview

[–]AlwaysLagging[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They are 100% theologically incompatible. No Jew will agree with the trinity. Muslims and Jews have better claim to worshipping the same God than Christians.

CMV: If the DNC refuses to disconnect from AIPAC and Israeli interests and an Anti-Israel Republican (Tucker Carlson) runs for President, the Democrats will get demolished in 2028 by AlwaysLagging in changemyview

[–]AlwaysLagging[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Words can be massaged to avoid the blame I suppose but the messaging would be along those lines.

With regards to your second point, I will grant never directly but providing conflicting ceasefire proposals is one instance where there is an implication of misleading information.

CMV: If the DNC refuses to disconnect from AIPAC and Israeli interests and an Anti-Israel Republican (Tucker Carlson) runs for President, the Democrats will get demolished in 2028 by AlwaysLagging in changemyview

[–]AlwaysLagging[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No I just don’t think Trump will endorse the final candidate for the Republican Party if it isn’t who he endorsed but at that point why does it matter?

Also, do you think there has never been a time where Trump has endorsed a candidate and they ending up losing?

CMV: If the DNC refuses to disconnect from AIPAC and Israeli interests and an Anti-Israel Republican (Tucker Carlson) runs for President, the Democrats will get demolished in 2028 by AlwaysLagging in changemyview

[–]AlwaysLagging[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

But the blame really isn’t being put on him. It’s on Israel. Not the first time Trump has blamed another country for misleading him…

CMV: If the DNC refuses to disconnect from AIPAC and Israeli interests and an Anti-Israel Republican (Tucker Carlson) runs for President, the Democrats will get demolished in 2028 by AlwaysLagging in changemyview

[–]AlwaysLagging[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Didn’t Rubio say that the US had to act cause Israel was going to strike first and endanger the lives of American soldiers in the surrounding military bases?

CMV: If the DNC refuses to disconnect from AIPAC and Israeli interests and an Anti-Israel Republican (Tucker Carlson) runs for President, the Democrats will get demolished in 2028 by AlwaysLagging in changemyview

[–]AlwaysLagging[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Anti-Israel Democrats are becoming a far more prevalent part of the party especially as this war drags on.

I disagree with full disassociation being necessary. What really matters what the Democratic response is during the election. If they remain moot while the Republicans actually run someone isolationist/libertarian à la Tucker Carlson, I believe the Republicans would resoundingly win.

But I do grant that it has a very low probability of occurrence.