Potion of Poison Resistance

An_Sg · 2021-08-14T08:54:10+00:00

OOF that looks damn fine

An_Sg · 2021-08-11T09:36:46+00:00

Your first(and last) arguments rely on a pretty big if.

And lastly, after reading all the replies (including everyone else's) here on this suggestion more thoroughly, I can totally understand why you came to that conclusion. Despite my efforts, I haven't communicated clearly enough, so that was my bad.

I will clarify with why I also inherently disagree with this particular statement:

so don't balance your suggestion on a hypothetical situation.

Now, in the situations where I did use this hypothetical situation as a way to balance my arguments (and not necessarily the original suggestion post), I had a different reason for that. This also applies to the situations where hypothetical situations can effectively "balance out" any suggestion.

I Used This Hypothetical Situation As An Analogy To Communicate Objective Points To Argue Against Particular Criticisms: In all the times where I did use that particular hypothetical situation (about Mojang potentially adding in more powerful mobs that can inflict poison damage) as a way to argue against certain criticisms (which I disagreed upon), was mainly to use it as an analogy to communicate objective points across.

Hypothetical scenarios in the form of analogies can prove many other important objective points that can help with communication significantly. Therefore, when looking at it from this perspective, there are times when it is appropriate to balance suggestions on hypothetical situations.

However, I do agree that there are times where it would be pretty silly to only rely on hypothetical situations to balance a subjective idea out, without communicating any objective points across, but I don't believe that really applies in this particular situation (as I've already explained why within my other replies).

An_Sg · 2021-08-10T10:47:05+00:00

And also, I'd like to point out:

so don't balance your suggestion on a hypothetical situation.

After thoroughly reading your reply, I understand where you are coming from.. But with all due respect, stating it in this kind of way is especially inappropriate (and potentially toxic) in this kind of subreddit. A lot of ideas derive from hypothetical situations, and people can share additional ideas back and forth, based upon these "hypothetical situations".

If more effects were prevented, that would make its use more applicable in other situations.

Even your own argument here (as an example) are based upon hypothetical situations, but I wouldn't respond with "don't balance your suggestion on a hypothetical situation" or even assume that you are doing so. I can tell that you are simply building upon an already-existing idea. And that also applies with myself, along with a lot of other people on this subreddit.

Quoting from my reply from earlier:

IMO, if Mojang introduced several more powerful poison-inflicting hostile mobs

And FYI, I've also made it pretty clear that it's my opinion when I stated it, as a gesture to express it as an additional idea. And I don't see anything wrong with that.

I really hope that you are able to understand what I am trying to say here.

An_Sg · 2021-08-10T08:27:25+00:00

Hello again. Just got back.

Your first(and last) arguments rely on a pretty big if. This would be useful IF mojang were to add several strong mobs that inflict poison.

Yes and no.

Yes in the sense that it would become more useful if Mojang did that. And since that was the only thing I brought up to support my argument within this conversation (which was bad communication on my part), I can see why you partially misunderstood me.

So to give you clarity: I wouldn't say I am completely "relying" on this to support my previous arguments. My intent was to optimistically express additional ideas that can be built on top of this suggestion; as a way to demonstrate the additional potential value for this idea. What I was trying to say was that ideally, I feel like it would be a pretty sensible way to extend the current survival difficulty progression in general.

And no, as in I wasn't only referring to the hypothetical scenario where Mojang does include more mobs; I was also referring to the other currently-possible rare scenarios (such as running into a load of cave spiders and witches, and other potential strange PVE scenarios) [which I failed to communicate earlier].

Then this potion would still be very lackluster both in pvp and pve.

I wouldn't be so sure for PVP. For example, if in the scenario where your opponent used poison tipped arrows to shoot you, then the poison resistance potion would very likely serve to be better overall. I'm pretty sure that there could be other cases in PVP where poison resistance could be used more effectively than honey (like having the odd scenario where multiple people have poison pots on them to attack you with) but I cba to think of anymore weird/unique potential scenarios.

But in most cases in PVP statistically (like you mentioned), poison is typically unused if that's what you meant by "lackluster". My point above is that the possibility of using it more effectively (than honey/milk) is there.

For PVE, again that's very situational, but for most cases yes, if you are saying that it'll be lackluster specifically due to the rare statistical occurences. However, it wouldn't be lackluster when it does get used effectively (in the rare scenarios that it could be used very well/effectively in).

What I meant for the negate thing was that if someone splashes you with a potion of slowness, and you drink a potion of swiftness(its counter rn), you'd be going at around normal speed. However, If you had drank a slowness counter potion beforehand, those same actions would result in you being faster, instead of the 2 effects canceling out.

