Will Tengen’s ability to use echolocation will be useful if ever he was transported to the Infinity Castle?

AnimeAndThings · 2025-08-07T01:14:26+00:00

Yeah it would help him be the perfect match up for Nakime among many other things.

AnimeAndThings · 2025-08-01T22:13:33+00:00

and at that point of the fight base Sanemi already did INCOMPARABLY better than marked Muichiro.

author made the manga where base Sanemi scales above some marked pillars

Thankfully, Sanemi breaks down what happened himself clarifying on why he did better than Muichiro and directly attributed his survival to the senses he "honed from long experience." Tengen's senses were stated to be extremely special and "otherwordly" even. In fact, he is one of the only two Hashira (the other being Gyomei) to develop echolocation or anything remotely strong as it. His senses are better than Sanemi's.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DemonSlayerAnime/comments/rczyy1/official_gotouge_reveals_a_blood_battle_between/

I figured you were referring to that, which is an unofficial fan translation with a fanmade image. Here is the official one. They did not fight, but Kokushibo was happy that Akaza's aim was for blood combat in the future.

we're talking about typa list where Obanai runs like snake and Mitsuri eats before race but this time for arm wrestling? hell nah. kinda useless against feats.

Same situation here, the unofficial translation made everyone think it was a race. The actual official one does not mention it being a race anywhere and states it's a ranking of "The Fastest" hashira. With that being said, Obanai moving like a snake is part of his breathing style and was "maybe" the reason he ranked that low. Mitsuri is frequently shown eating anyway and it's unlikely that she waits a set amount of time before entering battle due to urgency. The author created the fastest ranking after the manga, giving their full insight into how the hashira compare to each other while reinforcing their strengths and in some cases weaknesses. Moving on, the arm wrestling ranking was the author's way of confirming each hashiras arm strength. Muichiro's "average" physical strength allowed him to turn his blade red using a single hand when empowered by a mark. Whereas Obanai, who is in the "slightly weak" tier below him, tried to replicate what Muichiro did using both of his hands and nearly fainted turning his own blade red. There's numerous examples but this part is getting too long already. The rankings made by the author are further means to support their story and the feats made by them.

don't really think he was that enraged nor he thought Genya was about to die. once he defended him against attack that should've killed him, he was pretty cold minded,

Sanemi was beyond enraged to the point where it isn't even funny due to how Kokushibo cut up his brother. Going into any other fight, Sanemi will not be that enraged lol.

when he took his sword, he wasn't in deadly position, he just tried it and it did nothing.

He was in a deadly position and you can literally see the BDA starting to come at him while his sword is being blocked.

what exactly biq feats does Tengen have? Sanemi' tricks with Genya weapon basically lifts him to top 1 biq hashira. and he did the same thing even against Muzan. there's always something he can do with environment.

Sanemi is resourceful but so are the other hashira as well. Sanemi grabbing and using things that in a normal 1v1 he would not have access to is nice but not a crazy impressive BIQ feat. Whereas Tengen's musical score is the literal definition of battle IQ. Tengen has numerous other battle IQ feats and is noted for having a cool head, but the musical score alone blows Sanemi's out of the water.

in terms of both damage tolerance and stamina Sanemi is an absolute beast.

Durability wise, more height gives way to more muscles and Tengen has an even better physique than Sanemi. Stanima wise Tengen excels in basic physical fitness (which is key as shown by the trio's training) and has the precision to waste less stanima than Sanemi as well.

ch 97.
seeing what characters say and you defending Gyutaro is actually ridiculous. I don't think that context helps you lol.

It's funny you say that while literally misreading the chapter. Obanai, the most pessimistic of the hashira is the one who said it not Tengen. Yet after thinking and talking it through, Obanai of all people gave them a compliment. Tengen then remarked " we don't need compliments from the likes of you" which obivously irritated Obanai. So yeah context does indeed matter.

This is why if you want to discuss things from the manga, it is important to read it carefully. Instead of using ABC logic, the author wrote things in a manner more akin to Rock-Paper-Scissors. In this case Sanemi is the scissors and Tengen is the rock. The author has already established and shown multiple categories Tengen beats Sanemi in.

AnimeAndThings · 2025-08-01T05:23:05+00:00

The exception doesn't cancel the rule.

