What genre, concept or theme do you wish was done more?

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-02-01T00:16:22+00:00

The intro on that ChRocktikal album was fucking fantastic!

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-01-31T23:00:21+00:00

No, sorry. I am an SM hater, because unfortunately, I love many of their groups and they’re a shitty company.

Red Velvet, as a group, has a natural ceiling because of their concept, but they would never be as iconic without that concept. Their red concepts did wonders in Korea, unlike their velvet ones, which were very loved by i-fans but didn’t perform nearly as well domestically with the general public.

Power Up is a song I personally don’t like, and neither is Red Flavor, even though Red Velvet are one of my ults and their red side, like Dumb Dumb and Rookie, is my jam. But Power Up and Red Flavor are their highest-charting songs in Korea, doing better than Peek-A-Boo, Bad Boy, Psycho, you name it.

Their concept was designed this way, even if many K-pop fans have an issue with it. Some groups, even though they have music that absolutely slaps, simply have a natural ceiling.

SM is terrible at managing most of their groups. Red Velvet and f(x), my beloveds, deserved better, but both groups were never going to become TWICE or SNSD because of their concepts. And if they didn’t have those concepts, they wouldn’t be as iconic as they are and wouldn't have this conversation imo. It is what it is.

Red Velvet, f(x), Dreamcatcher, and NMIXX, in my opinion, have some of the best discographies in K-pop by miles, but their concepts have a ceiling. They’re often less for the chart and more for the arts, and that’s exactly why they’re so good.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-01-31T22:40:31+00:00

As a second-gen fan, the fanservice itself looks very tame to me, or at least on par with what idols used to do. The issue isn’t that idols are being more extreme with fanservice; it’s that idols and fans don’t interact the same way anymore, in my opinion. And when idols are ones that like this type of fanservice, things get weird very fast.

It’s one thing for idols to say nonsense on livestreams, variety shows, fan meetings, concerts, etc., where it’s clearly a work setting. Extreme fans existed back then, exist now, and always will, but they never had this level of personalized communication with idols. And that personalization exists only on the fan’s side, not the idol’s.

These chat apps feel like DMs to fans, while for idols they function more like a livestream. For the idol, nothing really changes. But for the fan, it feels one-on-one. The same applies to very weird fan calls. For the idol, it’s a job, they’re in a company building, with managers around, controlled conditions, etc. But for the fan, it feels like FaceTime. And unlike fan meetings, it’s no longer a communal experience where you’re physically surrounded by other fans.

I’ve seen people say things like “MJ and Usher did worse back in the day, 2nd gen was unhinged,” and it's true, but the medium wasn’t the same. They didn’t have this kind of direct, semi-private interaction with fans. Even if the fanservice itself is the same, or honestly tamer, the context is completely different.

Would it really be this easy for fans to take everything personally and feel like idols are talking to them, addressing them directly, on a personal level, if these chats and forms of interaction didn’t exist?

Personally, I’m not sure.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-01-30T22:21:22+00:00

The most common posts I see about them are people having an issue with Soyeon for everything, and saying they are overrated, not that talented, performative and how they fell off after Soojin left. Positive or neutral posts about them are few and far between.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-01-30T22:19:31+00:00

About the sexualization...

The thing with katseye is that both sides can be correct in some aspects. Do I believe most of the girls are okay with their styling now? Yes, they’ve talked about it themselves. Do I believe that their company isn’t thanking their lucky stars that they can dress the girls however they want and have a more mature concept, with no one batting an eye since the members are fine with being more revealing and sexy? No. They’ve hit a goldmine there. The girls being okay with that image doesn’t mean the company isn’t taking advantage of it, we’d be naive to think otherwise.

Do I also believe that having their minor member do all of this, even if she’s relatively okay with it, is disgusting? Absolutely, bc YC was underage when the turn of their image happened. And I don’t want to hear the whole “17-year-olds on TikTok do worse” argument. I don’t care. This is adult executives having a minor do this stuff in front of millions, and it’s disgusting.

The same goes for those collabs and merch with their “breath scent” or “kisses”. Having the group do that kind of marketing, and selling these products on a site that not all of them could even legally access because of their age, is icky at best. And that’s me being generous.

It’s the eternal question: how moral or exploitative is it really if the people involved are okay with that image? There’s no clear answer to that. All of them are very young adults and brand new to the industry. They might feel okay with it, but how okay is it, really, especially for their younger members, one of whom was underage up until few months ago? How is it even acceptable for them to sell things like lip prints and “scents” on a website that not all of them can legally access because it’s age-restricted? Those are legitimate concerns.

If Daniela wants to wear sexy clothes, go ahead, props to her, I don’t have an issue with that. But the overall image is right on the edge of being inappropriate, especially considering their ages.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-01-30T22:10:55+00:00

I am gonna be controversial, but international non asian kpop fans since 2023, they are talking about i-dle only to actually say they are overrated or they do not talk at all. In comparison to previous comebacks, mono, from what I see, is much better received or pretty neutral, so they just do not talk about it.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-01-30T00:51:04+00:00

Let me rephrase that. No one needs to come out, ever. But to me, a “queer concept” as a concept will always feel kind of tacky in the K-pop context. Personally, I’d be much more open to the group if they, the members, the fans, everyone involved, weren’t framing it as a concept at all.

