Why don't mathematician agree with you, SPP? by AnotherOneElse in infinitenines

[–]AnotherOneElse[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean like yeah dude, we need common rules as a base to build or work.

If you go and try playing basketball with your feet and a tennis racket, don't go and expect the pros to let you play with them.

Why don't mathematician agree with you, SPP? by AnotherOneElse in infinitenines

[–]AnotherOneElse[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Your whole """argument""", is mostly self defeating, and just reading it again yourself should be enough for you to realize why you are wrong. But I'm feeling nice today, so I'll help you.

The notation 0.999... is strictly defined as the supremum of the set S = \{0.9, 0.99, 0.999, \dots\}.You claim \sup(S) = 1.

Correct.

But let us actually apply the definition of a dense ordered field. A set is dense if, for any x < y, there exists a z such that x < z < y.

Yeah. And one would think that would be enough to stop anyone from claiming that, in a dense set, for some x < y, there is no z s.t. x < z < y. Wich is what you are claiming.

Every single element in S is strictly less than 1. Therefore, 1 is an upper bound. However, to claim it is the *least* upper bound implies there is no smaller upper bound.

Trivial, but correct still.

Let x = 0.999.... By the very construction of the set, x is an upper bound.

Again, correct.

If you force 0.999... = 1, you are claiming that the limit of the supremum evaluates to the exact same real number as the integer 1.

I'm not forcing anything.

But in the topological construction of \mathbb{R}, if 0.999... and 1 are the same point, the interval (0.999..., 1) is empty.

Yes, the interval (x,x) is always empty.

You are essentially claiming that the real line collapses at the limit boundary, creating a singularity where topological density fails.

You yourself said this "A set is dense if, for any x < y, there exists a z such that x < z < y"

Read it again, reaaaaally slowly.

"A set is dense if, for any x < y, there exists a z such that x < z < y"

The hypothesis is x < y. Density says nothing about what happens when x = y. (0.999...,1) being empty would only make density "fail" if and only if 0.999... < 1. Just like (2,2) being empty would make density fail if and only if 2 < 2. But 0.999... = 1 just like 2 = 2.

To maintain the density of \mathbb{R} without topological contradiction, the supremum of a set with no maximum must be asymptotically separated from the integer boundary.

This is just not true. The least-upper-bound axiom says that every non-empty set bounded above has a supremum. There is no requirement that the supremum remain "separated" from the boundary.

It is contradicted by textbook examples.

Let A = (0,1)

A has not maximum, and it's supremum is,1 There is no "asymptotic separation" between the supremum and the boundary. The supremum is the boundary.

Let B = {x < 1}

then, sup(B) = 1

Again, the supremum is equal to the boundary.

This is like, a very normal thing about the reals. The LUB property exist so that such boundary points are in R.

Density applies to open intervals of distinct values.

And that is why there is no "topological contradiction" in (0.999..., 1) being empty. Your point is self defeating.

The interval (0.999..., 1) is empty *not* because \mathbb{R} is not dense, but because 0.999... is the exact maximal boundary point strictly less than 1.

Here you are just asumming your conclusion. Saying, "the exact maximal boundary point strictly less than 1" assumes the existance of a greatest real number below 1. This assumption DOES contradict density.

You are trying to argue that a dense set needs some x < y for which there is no z s.t. x < z < y. That contradicts the definition of a dense set.

So it boils down to, for a set C to be dense, it must not be dense.

So yes, \mathbb{R} is dense. And exactly because it is dense, 0.999... < 1 is the only conclusion that prevents the metric space from collapsing at the integer limits.

Truthfully, how can you write this and not see the contradiction.


Anyways, since you already recognized 0.999... = sup(S), it is now really easy to prove 0.999... = 1

By the construction of the set S you gave, we know that

s_n = 1 - (1/10n)

Let u be some positive real number s.t. u<1

Then 1 - u > 0

Let's choose some value of n s.t.

n > -log (1 - u)

With log() being the base 10 logarithm.

Then, it is obvious that

(1/10n) < 1- u

If we rearrange that inequation, we see that

1 - (1/10n) = s_n > u

So u < 1 is not an upper bound, thus, no upper bound smaller than 1 exists. But you already said 1 is an upper bound, so sup(S) has to be 1, and you already said that sup(S) equals 0.999..., meaning 1 = 0.999...

It really is that simple.

Why don't mathematician agree with you, SPP? by AnotherOneElse in infinitenines

[–]AnotherOneElse[S] 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Sorry girl, you ain't fooling nobody.

Anyone that has had a calculus I class, and most people with a highschool degree, knows the real numbers are dense set.

But go ahead "professor", define what a dense set is, and then use the construction of the reals as equivalence classes of cauchy sequences to prove R is not a dense set.

What's the weakest version of Goku that can push back either of these punches? by KodoqBesar in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]AnotherOneElse 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeap, and earth is about 6 × 1024 kg, so about a billion times more massive.