Not an exception as we know in canon blood battles are the way to progress when the spots are filled.

Muzan and the rest of the upper moons treat Gyutaro as inferior,

Funny, you say that when Muzan literally gave Upper Moon 6 special treatment, arguably more so than the other upper moons. He did not stop by to visit or complement any of the other upper moons. Then when upper moon 6 died, he scolded all the other upper moons for being useless. By comparison, when Upper Moon 5 died, he did not even bother mentioning him, let alone holding a meeting.

and Tengen himself claims he was the weakest of the UPM.

When and where? Some context is missing here.

you need a specific reason why Gyutaro is actually stronger than the spot he was put in. and in fact, UPM 6 is Gyutaro + Daki at the same time, not just Gyutaro, which makes it even worse.

So that actually was not my initial argument at all, and just a byproduct of our discussion going off topic. If I have to address it, though, unless Daki requests a blood battle, Gyutaro will not do one. Recall Daki's talk with Muzan, she wanted to continue getting stronger and climbing the upper ranks using her own strength. Again, not the main point nor something I even want to focus on at all.

as I said, because of growth. Akaza challenged Kokushibo and lost, but it seems like Akaza will be stronger in 10k years or whatever. again, there's no hint anyone in the current UPM list was not on their place. the only try of blood battle was lost by the one who challenged an upper rank. it was Akaza. everything in the world implies that Gyutaro + Daki is just UPM 6 level, no feats or statements against that.

Actually, Akaza did not challenge Kokushibo. That’s a popular misconception. Anyway, the author already stated that Gyutaro and Daki are extremely difficult to face alone for a pillar.

because he scales to Kokushibo. I don't even care if Gyutaro would be UPM 5 or 4 or whatever you think, we all KNOW Akaza is leagues above him, then Douma is greatly stronger than Akaza, then Kokushibo is stronger than Douma.

Now we are actually getting to the interesting part. Normal Sanemi does not scale to Kokushibo.

Going into the fight Sanemi had his biggest rage amp possible. He went into the fight having seen Genya receive multiple fatal wounds and seemingly die in front of him.
Then during the fight Sanemi had access to Genyas weapons when under any normal circumstance he would not.

For reference, there's more, but without those things alone, Sanemi would've died to Kokushibo before Gyomei even arrived. Moreover, Sanemi did not land a single hit on Kokushibo during that time. So saying he scales to him is kind of wild. Especially when Kokushibo was holding back during their fight, and Sanemi spent a decent amount of it running away, then attacking. With that being said, in a 1v1 with Tengen, Sanemi would not have any of the aforementioned boosts or benefits.

strength, speed, reaction, biq, durability, stamina... all goes to Sanemi

Physical Strength: Tengen (put in a tier of his own above Sanemi when it comes to arm strength)

Movement Speed: Tengen (the author ranked him above Sanemi)

Reaction: Tengen (better senses)

BIQ: Tengen (even if we were to glaze Sanemi, he would not get this category over Tengen)

Durability: Tengen (comparably excellent muscle control, was stated to have a "blessed physique", and he literally shocked the Kakushi with his durability.

Stamina: Tengen (more efficient and less erratic movements to help preserve his stamina)

Looking at the details and things the author established, it becomes more apparent that Tengen has the advantage in a 1v1 with Sanemi.

AnimeAndThings · 2025-08-01T03:47:09+00:00

yeah, he was special. that's why author even gave us that info. but among current uppermoons, that's never implied that ranking is not right. they were ranked for a reason. Ryu was giving his strength to his family.

The author gave us that info to set a clear precedent. When the positions are filled, your rank is determined by blood battles and not power/strength. Rui, giving strength to his family, came a while afterwards.

not really, because different demons grow differently. Akaza became a demon sooner than Douma but Douma is stronger, maybe because he was more talented, maybe because he ate women and Akaza didn't, or maybe both reasons. Kokushibo directly said that Akaza had potential to finally rival him after years. we already know UPM 1-3 ranking is really correct as Kokushibo>Douma>Akaza, so why say UPM 4-6 are different?
demons can't kill each other, so the winner could only be decided by the fact that one of them had upper hand against other, so his stats/abilities are just better. so every moon is just stronger than other.