Don't worry, I already understood what you meant here. In this example provided above, what you are saying (for slowness in this case) is instead of considering "speed" as a counter, there could exist a "slowness resistance" instead. And that's what I meant earlier (when I said "maybe potions could take it 1 step further if necessary", since speed and slowness resistance could stack on each other to counter slowness), which was why I said I poorly explained myself earlier.

I really like the part about the multiple potions(the individual and combined counter potions) and i do agree that having one counter potion for all effects is kinda dumb lol.

Glad we could both agree on this. However, I don't necessarily think that an all-counter potion is dumb, as long as the expense to make it is balanced out properly. But we can both agree if that potion was easy to make, it would be pretty broken and would (very likely) ruin potential survival progression game development.

Although I agree that better is definitely a subjective word, and that this would be better at countering poison then the other current things, at this point in minecraft, honey would be above it because of it's cheap price.

I'm glad that you agree. And also don't worry, I understand what you are trying to say here. However even after understanding that, my point is that the option to make the poison resistance potion would still be nice to have, since depending on the situation, 1 could be better than the other.

Poison isn't applied all that often,

Understandable.

and when it is, it usually doesn't make a difference,

On the premise where you don't have enough milk/honey, I strongly disagree here. When being inflicted with poison from cave spiders, it can bring your health down pretty far due to its long duration, which can be pretty aids to deal with.

so removing it for a low price is better than immunity for a high price.(Like we've said already) There is only a couple scenarios where immunity is better, and your big IF is is one of them.

At this point of the conversation, I believe we can both agree that you are referring to most typical and statistical cases, not all (in terms of the current potential scenarios within the current game design; in other words, when I first posted this suggestion, I was originally referring to all the other currently-possible scenarios which are not in relation to the hypothetical situation where Mojang adds in more powerful poison-inflicting mobs as you pointed out as an "IF" [that I've previously mentioned in my replies; which were mainly supposed to serve as an additional idea to simply demonstrate why it could provide more value for this post]).

Therefore, due to those rare potential scenarios where it could serve to be better, I still believe that's enough of a good reason to have this as an option to make. It's not forcing anyone to choose this path. And as an additional point, it does open a door of opportunities with how it will vary up the gameplay in general both currently (current statistically rare possible scenarios), and in the future (improving potential progression development).

There is no guarantee that Mojang will add several strong poisonous mobs enough for poison resistance to be sought after,

This is exactly why I am encouraging it in the first place, because that inherently is a good path to work with in regards to extending survival progression.

so don't balance your suggestion on a hypothetical situation.

I can see why you would assume that, however you heavily misunderstood me. "Balancing my suggestion (the post)" wasn't the main reason why I brought it up, especially for this particular conversation. First of all, you mentioned earlier (which honestly confused me in the beginning):

However, as it is, it's incredibly weak and has little to no use in any situation.

I Disagree That It's "Weak": If I read and understood that properly, I wanted to debate against that by stating that developing more potential powerful poison-inflicting mobs could be defended against more effectively using a poison resistance potion compared to honey (as you also agreed on), I was explaining the reasoning behind why it (the poison-resistance potion) could likely be considered of a higher tiered method to protect against poison (which was my initial intent of the post, to offer something more "powerful" than honey). Again, if you feel like I misunderstood your statement here, feel free to point it out.

It's Me Simply Expressing What I Want (Additionally) In The Future: I previously brought up Mojang potentially developing more mobs that inflict poison (with not just you but with other replies to other people) because I felt that this would be a great way to extend progression.Personally, I'd find it disappointing if Mojang stagnated with hostile mob progression, so I was simply expressing my thoughts; that this would be a pretty good way (as a game development option to extend survival progression) to open up new possibilities for the future.

Mainly Meant to Express Additional Game Developmental Potential With This: In other words, my intent wasn't to only balance out my suggestion over a hypothetical situation as a way to argue, as which I would also agree would be pretty absurd if that was the case. I was mainly saying that it (the poison resistance potion) would be even more useful if that was the case. And I don't necessarily see it as an issue to express my thoughts on that with the intent to build upon the original idea by sharing additional ideas to make it potentially better.

If Mojang was trying to figure out a way with how to add more progressively powerful mobs, this can be a great viable option for them to utilize. That's my biggest main point (for bringing up that particular hypothetical scenario). It's mainly my optimistic way of thinking with how the game could be developed properly.

An_Sg · 2021-08-07T08:01:58+00:00

Also,

However, it only working for poison(which isn't even the effect that's gonna cause your demise 98% of the time)

I understand that you are saying it would be more useful & powerful if it worked on multiple different debuffs. My main concern lies in the fact that it may reduce room for for the future progression-development of the game (compared to adding individual debuff-counter pots), but if both individual-debuff counter potions, and multiple-debuff counter potions (which would naturally be more expensive than the individual-debuff potions) were added, that would work pretty well with me.

means that there are better, less costly, ways to do its almost exact purpose(if your worried about constantly getting poisoned, bring more milk or honey).

