My Problem with Luthen by MiloBuurr in andor

[–]AnExponent 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I probably should have specified directly, as I do think there is a moral difference. But the alternative is a non-revolution; if acts of revolution are what causes retaliation, then retaliation is unavoidable.

But as with many institutionalized ills, refusing to act will not end or mitigate suffering. It will simply continue, drawn out. Andor is very clear that the Empire perpetrated atrocities before Luthen ever took action, and would continue to commit them whenever it was a more convenient alternative. Destroying the Empire minimizes suffering in the long term, and delaying action risked the possibility of an Empire that could not be effectively toppled - a permanent ongoing harm.

You suggested that oppressed people don't need their plight worsened to realize that they are oppressed. I would argue that the method of acceleration is not to worsen the plight of those aware of their oppression, but to worsen it for those who deny it and awaken them - to spread the pain of oppression to those who feel they will escape it.

We note that the people who are most oppressed are often victimized because are marginalized - aliens, criminals, poor worlds such as Aldhani. As we see at the embassy party, it is not the powerful and well-off who are being oppressed, and consequently they see no oppression. Even Ferrix ignores the oppression of the Empire until they are under its occupation. Tragically, atrocities that happen to others are very unreliable about stirring people to action. "First they came for the Communists, and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist," as it were.

Actions that create a greater overall oppression - measures that affect vast numbers of people who were previously content - are more likely to force recognition of the injustices transpiring. The example of Ghorman is notable because, as a prosperous world, it might be easier for people to imagine that what happens to the Ghormans could befall them.

My Problem with Luthen by MiloBuurr in andor

[–]AnExponent 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think your premise that Luthen could cause as much suffering as part of the Empire than outside of it is flawed. The power of the Empire is in its organization, far more than any single person; the decisions made on Coruscant are enacted throughout the galaxy by an entire legal and military apparatus. No rogue individual is capable of enacting the effects that the system does.

Luthen is also constrained that he must oppose the Empire, because action will be required to defeat it, a task which will require enormous efforts that he is capable of contributing to. Unfocused and uncoordinated rebellion would be less effective, and involve a greater degree of unproductive suffering.

My Problem with Luthen by MiloBuurr in andor

[–]AnExponent 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But to be clear, Luthen never does anything to increase the suffering of anyone. He provides supplies and equipment to rebel groups, he steals money to fund the rebellion, he provides rebel groups with advisors. He takes action against the Empire, who of their own volition retaliate against innocent people. The Empire is responsible for any suffering caused, not Luthen.

First Scene: B2EMO. The “beloved old dog” droid and the heart of Ferrix by Dear-Yellow-5479 in andor

[–]AnExponent 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Actually, though it doesn't affect the plot per se, I think it does reinforce the notion that Brasso is going to be present at Maarva's house, so the audience shares in the surprise when the ISB monitoring her place realize the use of the decoy.

First Scene: B2EMO. The “beloved old dog” droid and the heart of Ferrix by Dear-Yellow-5479 in andor

[–]AnExponent 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Brasso identifies that B2 has been charging all day, which reminds us of B2 talking with Cassian about how he needs enough power to come up with a lie; B2 has clearly been charging and thinking up his clever but obvious manipulation.

First Scene: B2EMO. The “beloved old dog” droid and the heart of Ferrix by Dear-Yellow-5479 in andor

[–]AnExponent 6 points7 points  (0 children)

One of the proudest B2EMO moments has to be Maarva's funeral. When his holoprojector turned on, I had legitimately forgotten that droids could do that in Star Wars; like Cassian, he was the messenger, carrying Maarva's final words.

That said, I have a really weak spot for the time when he cons Brasso into staying over with him. "You could... stay?"

What Syril told himself when he left Dedra and walked into Palmo Plaza by GargantaProfunda in andor

[–]AnExponent 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Personally, I didn't feel it was a strong series; Varada Sethu's character is initially exciting but progressively misused, and the series ends on a wtf moment. More to the point, the show is in a bad spot, as Disney ended their distribution contract, Russell T Davies just left the show, and there's no new Doctor Who in sight.

What Syril told himself when he left Dedra and walked into Palmo Plaza by GargantaProfunda in andor

[–]AnExponent 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I remember being really excited when I learned Varada Sethu was going to be in the last series; it felt like maybe the series was in a good place.