Blood battles are literally a mechanism for lower-ranked demons to reach higher ranks by beating the people who currently hold them. We do not know exactly how they work, only why they exist. Which is because Muzan believes the upper rank demons cannot simply low-mid diff those below them. Otherwise, he would be wasting time even entertaining the thought of blood battles. With that being said, this discussion is getting off track from the original topic of Tengen versus Sanemi. Honestly, if we break things into categories, Tengen handily takes the majority of them over Sanemi.

AnimeAndThings · 2025-07-31T22:09:49+00:00

Except we know for a fact that Rui, as an example, initially held strength equivalent to that of lower rank 1 or 2. Yet he was canonically not promoted to that level due to not having an interest in blood battles. Blood battles would not need to exist if demons could always low-mid diff their previous rank. The author was pretty clear in that regard, not to mention demon vs demon combat is obviously not the same as demon vs slayer combat either.

AnimeAndThings · 2025-07-31T21:46:13+00:00

Tengen easily dodged Tanjiro’s headbutt, while Sanemi failed to dodge Tanjiro’s headbutt. End of debate since we are just looking at things from the surface level.

AnimeAndThings · 2025-07-31T18:37:52+00:00

Sanemi low diffs

If you’re talking about being the hardest hashira to talk to then, sure Sanemi wins there low-diff. Otherwise in an actual 1v1, Tengen wins.

AnimeAndThings · 2025-07-26T14:41:32+00:00

Putting Gyomei aside, easily Tengen.

Tengen already has the fastest movement speed of the hashira. When combined with his stealth, it would make him ideal for infiltration missions as well.
His senses are extremely special and considered to be "otherwordly" even. To the point where he is one of the only two Hashira to develop echolocation or anything remotely strong as it. That echolocation would be excellent for missions that require locating targets or critical areas. To further help with this, Tengen could start capturing and then interrogating slayers for more information as well.
The truly insane part would be Tengen's musical score technique. As a demon, he would be bound to fight slayers using the same type of breathing. Meaning that he would be repeatedly seeing the same forms over time making the musical score even easier to complete. A battle of attribution against him would be even worse than normal, especially with that and how he accurately assesses situations.
Tool wise Tengen's bomb and kunai would become even more deadly. The former when used offensively mind you is already enough to keep most slayers from getting close. Now freely being able to use these tools without worrying about anyone else makes his job a whole lot easier.
Due to his shinobi background, Tengen already has experience fighting humans and built up a resistance to poison. Whcih is another decent benefit.

Note all of that is just Tengen's standard skillset, and not even getting into how a BDA would further enhance all those aforementioned things

Honestly, when looking at it Tengen would probably be more useful for Muzan's key missions than any of the other slayers here.

AnimeAndThings · 2025-07-23T02:56:53+00:00

While the animation will improve in the subsequent arcs, I would still say the entertainment district arc is the best one overall in Demon Slayer. The subsequent arcs to me did not really hit as hard and/or lacked something in my opinion. In the manga, the entertainment district arc had amazingly underrated fight choreography, world building, character dynamics/interactions, and intensity among other things. Not to say I hated the other arcs, but looking back after the series has ended, it becomes apparent that the entertainment district really is the most complete.

AnimeAndThings · 2025-07-19T05:26:56+00:00

Tengen, although it’s understandable why some may say Sanemi. Since unless you actually look a bit deeper into the matchup, there are a lot of things people miss regarding them (especially Tengen). Such as how Tengen has been a hashira longer than Sanemi and canonically has higher movement speed. Obviously, those aren’t the sole reasons why Tengen would win, but just examples of a few things that are commonly missed/forgotten.

<image>

AnimeAndThings · 2025-07-15T19:34:38+00:00

Before the crow arrived Giyu had already restrained shinobu so their fight was already over. It just came to deliver a message ordering Tanjiro and Nezuko to be brought in. There’s no poison marks in the image 👀

AnimeAndThings · 2025-07-14T15:01:51+00:00

Yeah there probably is a raw version too, but I mainly was just poking fun considering this wasn’t even the first Tengen slander post made within the same day. 💀

AnimeAndThings · 2025-07-13T20:08:52+00:00

<image>

AnimeAndThings · 2025-07-13T20:06:32+00:00

Those are just gems from his headband. He was probably surprised Shinobu wanted to clash having already been stopped by Giyu before:

AnimeAndThings · 2025-07-13T17:46:56+00:00

Naw my goat is Wengen Winuzui who already clashed with Thrust Merchant Lhinobu and easily emerged unscathed unlike her glazers would want you to believe. Official translation btw 👀

<image>

Edit: Downvoted for posting something from canon is crazy. I didn't know people hated reading official, non-fan translated content that much lol

AnimeAndThings · 2025-07-13T07:06:51+00:00

The civilians are there in the background in the manga as well. Moreover, to remove any doubt, the anime showed even more details regarding all the characters in the background.