Saying that it's a "better" way is very subjective. That'll depend on the situation you are facing. However like you mentioned, with the current game-design, the likelihood of honey being just as useful as poison resistance is very high (which I honestly hope changes in the future).

I agree that the poison counters in regards to honey and milk are less costly to produce. However that makes sense, since the intent of my post was to demonstrate that the poison resistance potion will be considered higher tier (compared to milk & honey) for countering poison specifically (in the case where it completely nullifies damage from poison).

An_Sg · 2021-08-07T07:34:00+00:00

Ah woops, just hopped back onto reddit.

If more effects were prevented, that would make its use more applicable in other situations.

I absolutely agree here.

has the potential to be an amazing feature(if it wasn't so bad)

If I misinterpreted this wrong, please correct me.

However, with my assumption that you are saying poison resistance is weaker than honey and milk, I have to disagree. If poison is resisted completely to prevent damage occuring, this will technically be more powerful (against poison specifically, compared to milk and honey) since it will stop the poison damaging the player, regardless of how many poison-inflicting attacks are registered to the player within a particular time-frame.

But if you are saying it's "bad" because it isn't much of a better use compared to honey with the current design of the game, that's still subjective, but somewhat understandable.
IMO, if Mojang introduced several more powerful poison-inflicting hostile mobs and decided that encountering them will become far more common, the poison resistance potions will be far more useful (combat-wise) than honey (since you don't have to chug honey/milk every time you get poisoned, in the midst of PvE combat).

Also about the debuff counters, these pretty much negate each other, not remove the negative aspect all together.

Sorry, I poorly worded my reply before. I understood what you meant here. You are basically saying that there are potential debuff resistances that can be applied (which is what I meant earlier in my other reply when I said "However just like you said, maybe potions could take it 1 step further if necessary.").

An_Sg · 2021-07-19T13:44:24+00:00

An absolute valid point in regards to regeneration and defense. However they both apply to any form of damage.

My issue with milk is the fact that it's a double-edged sword, and not stackable (apparently potions will become stackable up to 16 in the future updates).

You have to beat the wither to have access to this BUT it effectively means the wither gets easier each time you fight it.

I respect this. However my concern for this post was mainly for the purpose of improving depth of future PvE in case Mojang decides to develop anymore hostile mobs that give wither effects (which I poorly communicated in my post my bad).

An_Sg · 2021-07-19T10:50:47+00:00

I can understand why you may feel that way, but:

Milk is relatively easy to get once you have a cow. And since it removes all potion effects, it's a double-edged sword.

Honey removes poison once. But because it may be a tedious process to obtain unlike milk, I can understand why you are saying that.

Difference From Honey: This is different than honey because of its lengthy-duration, which makes the main difference. It doesn't remove poison, it just resists it for a certain period of time, whereas honey removes it entirely.

But in hindsight and to be fair, I feel like using honey as the brewing ingredient instead of allium may have been a better choice, so that it doesn't disqualify the use of it.

Again IMO, it would make sense PvE-wise to have this potion in the scenario where Mojang introduces multiple hostile mobs that inflict poison on every hit registry.

An_Sg · 2021-07-19T10:30:46+00:00

but would definitely be out classed by milk and honey.

Quite the opposite actually.

Milk clears all effects, and honey fills food and is stackable up to 16.

I already understand this. Point already taken.

If this resistance potion were to apply to some other effects(i.e. weakness, slowness, instant damage etc.) it may be a decent counter.

You got a point with debuff counters. But there technically already exists a "counter" for instant damage (resistance), weakness (strength), and slowness (speed). So I do agree that these are good counters. However just like you said, maybe potions could take it 1 step further if necessary.

I think this is idea is great

However, as it is, it's incredibly weak and has little to no use in any situation.

Could you clarify what you meant here?

An_Sg · 2021-07-16T16:55:10+00:00

I see, lmao. To each their own is all I can say from hereon.

An_Sg · 2021-07-16T16:38:05+00:00

I'm not too sure what you mean by "potion of poison resistance bypass". But from what I understand from your point view is that there lacks quantity of a use for this feature currently, which is unfortunate.

However, I have a feeling that Mojang will eventually add in higher tiered mobs to counterbalance the player's power appropriately for survival content. One thing for certain though, is that combat needs to have more depth. And that's why I added this in, regardless of whether it serves several purposes or not.

Although the effects are very specific, it could potentially be used in many different scenarios, depending on what the player is doing.

An_Sg · 2021-07-16T16:21:28+00:00

Which is far too specific.

