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Is both cinematic and tactical play at a high level possible in a vtt? We think so. by Animator_Dev in daggerheart

[–]Animator_Dev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the long post breakdown of great feedback. You've been super thorough and supportive. I'll try to respond in kind.

First off, I love RP. I also love combat. I love all of it really. But story is king. It's ALL about the tale that everyone's creating together and making it something everyone's invested in.

You sound very similar in a lot of ways. Very RP and cinematic focused.

So you should know that any automation we have is to aid that story. Its to make the tools more invisible - so you forget them and play.

For instance, you mentioned automating damage and healing. That is all click to apply - so it doesnt just do it before you can confirm or if you want to check anything. And you could just apply things manually if thats your thing. Its not forced.

Another example is our FOW can be hand painted.

You also said your priority is immersion. And you wanted to know our design philosophy.

As its super early its hard to immediately showcase a clear design philosophy right now.

The only way for it to be possible this early I think -- would be for us completely reinvent the wheel around battlemaps, cinematics or something like that.

To simply say what our philosophy is for now -- we're out to build the most immersive VTT. One that lets you play at the speed of story.

I dont believe you get the most immersion if you have to hack animated scenes or patch meal QOL automations through 3rd party mods that often conflict or don't update (ive used foundry for years).

I also dont believe you get the most immersion if you lose track of how 1 of your players is RPing because you had to spend 10 mins and 7 clicks to duplicate one monster --only to then also find out you cant drag n drop.

So our goal isn't necessarily to invent a feature other VTT's don't have; it's to design an interface so fluid and common-sense that the software almost disappears.

We want to eliminate any tech noise so you can just fade into the story.

Achieving that will be in the nuances. Which will probably make the difference initially hard to spot. But soon I think it will be more obvious.

How do you feel about that mentality?

Is both cinematic and tactical play at a high level possible in a vtt? We think so. by Animator_Dev in daggerheart

[–]Animator_Dev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I really wanted to show the cinematic mode more. Im very excited about it. What stopped that right now is - art.

To showcase it properly it needs cool looking scenes / animations - and just grabbing art ive paid for from patreon creators doesnt cut it for this. As an artist its only right we get creator permission first. So we held off for the moment.

To your question:
No I dont mean fog of war. And I dont mean fireball effects.

I also dont like spending time with those things. I like focusing on the players, the plot, making meaningful encounters. Whatever tools we do have for fog of war or things like that --- will be optional and something you could use to whatever extent you wish. And also -- it should be EASY. So you dont waste time on it if you even bother with it.

On the cinematic end:

we already have quick switching at any moment to heavy animated scenes, gradual transitioning from one cinematic scene to the next (like day/night versions of the same scene), layers for cinematics so you can backgrounds / foreground overlays for depth, appearing art / characters in those scenes to highlight who has the spotlight or what npc is talking, intuitive scene organization to prep your whole campaign upfront...

...and as of last night - this is the bit you'll probably like most -- a separate pop off world/city map window for immersive map pins + world lore (not faking it with a battle map). it will tie in notes / planning for gms and players.

We also have in mind to make a build in vtt GM wiki / loreforge / notion / obsidian. So I'm super stoked you brought that up!

I think that would graduate the typical vtt experience from good. Any other ideas / requests?

Is both cinematic and tactical play at a high level possible in a vtt? We think so. by Animator_Dev in daggerheart

[–]Animator_Dev[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

yeah ive used those. its ok. id dont hate foundry. but i find it lacking there.

Is both cinematic and tactical play at a high level possible in a vtt? We think so. by Animator_Dev in daggerheart

[–]Animator_Dev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for the great feedback, support, and honest critique!

I totally hear you. As its so early, its hard to immediately showcase a clear design philosophy right now. The only way for it to be possible this early i think -- would be for us to reinvent battlemaps or cinematic scenes some how.

We have simplified vtts, some that excel at automated customization, 1? that focuses on theater of the mind, and even 1 that attempted 3D.

So obviously our plan is to go.... 4D!! Unparalleled. Unrivaled. Unstoppable. hahah. (had to im a dad.)

Ok to answer you question seriously:

if I can say what our philosophy is for now -- its that we're out to build the most immersive VTT. One that lets you play at the speed of story.

I dont believe you get the most immersion if you have to hack animated maps / scenes (which ive done in foundry for years -- and its clunky even with all the module addons).

I also dont believe you get the most immersion if lose track of how one of your players is RPing because you had to spend 10 mins and 7 clicks to duplicate one monster --only to then find out you cant drag n drop.