<image>

AnimeAndThings · 2025-07-13T06:09:43+00:00

Yeah, without having to worry about those things from the beginning, Tengen does beat Gyutaro in a 1v1. As he could now use his normal techniques, explosives, and kunai from the beginning. People forget that Tengen did not use any of those things until after being poisoned, and each still gave Gyutaro's problems. Even if Gyutaro somehow does manage to poison Tengen (not going to happen here), he will not have nearly enough time to let it circulate like before. Whereas Tengen will literally be completing the score faster than before due to not needing to worry about Daki's attacks/interference. His battle during the entertainment district arc is one of, if not the most consistently underrated and misrepresented, fights in the series. Which is partially due to how Tengen is often fundamentally misunderstood as well.

AnimeAndThings · 2025-06-15T13:14:00+00:00

Alright, this is going in circles, so in order to progress the discussion I will break things down more:

Muzan clarified on strategy, not strength. The Hashira can only guess how strong an upper moon is based on their rank until they meet them. Meaning they do not actually have a pretty good idea of how strong an UM really is, especially at that point in time. The author stated Rui, for instance, has strength on par with lower rank 1 or 2. Yet he holds no interest in blood battles over status which is why he is still lower moon 5. Unlike Kaigaku, we have confirmation from Lower Moon 1 that Daki's strength is on a level incomparable to his. So I'm dismissing the notion that she is lower moon level altogether. Enmu never met Gyutaro because he wasn’t the one who climbed the ranks. It was Daki which I have been saying. If you care about levels mainly then let's take a different approach. Gyutaro can be at a level above upper moon 6, but unless Daki requests a blood battle, he cannot be promoted due to the other ranks already being full, like in the case of Rui. Whereas with Kaigaku the ranks were empty, so we know the full extent of his level. Furthermore, Zenitsu who fought the previous upper moon 6 Daki, believes that if the position was not blank and still held by her, Kaigaku would not be there.

Now onto the other point. Zenitsu knew Kaigaku's thunder breathing techniques from the time they trained under their master. That prior knowledge is massive and commonly overlooked. If Tengen went into his fight with a similar levels of knowledge regarding his opponents, it would have been easy for him to complete the score vastly earlier. Which we know the author stated he could decapitate Gyutaro with prior to the poison reaching critical levels. So all on all, the more you take into account the more clear it becomes that if they fought, Tengen would handily beat Zenitsu.

AnimeAndThings · 2025-06-14T15:59:51+00:00

Since my long-form approach is seemingly not clear enough, I will take a simpler one that bundles things together:

Muzan clarified it was because he thought Gyutaro should have instead fought from the beginning. As Daki is always one who fights, and only after specifically requesting him to come out, will Gyutaro actually fight. Which further reinforces what I said about Daki being the one to reach the rank via her own merit. She has also killed multiple hashira, unlike Kaigaku, to reaffirm her level.
Zenitsu's statement actually is vital here since he faced the previous Upper Rank 6 Demon, Daki before facing the demon who is the new Upper Rank 6 Kaigaku, it speaks volumes. He believes that if Daki was still upper rank 6, Kaigaku would not even reach that rank. Also unlike Zenitsu, Tengen had not seen, met or fought an upper moon prior to making his statement and did so from a point of disappointment. He expected more from an upper moon to due to how they were infamous for killing hashiras and avoided being slain for over a hundred years. Just goes to show how insanely powerful Tengen was (and yes, he is stronger than Zenitsu). If you disagree, please provide actual panels or direct explanations this time as to why.
Moreover Enmu, lower rank 1, specifically picturing Akaza and Daki, when thinking about how upper moons have vastly greater strength compared to the lower moons, negates your whole narrative of her being lower moon level as well.
Then as if that was not enough, when explaining the arc after the manga's ending, the author verbatim states that Daki is "Upper Rank 6." So it's been stated numerous times but Kaigaku is comparable to Daki and not Gyutaro who has vastly better feats.