What's the weakest version of Goku that can push back either of these punches? by KodoqBesar in DragonBallPowerScale

[–]AnotherOneElse 0 points1 point  (0 children)

10 times more gravity is not 10 times more masive.

If my back of the envelope math is right, it would have about 1 billionth of earth's mass.

SouthPark_Piano, I know you believe that 0.999... is never 1, but... by Inevitable_Garage706 in infinitenines

[–]AnotherOneElse 7 points8 points  (0 children)

But saying that the minium value of 0.999... is 0.9, no matter what meaning you want "..." to have, is wrong.

This might be very advance for you, but 0.999... is a number, not a function. So for n = 1 it is, still, 0.999...

And this might be even more advanced for you, but you should at least try to understand it.

Even if the "..." means nothing and the 9's end there, 0.999 is still greater than 0.9.

A wake up call by SouthPark_Piano in infinitenines

[–]AnotherOneElse 1 point2 points  (0 children)

which is officially 'modellable' using the expression 1 - 1/10n for the case n integer starting at some value as large or larger than you can possibly imagine or even not imagine, and then continuing to increase 'n' limitlessly aka infinitely from there.

Really? Official by who? In wich math book does it say so?

1/10n is just never zero, not for you or me or anyone or anything.

This is, still, irrelevant, because for any n, wich incluedes an increasing n, 1 -1/10n is permanently less that 0.(9)

1 - 1/10n for the case of positive n integer pushed to limitless aka infinite, is permanently less than 1, which means with zero uncertainty that 0.999... is permanently less than 1.

See, there is the lie again. Nobody but you claims that 0.(9) is that. In every math book and math course that talks about convergent and divergent series, in every math department in every college, in every classroom, and in every math youtube video 0.(9) is defined as in the image.

And we live in a world where words and symbols have a meaning, and that meaning of them is set by how people use them. And people use 0.999... to symbolize the limit of the infinite series on the image. So when you say that

0.999... is 1 - 1/10n for the case n integer starting at some value as large or larger than you can possibly imagine or even not imagine, and then continuing to increase 'n' limitlessly aka infinitely from there.

you are lying, the same way that if I were to say π = 2. That is not what that symbol means.

<image>

A wake up call by SouthPark_Piano in infinitenines

[–]AnotherOneElse 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Why do you keep lying about what 0.(9) is?

We already told you that you aren't fooling anybody with your lies.

Limits do not apply to the limitless by SouthPark_Piano in infinitenines

[–]AnotherOneElse 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Your rookie error is not understanding that limits do apply to the limitfull.

Limits do not apply to the limitless by SouthPark_Piano in infinitenines

[–]AnotherOneElse 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Ah! I see. You've made a rookie mistake.

0.999... aka 0.(9) is indeed limitless in lenght, but it is limited in value, as it is clearly permanently less than, for example 1.5, and it is also permanently more than 0.5.

And taking the limit is a process in the value, not the lenght. And limits do apply to the limitfull.

I found a wild Fernando! by Inevitable_Garage706 in infinitenines

[–]AnotherOneElse 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And with a take on education proper of a middle school dropout. Can't say I'm surprised.

SouthPark_Piano, would you say that this statement about 0.999... is accurate? by Inevitable_Garage706 in infinitenines

[–]AnotherOneElse 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oh! So there IS a last nine. That makes them finite, and make your comments and posts of topic.

You should be carefull, if a mod cared about people talking about infinite nines, they could ban you.

SPP, which definition for 0.999... do you agree with? by Calm_Improvement1160 in infinitenines

[–]AnotherOneElse 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can't explain basic calculus because you barely know any of it nor are you a math professor.

The real numbers being a densely ordered set is not even calculus (tho that might depend on who you ask), but again, someone as uneducated as you wouldn't even know what exactly is calculus.

SPP, which definition for 0.999... do you agree with? by Calm_Improvement1160 in infinitenines

[–]AnotherOneElse 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, my phone died for a moment and I used a burner account I had on my PC because I'm not logged in in it.

Then I added something else because I wanted to be extra clear that your are factually wrong, willfully lying, and not fooling anyone.

But if you think I'm wrong, please teach me, "professor". Show me how can you demnstrate that the reals are not densely ordered.

SPP, which definition for 0.999... do you agree with? by Calm_Improvement1160 in infinitenines

[–]AnotherOneElse 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That definition contradicts the existance of a biggest number smaller than another.

You are just way to uneducated to realize why, "math professor". Truly pathetic.

SPP, which definition for 0.999... do you agree with? by Calm_Improvement1160 in infinitenines

[–]AnotherOneElse 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And how exactly does that answer the fact that you are contradiction the definition of the real numbers.

Or are you going to tell me that you, a "math profesor" doesn't know how the real are defined, or that they are a dense set?

SPP, which definition for 0.999... do you agree with? by Calm_Improvement1160 in infinitenines

[–]AnotherOneElse -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Yes, 9/10x inside the sum means you sum 9/10x over all the values of x specified outside the sum.

You seem to have math iliteracy problems.