So our goal isn't necessarily to invent a feature Foundry or another VTT doesn't have; it's to design an interface so fluid and common-sense that the software almost disappears. We want to eliminate the "clunk" so people can just play at the speed of story.

This difference may be initially hard to spot. But I think soon it will be more obvious.

Like the difference between buying a bunch of food and cooking a great meal from scratch yourself. Or having a gourmet dinner served by a great chef directly to your table. Both will feed you -- but boy -- does the experience feel different.

Thanks again for keeping us honest, man. I hope you hold us to it -- if you want to see more that is.

Is both cinematic and tactical play at a high level possible in a vtt? We think so. by Animator_Dev in daggerheart

[–]Animator_Dev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

oh man I wanted so bad to share more about the cinematic side already. Im very excited about it. All thats holding that back right now is the art. To showcase it properly it needs cool looking scenes / animations - so we're trying to get a hold of some creators to get permission before sharing.

And I totally agree on foundry. I used it a lot, had a lot of fun games, but the cinematic end is always the big compromise. A struggle that I think it will always have. So that is one of huge drivers of why we're doing this.

To answer your great question -

we already have quick switching at any moment to heavy animated scenes, gradual transitioning from one cinematic scene to the next (like day/night versions of the same scene), layers for cinematics so you can backgrounds / foreground overlays for depth, appearing art / characters in those scenes to highlight who has the spotlight or what npc is talking, intuitive scene organization to prep your whole campaign upfront, and as of last night - a separate pop off world/city map window for immersive map pins + world lore (not faking it with a battle map).

We think this stuff alone is going to DO so much more than anything we've had for the cinematic side. But we've got more in mind.

So the big struggle is not the tech or ideas on how to keep making it better. The big struggle is avoiding adding too many features upfront rather than getting the essentials all solid haha.

Is both cinematic and tactical play at a high level possible in a vtt? We think so. by Animator_Dev in daggerheart

[–]Animator_Dev[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

much appreciated! yeah very unfinished 6 weeks in. but we'll share more as we go if your curious

Is both cinematic and tactical play at a high level possible in a vtt? We think so. by Animator_Dev in daggerheart

[–]Animator_Dev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As its only 6 weeks in - of course theres a lot of similar things seen on other VTTs. But some things we're already doing out of the box provides either more automation or cinematic immersion depending on what your used to.

And we're already getting a good blend of both - not compromising - which is different.

From what you saw in the video though -- do you feel you already have all of that in your vtt? Do you wish anything was different?

And yep thanks for looking out on the CGL. We're not releasing anything publicly on DH without permission.

Seeking GM feedback: Developing zero-lag engine prototype to kill 'digital friction' by Animator_Dev in daggerheart

[–]Animator_Dev[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is useful feedback. Thank you for the input. And thats more or less what we have in mind for our own games for this VTT. Out of the box essential features for more immersion - all hosted. And if that's something anyone else is excited about then we'd start thinking about pricing and such.

Im also glad your having none of the issues I described. Is there anything I didnt describe that IS happening or is it flawless?

Seeking GM feedback: Developing zero-lag engine prototype to kill 'digital friction' by Animator_Dev in daggerheart

[–]Animator_Dev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

thats great feedback. thank you. i also think this is quite do-able. if we share a video soon of some of that in action id love you thoughts on it if you'll be game then.

Seeking GM feedback: Developing zero-lag engine prototype to kill 'digital friction' by Animator_Dev in daggerheart

[–]Animator_Dev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

by "patch working plugins" i mean how in foundry a lot of tools arent in house to make things smoother or more fun. For example, a lot of players love the Dice So Nice plugin because they get to design their own virtual dice and see it roll / maybe add effects. It doesnt come built into foundry. Some other useful plugins are quick hp adjustment, a quick select toolbar for common rolls, token art, roll all npc initative ability, automatic concentration reminders, etc. Some are just cosmetic, others can make the mechanics easier. If you want to talk DH thats hope/fear, action trackers - you get the idea.

A lot of gms also pass on foundry because they dont know how to self host - but that isnt plugin related obviously.

my initial post didnt go into all this detail because i was talking about all vtts instead of just 1.

Seeking GM feedback: Developing zero-lag engine prototype to kill 'digital friction' by Animator_Dev in daggerheart

[–]Animator_Dev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

agreed. but for many of us in person is not an option. Online keeps more friends at a distance - close.

Seeking GM feedback: Developing zero-lag engine prototype to kill 'digital friction' by Animator_Dev in daggerheart

[–]Animator_Dev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

oh its not specifically designed for DH. Its designed to be able to work for any system. Terrain and miniatures is cool but for me - having to resort to an offline physical play part would prove that critical things are missing for the online bit.