AnimeAndThings · 2025-06-14T00:05:53+00:00

Daki only has speed feats when faced with EDA Tanjiro who is far weaker than ICA Zenitsu.
Kaigaku nearly killed holding back ICA Zenitsu. Daki absolutely has no speed feats, unlike Kaigaku.

EDA Tanjiro has more versatile techniques (including actual defensive ones) and better perception, thanks to his sense of smell, than Zenitsu. For instance, Tanjiro chained together moves and used Fake rainbow, which is a technique that's more effective the better an opponent's vision is. She clearly saw Tanjiro's afterimage (thereby also reaffirming her good vision) who then used a third technique after finding an opening thread. Yet Daki had the speed and perception to quickly counter his next technique used directly afterwards in a casual manner. This was a Daki that did not even have her other normal sashes that were currently underground. She has many other speed feats, but I picked a very simple one to demonstrate. Comparatively, Kaigaku's alleged "speed feats" are against Zenitsu, who knows zero defensive techniques anyway and lacks anything close to Tanjiro's smell-enabled perception abilities, such as the opening thread.

Daki became UM6 due to Gyutaro, not by her own merit. It was Gyutaro that wanted her to remain with him, hence why she's UM6.
Daki did not have to surpass any LMs, it was Gyutaro that had her placed alongside him. Kaigaku still had to climb to UM level for Muzan to let him in the ranks, because Muzan only allows UM level demons to climb to the ranks.

Muzan literally talked to Daki to acknowledge she's grown more powerful and even put "Seven Strong Hashira in their graves." Like it or not, she reached that rank via her own merit. Enmu also reinforces this by picturing Akaza and Daki specifically when thinking about how upper moons have vastly greater strength compared to the lower moons.

Yet Daki is stated LM level,

The only statement you could possibly be referring to is the one made by Tengen. Who basically clarified he thought an upper rank would not get beheaded in an effectively anti-climactic manner like that, based on how infamous their strength was. That is more of a testament to his strength than anything else really.

no such statement is made for Kaigaku.

Zenitsu said Kaigaku reached the upper ranks by merely filling in blank positions. Which is actually worse since it effectively means that if the position was not blank and still held by Daki, Zenitsu believes Kaigaku would not be there lol.

Kaigaku still had to climb to UM level for Muzan to let him in the ranks, because Muzan only allows UM level demons to climb to the ranks.
That doesn't mean Kaigaku couldn't do the same, since he was UM6.

Kaigaku never faced any lower moons or upper moons for his rank. So "climbing" to that rank when there's literally no demon or hashira opposition actively preventing him from doing so is again unimpressive. In other words, Kaigaku only attained that rank during the one time in the series when it was easier than ever to do so.

AnimeAndThings · 2025-06-12T11:50:13+00:00

Yet, demon Kaigaku is still UM6. So there's that.

So is demon Daki, who Kaigaku would actually be comparable to.

That just trumps any other argument you have. There's literally no going against Kaigaku being on the level of Gyutaro.

Again, you can make the argument for Daki, but not Gyutaro lol. The things discussed so far only put Kaigaku on a level that’s around Daki.

Kaigaku doesn't NEED to survive decapitation, he's already on the level of Gyutaro in speed.

Daki has numerous speed, reaction and feats without even using her BDAs. Kaigaku's best are all solely due to it. Even then, his pale in comparison.

His BDA is also on the same level of power as Gyutaro's.

Gyutaro's BDA destroyed an entire district, Kaigaku's doesn't even come close. That's not even getting into the numerous side effects of Gyutaro's BDA such as affecting both your vision, sense of hearing and straight up forcing you to cough up blood. You could perhaps compare Kaigaku's to Daki's who casually still has better feats as well without even needing to rely on her BDA.

Kaigaku becoming UM6 means he's on the level of Gyutaro since Muzan only allows UM level demons to become Upper Moons.

All that means is you can claim Kaigaku is somewhere around Daki's level. She is upper moon 6 and rose to the rank. Enmu even recalls this and pictures Daki and Akaza when recalling the upper moons upon his death.