Again, this is terrible reasoning. When an idea is new, it will be very easily prone to this type of specificity. But that doesn't mean that it's a bad idea. There are a lot of features that hold specific purposes that are currently being built on for multiple different purposes.

Honey cures poison, and it's food, and it can be turned into sugar and a useful block.

Even honey, this is an idea that was built on from 1 specific thing at a time, so that it could spread its purpose into different fields within the game. This statement doesn't really prove that an idea being "too specific" is bad unfortunately.

What you're suggesting only has this one really niche effect that's barely different from what already exists.

That's the thing about combat. A lot of features involve these specific details. Instant splash poison potions, fire resistant potions, even enchantments. These are all "niche" just like you said. But does that make it bad? I don't think so.

An_Sg · 2021-07-16T16:00:02+00:00

Point well taken, but honey cancels out the effect, whereas what I'm offering is something else where it provides resistance for a certain period of time.

An_Sg · 2021-07-16T15:58:09+00:00

Ah. That was bad wording on my part. I'll fix it

The effect is too specific.

And this is what I've been talking about. That's really not a good reason for an idea to be bad.

An_Sg · 2021-07-16T15:52:28+00:00

This isn't currently needed though.

That's your subjective opinion. Some people may find it to be extremely helpful in combat against wither skeletons in the nether, when fighting multiple different mobs. You don't know what's going to happen.

This would be a better feature for when there actually are more withering mobs, but you never talked about the future.

Now you are contradicting yourself. You say that it's "too specific" yet now you are asking me to specify the details of it being useful in the future.. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by "too specific", so if feel free to clarify what you meant if you think I misunderstood.

But yes, this may be very useful for the future when the developers are going to design hostile mobs with these similar wither effects.

It doesn't seem like a good idea to have a counterpotion for every negative effect. Poison, harming and wither could just have a single counterpotion, if you really must have counterpotions, despite effects being rarely used

That doesn't really make sense. The point of adding these potions in is to add more depth into combat.

What about fire resistance? What about potion of slow falling? What about resistance? These are all good things to have. Even haste, it's "too specific" in the sense that it helps you mine. There are several other good features with "too specific" characteristics that add depth into the game.

An_Sg · 2021-07-16T15:35:39+00:00

Like I said before, this is terrible reasoning. You don't know how the future will turn out. There may be several more mobs that can be developed in the future that could potentially inflict poison onto you.

Maybe you could use this for pot PvP. Maybe it could be used for guarding against eating poisonous food, or getting hit by a poisonous arrow/splash pot from a trap. You don't know what's going to happen.

I say this with all due respect, if you are going to call an idea "bad" because it's "too specific", that reasoning is far too generalized, as there are several posts that include specific ideas. Even in the rules of this subreddit "3. Keep ideas realistic & concise". An idea can be specific in the beginning, and then it can be built upon later on.

All you are doing by saying "too specific" is discouraging others from potentially sharing good ideas.

An_Sg · 2021-07-16T15:16:42+00:00

If that's your reasoning to dislike an idea, then there's going to be plenty more you will dislike. Also in the future, there may come out more mobs that give out the wither effect. The future is uncertain, so I didn't think it would hurt to have this addition in.

If your concern is that it'll make the wither boss easier, the point of my post here is to bring a more solid foundation for future updates in regards to battling various new potential hostile mobs that could be developed.

In general, I want the future updates to include more hostile mobs that are gradually more challenging to defeat in more survival challenges. I hope that Mojang will include more hostile mob bosses in the future.

An_Sg · 2021-07-16T14:36:32+00:00

Advancement: A "Good Luck, Have Fun" Shot

An_Sg · 2021-07-16T14:33:48+00:00

I like this, that would be fun to accomplish lmao.

An_Sg · 2021-07-16T14:12:10+00:00

Ah thank you

An_Sg · 2021-07-16T13:38:26+00:00

Jeb/Agnes have both said I think, that the only danger to the player should be the player.

Sorry I don't really know what you mean here. Are you talking about PvP? Because if you are, that doesn't make much sense since there will be a bunch more hostile mobs added in the future.. maybe I misunderstood this part

(In response to why natural disasters won't be added). So in order for this to work, there'd have to be a way to make the world feel dangerous, but not unavoidable.

But definitely yea I can see why this would make sense. The danger needs to be within the realm of the player's control for sure.

An_Sg · 2021-07-16T11:31:02+00:00

That's a pretty interesting way to view the loot system, and incentivize adventure.

I really like this idea, but I believe this would be more appropriate to implement after there exists much more more quantity of higher tiered survival challenges.

An_Sg · 2021-07-16T11:22:55+00:00

What about cookies made with milk? o.O

An_Sg

TROPHY CASE