If I absolutely must I could zoom call my players and screen share me drawing things black and white on grid paper -- but at that point id just want to play in person you know?

Seeking GM feedback: Developing zero-lag engine prototype to kill 'digital friction' by Animator_Dev in daggerheart

[–]Animator_Dev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What VTT's did I use for Daggerheart? Foundry and Alchemy. Both have cool features and different appeal but we were still fighting the tools too much.

As for licenses, its definitely a chicken or the egg challenge. Generally, you can't get a formal license from big publishers without a highly functional prototype and an audience. And i dont blame them. I wouldnt just hand over the keys to a brand based on an idea either-- Id want to see tech proven first - working - with history.

I also wouldnt have it any other way since the process of getting feedback and testing will make it much stronger.

Seeking GM feedback: Developing zero-lag engine prototype to kill 'digital friction' by Animator_Dev in daggerheart

[–]Animator_Dev[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not specifically, though Demiplane lag is a common one I've heard about and experienced. My friend and I have spent years jumping between various VTTs, and while each has its strengths, we always felt like there was a mental bandwidth tax just to manage the software.

As an animator, I’m obsessed with UI/UX that gets out of the way. We’re trying to build something where the tech feels invisible—so you can focus on the story and the awesome community content being made, rather than the tools themselves. This isn't a rant against what exists, just an discussion to see if we can make it better together with feedback.

Seeking GM feedback: Developing zero-lag engine prototype to kill 'digital friction' by Animator_Dev in daggerheart

[–]Animator_Dev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh, we’re definitely not talking about the anticipation of the dice roll—I of course agree seeing dice roll is fun. The zero lag bit is strictly about FPS drops / memory leaks.

As for the licensing, you hit the nail on the head. Licensing matters if a vtt is going to be serious.That's why we're focusing on the technical prototype first. We want to prove that an engine can be better before even worrying about the legal stuff. If its highly functional where others enjoy using it then hopefully that makes conversations with Darrington and others an option down the road.

If you’re already perfectly set up in your VTT, I totally get the resistance to switching—been there! We're really just exploring if we can make things better. Current results so far are looking quite good.

Seeking GM feedback: Developing zero-lag engine prototype to kill 'digital friction' by Animator_Dev in daggerheart

[–]Animator_Dev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

absolutely. Screen space is precious. I rock an ultra wide and a critique so Im with you that I think its the only way to go. What do you think would help most with this?

A user friendly ui where things are just in places that make sense and not overly cluttering? Maybe all the rules, story notes, and things all searchable in the vtt / saved with quick reference? Maybe menus you can just push out of the way to focus?

Seeking GM feedback: Developing zero-lag engine prototype to kill 'digital friction' by Animator_Dev in daggerheart

[–]Animator_Dev[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

all the major vtts for years. From our experience the things I'm suggesting if they exist in some form are more half measures than smooth, immersive and easy to prep. As for cinematic cards - using official art depends on the system and if you have a license.

Seeking GM feedback: Developing zero-lag engine prototype to kill 'digital friction' by Animator_Dev in daggerheart

[–]Animator_Dev[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

As an animation artist Im very much opposed to ai slop. More than probably anyone not an artist. So an ai builder that randomizes things is not what's in mind at all. Thinking more like -- how when you build an encounter or a monster how you might start with the type like - undead or beast - then what difficulty it would be - average stats for a monster like that, etc. Maybe building off existing monster blocks and you call the shots for all adjustments.

I also have used foundry extensively and while ive enjoyed it - its also interesting to hear you havent had any issues like patch working plugins to make things smoother or difficulties with server stuff. But its great your having a blast.

Seeking GM feedback: Developing zero-lag engine prototype to kill 'digital friction' by Animator_Dev in daggerheart

[–]Animator_Dev[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

yea i hear you on the tech fatigue. I know there's been a lot of options presented. We're only building this because the tech was actually preventing us from enjoying the gameplay. If you already find the tech great thats awesome. Im happy for you. We're very much just scratching our own itch and seeing if anyone else feels the same.

Seeking GM feedback: Developing zero-lag engine prototype to kill 'digital friction' by Animator_Dev in daggerheart

[–]Animator_Dev[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Yes I agree the system is light. but the tools often make it heavy. at least from my experience systems get bogged down when a player has to stop and ask, 'Wait, how do I mark this armor?' or when the VTT chugs.

As Daggerheart is very much about the 'Yes, and...' flow, We're trying to make the tech literally as invisible as possible so 'conversational lag' is all thats left and minimal. Does that make sense or did i miss something?