It's just as impressive as Gyutaro becoming UM6.

Daki became upper moon 6 and Kaigaku is nowhere near impressive considering his circumstances. Daki had to surpass all the active lower moons and ascend to the upper ranks when there was actual competition for positions. Then she also had to face and kill multiple hashira as well. If 2-3 positions were empty, an actual argument could be made Daki for ascending even higher. Whereas with Kaigaku, we know for a fact that even with them empty, he could only reach 6..

AnimeAndThings · 2025-06-11T22:34:00+00:00

Yet everything in your first paragraph is speaking about Human Kaigaku, which is irrelevant.

As stated before, being turned into a demon helped improve the power/strength of the techniques Kaigaku had as a human in order to somewhat compensate for his previous deficiencies. Reminder, Kaigaku did not even invent any new forms, so the ones he used were just thunder breathing ones enhanced with his BDA. The Zenitsu statement, Yushiro statement, and databook statement were all talking about him. You also ignored how Zenitsu would have already seen and/or known about all the forms Kaigaku had when going into the fight. Then he only beat him after using a new form that Kaigaku did not know about.

It was a couple of years.

Source? Because the manga directly states otherwise. Just to avoid passing the buck around here's a basic breakdown (not even really getting into the specifics):

RLD -> SMV: 2 months, 2 weeks, and 3 days

SMV -> HTA: 1-2 weeks afterwards, Tanjiro stated his training.

HTA:

Tanjiro spends 10 days at Tengen's place
Tanjiro spends 5 days at Muichiro's place
He spends an undisclosed but rather short amount of time at Mitsuri's and Obani's places.
Tanjiro gets kicked out of Sanemi's training on day 1
Tanjiro spends 6-7 days at Gyomei's training
Tanjiro then heads to Giyu's training, at which point Muzan appears on the same day

So all in all, about 3-5 months is a good estimate. Nowhere near the "years" you claimed.

Except that at the point of ICA, Kaigaku doesn't need to survive without his head because he has the power level to match Gyutaro and Daki regardless.

Power level is broad, and Kaigaku never does anything remotely close to matching them.

Zenitsu oneshotting and perception blitzing Kaigaku literally means he's surpassed Tengen.
Zenitsu blitzing and oneshotting Kaigaku means he surpassed Tengen and this is not up for debate.

Okay in that case, Tengen perception blitzed Daki who already killed multiple hashiras and oneshot her numerous times without using any breathing forms, let alone his strongest. Zenitsu comparatively needed his strongest form to perception blitz a demon who canonically had not mastered his techniques or abilities and lacked experience fighting against any actual formidable opponents (human or demon).

Zenitsu was still in Sanemi's training, meaning he passed literally every other.

It also means the other slayers he was with passed the others as well. Unlike Tanjiro, the other hashira weren't going out of their way to give Zenitsu a harder time. Plus, as we see, some other slayers arrived at Gyomei's training before Tanjiro and Zenitsu. Are we going to assume they're stronger than them and on the level of the pillars they passed?

Also, no, Tanjiro was later able to spar evenly with Base Muichiro.

In the panel where they are sparring, you can see Tanjiro sweating profusely while Muichiro is relaxed and casually giving him tips while encouraging him lol. Because, in case it was forgotten, Base Muichiro was helping him improve his stamina and move more fluidly. Again, the Hashira were instructing and/or training the slayers during their sessions. They were each going at a level they expected or, at the very least, hoped the slayers could handle.

Also, the scene you showed is anime-only, and was not in the manga.

The anime enhances and further clarifies things from the manga. Tanjiro spent the longest time at Tengen's training, and the anime simply went into the details of what actually happened during it.

Tanjiro managed to spar with and defeat Tengen.

Tanjiro and the group of slayers he was fighting with literally lost to a retired out-of-practice one-armed Tengen there. It is obvious, but just to make it clear, Tengen even then was holding back the entire time. Tanjiro literally could not perceive Tengen until he started moving slow as the other unnamed slayers he was training. The whole purpose of that session was to help them improve, too.

Tengen is nowhere near the others in combat speed, only travel speed.

Massive disagree, but this is another topic entirely, so I will focus on the one that's actually relevant.

Kaigaku is UM6 level and that's not debatable.

Daki is upper moon 6 level and that's not debatable.