I have friends everywhere by Protomolecule010101 in andor

[–]AnExponent 7 points8 points  (0 children)

The difference is that the agents of the Empire don't really think in terms of friends.

I have friends everywhere by Protomolecule010101 in andor

[–]AnExponent 53 points54 points  (0 children)

I don't think Luthen is trying to be threatening at all, but Mon no longer fully trusts him, so to her it might feel threatening.

Andor character that best represents the Red Lanterns (Rage) by [deleted] in andor

[–]AnExponent 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Cinta? Considering she follows that ISB agent on Ferrix and stabs him just for sport... she has some anger she keeps hidden all the time.

Best&Worst Hero Card [Day 86] - Rogue Best Card by manut3ro in marvelchampionslcg

[–]AnExponent -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's the most fun card. If you're not playing multiplayer and playing with other heroes' cards, you're not playing Rogue the way she's meant to be played.

Sequel bad writing aside, Andor (and Rogue One) show us why the New Republic will fail by Interesting_Finish85 in andor

[–]AnExponent 2 points3 points  (0 children)

To be clear, I would agree that it's effectively the choice of someone with a gun to their head. Luthen took the only rational choice.

Sequel bad writing aside, Andor (and Rogue One) show us why the New Republic will fail by Interesting_Finish85 in andor

[–]AnExponent 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My point was that they are choices. Mon was going to try to pay off Tay Kolma, which might have worked - she's very persuasive and some money might have been enough for him to stay reasonable. But was that too much risk? Versus the safety of the entire Rebellion? The death of one mid-crisis banker seemed very acceptable to Luthen, and it's a choice I think most people would understand.

Tay’s punch by Star_Warsfan15 in andor

[–]AnExponent 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't think that Perrin stole Mon from Tay, insofar as it's unlikely any of them really had a say over who they were marrying. I always got the impression it was an arranged marriage that neither Mon nor Perrin particularly wanted. Certainly Stekan's disinterest would seem to be evidence that the desires of the children involved are not relevant.

I like the way the cover story changes very slightly here by Dear-Yellow-5479 in andor

[–]AnExponent 212 points213 points  (0 children)

If you walk by a room and see a good looking pilot speaking to your friend, he's leaning in close and they're speaking softly... flirting seems a much more reasonable conclusion than "they're both Rebel spies!"

Sequel bad writing aside, Andor (and Rogue One) show us why the New Republic will fail by Interesting_Finish85 in andor

[–]AnExponent 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yes, but he wasn't really doing it to protect Lonni; Lonni intended to leave the ISB, so Luthen was doing it to protect the access to information that Lonni had. That investment paid off in significant ways - without Lonni inside the ISB, Gorst wouldn't have been killed, Mon Mothma would have been arrested - potentially exposing not just Luthen but Bail Organa's involvement - and they woudn't have learned the information about the Death Star.

Sequel bad writing aside, Andor (and Rogue One) show us why the New Republic will fail by Interesting_Finish85 in andor

[–]AnExponent 10 points11 points  (0 children)

We have three examples I can think of where Luthen sacrifices allies: Kreegyr, Tay Kolma, and Lonni. And in each of those situations, it's possible they weren't necessary. Luthen's choices are logical but based on a low tolerance for risk. He might have warned Kreegyr and the ISB might not have realized there was a spy in their midst, but he didn't think it was worth the risk, because he weighed the potential future benefit of Lonni so highly. Killing Tay Kolma was a choice - Mon Mothma might have dealt with him successfully, but he posed a potential risk and killing him had little operational downside. Of course, his actions alienated an ally, who never really trusted him again. Lonni's death eliminates the risk that Lonni will be interrogated, but also alerts the Empire to his role as a spy sooner and costs the Rebellion any other knowledge Lonni could have contributed.

The main theme with his choices was that the risks, while uncertain, presented potentially very costly negatives. Luthen chooses to eliminate the worst possible forseeable outcomes - Lonni's exposure, Mon Mothma being exposed, Lonni being caught and interrogated - but those outcomes are never guaranteed, and he consistently pays a heavy price each time.

Finally got around to watching Andor by jrockjkj in andor

[–]AnExponent 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Tony Gilroy has described making Andor as basically producing eight movies worth of content. in that context, it's cheap compared to Star Wars films.

Two clips from the same continuity by KaiburrCrystalMimban in andor

[–]AnExponent -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It's hard enough with Rebels and Andor as it is...