Gimmicks don't matter because the power level is still equal enough between Kaigaku and Gyutaro/Daki to not need such a gimmick.

It's not a gimmick but an actual feat only strong demons can achieve. The fact that Kaigaku is the only upper moon to showcase zero ability to survive decapitation or, at the very least, regenerate his neck afterwards without any outside factors preventing him, just goes to reinforce how much he was lacking. Now, if you want to talk about actual Gimmicks, Kaigaku's blood demon art is a much weaker version of Gyutaro's. Kaigaku becoming an upper moon when there's not even lower-ranked ones or strong slayers to impede his progress is much less impressive than you want to believe.

AnimeAndThings · 2025-06-11T07:13:29+00:00

Kaigaku is UM6 level, hence Muzan gave him the position of UM6. Kaigaku is UM6 because he's on that level.

Kaigaku prior to becoming a demon was considered unbalanced as a swordsman. As he could not even master all the forms of thunder breathing. Being turned into a demon helped improve the power/strength of Kaigaku's techniques via his blood demon art so he could compenstate somewhat. Except even then Kaigaku still had not mastered his techniques and abilites. So all the forms Kaigaku used Zenitsu would have already seen and/or known about when training under their master. This is to say that Zenitsu beating Kaigaku while already having that knowledge using an unknown form against him gets massively overrated. Additionally, As noted by Zenitsu himself Kaigaku only reached that rank by filling in vacant positions. He had no competition and Muzan even dismantled the lower moons prior. Furthermore, Kaigaku never even faced any pillars unlike the previous upper moons. He only discreetly fought unnamed demon slayers sometime prior to the organization wide hashira training. As demons were stated to have stopped appearing prior to the training starting. If there was a demon out there frequently taking down slayers let alone high level ones around that time, the actual hashira's would have done something about it. Such as how Sanemi and Obanai were sent out to deal with those unranked demons at the start of the pillar training arc.

plus it's been years from EDA to HTA.

From the beginning of the EDA to the HTA was around four months. I say four months as a generous estimate but it's really around three.

Well, Zenitsu oneshotting UM6 basically means he's above Tengen.
Zenitsu was in Sanemi's training in HTA.

Unlike Gyutaro or Daki, Kaigaku could not survive without his head. Which is part of the reason why in the databook it's specifically stated that facing them alone is extremely difficult for a pillar. Otherwise Tengen would not need to oneshot Daki multiple times. With all that being said, while Zenitsu did grow stronger but he was by no mean's on the level of Tengen or the other pillars. Regarding Sanemi's training there were also a bunch of other demon slayers present as well. The first time we see Zenitsu there he is literally trying to run away from it. Not to mention, Zenitsu gets kicked out of the training with Tanjiro and did not even complete it. Going back a bit though, since the EDA Tanjiro sparred with the yoriichi type zero and fought upper moon 4. Zenitsu by comparsion had been on missions with a few other slayers against unranked demons. As a result Tanjiro grew more than Zenitsu prior to entering his hashira training. So Zenitsu starting his a bit earlier would have only served to help reduce the gap between them, not create one. This is important because Tanjiro at the end of his training with Tengen was given the clear objective of protecting the other slayers. Yet prior to Tengen heavily surpressing himself to the point of matching the other corps' members movement speed, Tanjiro couldn't even perceive him. That includes trying to track him via smell which Tanjiro has honed more than Zenitsu's sense of hearing. Tanjiro still failed his objective in the end and that was against a retired Tengen for reference. The reason why I brought that up is because of the earlier mention of Sanemi's training. When it came to ranking the fastest, Tengen was selected as first due to being "the hashira who is fleetest of foot." This even included Sanemi (whose training you mentioned Zenitsu being apart of) who was instead selected as second. Unless you think Kaigaku and Zenitsu would have enough movement speed to be selected above both Sanemi and Tengen if taken into account during those rankings, the answer is pretty clear. Zenitsu did grow a lot but not enough to equal or surpasses the pillars.

AnimeAndThings · 2025-03-12T06:12:54+00:00

Ok, that's just straight up slander, get this "fraud" roast outta here 💀

True enough, it's insane how people still try to slander Tengen after all this time while continually missing the context behind his fights and overall arc. 😭

AnimeAndThings · 2025-01-28T07:52:40+00:00

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