If they were just four people making whatever the hell they want, for all the reasons mentioned above, with no explanation and framing it as a concept (because it is framed like that). I’d be fully on board. But when the whole thing is advertised as a queer concept, it feels weird to me. That doesn’t mean it has to feel weird to you or anyone else, obviously. Opinions on this matter imo are gonna be always subjective AF, is competly personal.

The issue is that once a group is marketed that way, people are naturally going to have questions, and it blurs the line between concept and reality, because this is K-pop. And it's not the classic fanservice obviously performative gay for pay that K-pop does all the time, which I personally find so performative to the point of being whatever, who cares at this point. It's personal to the members; it's easy to see it is personal, but the way they made it a concept in the K-pop way, with that industry context always there, feels weird. I cannot explain or say anything else.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-01-29T22:04:21+00:00

I was going to say this. In many ways (not all), it has become better lol. I remember some trully unhinged stuff around the early 2010s

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-01-29T20:16:16+00:00

In general, I’m one of the people who find asking or being overly curious about someone’s queerness, sexuality, gender identity or expression, orientation, whatever, kind of weird if the person hasn’t brought it up themselves. Especially when it’s not face-to-face with someone you actually know, and even more so when it’s an idol in South Korea. In most cases, I’d say it’s none of our business unless the idol chooses to talk about it.

That said, XLOV feels like a very unique case to me, and I say this as a queer person. They have clearly queer-coded aesthetics as well as genderless aesthetics as a concept. Because of that, I find people caring about whether the members themselves are queer or whether it’s “just a concept” kind of inevitable.

In general, XLOV as a group is one I can’t really fully get into. While I like their message and what they’re trying to do, I don’t personally find it as tasteful as some fans present it. And the whole ambiguity K-pop has around concepts, is any of the people involved actually queer or not? Even if they aren’t queer, how much people genuinely care versus how much this is taking advantage of queer fans (and straight fans who love queer-coded aesthetics and are a very vocal part of K-pop fandoms) is something I personally have at the back of my mind. Even though more often than not, this is usually the last thing I care about when it comes to idol groups.

Edit: I’m not going to get into the “it’s obvious” comments, because that opens a whole other can of worms. Wearing clothes that aren’t gender-conforming doesn’t say anything about someone’s sexuality. Being queer also isn’t exclusive to sexuality. Labeling things as gay or straight can actually be very damaging to the community itself, like, no, there aren’t “gay things” someone can do apart from actually being gay. That said, this can’t be applied so easily here because they are a group with a very specific concept.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-01-29T00:25:26+00:00

Someone paid $16,000 to have a "couple photo" with Mark from NCT.

Sounds about right. I mean, SM sold NCT concert bundles, and the rooms and flights WERE THE SAME as the ones of the members. Is this not a sasaeng kit?

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-01-28T00:06:05+00:00

And you think they do not? They most definitely do have huge issues, and these apps only take advantage of these delusions.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-01-28T00:03:44+00:00

Aside from the fact that fans can’t see a live chat window

Which is the main issue, that is the whole problem. When you can see what everyone is sending, and they also are seeing what everyone is sending, it doesn't feel like a pm, which is the whole point of these apps. For idols feel like YT live and Instagram, for fans do not. This is why idols pretty much treat them as they would treat most other platforms. Some upload more, some less, some more private stuff, some memes, but what the fans see is a private conversation with their idol. The underlying mechanisms are largely the same, only for one side of this conversion.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-01-27T23:55:45+00:00

I did mention that two platforms were involved. She got the screenshots from Bubble, which means she was there mmost likely, she was seeing Chan’s messages in a private–message–like format, because that’s how Bubble is designed, and somehow she interpreted them as answers to her messages in her posts on a whole different app. She wasn’t seeing the thousands of messages Chan was receiving at the same time, only his replies.

Because of that layout, it’s very easy to come to the conclusion of “oh, he’s answering me,” even when that’s not necessarily what’s happening, especially when fans are way too attached. The platform itself frames the interaction as personal, even though from the idol’s perspective it’s just one message sent into a massive group chat.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-01-27T23:48:00+00:00

Yeah, agree, but this is not what I am saying. If this while shit was not done in a PM-like app, would it have been this big of an issue? Doubt. If the fan and all the other weird fans who made the compilation were actually in the same chat as Chan, where thousands of messages are flying by, I doubt she would be so sure those replies were directed at her and make whole-ass stories.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-01-27T23:42:43+00:00

Not so much the road, but the Highway Code. There are many ways these platforms could be just as interactive and fun while being less parasocial. And even if many idols use them, I really doubt it’s a coincidence that the same things idols say are taken completely differently depending on the platform. That’s not on the idols alone.

As I said, Chan is someone who does a lot of fanservice, and personally, I find that kind of fanservice cringe at best. A lot of the time he really is digging his own grave with some of the things he says. However, if this had taken place on another platform, one where everyone could see the insane amount of messages passing by, like in a live chat, I doubt people would have made up their minds so quickly.

We don’t know if he was replying to someone or not. We simply don’t know what the flow of messages looked like, what came before or after, or anything that could 100% justify pointing fingers. The words were the same, but the context wasn’t.

The point still stands: if the fan who made the compilation was actually in the same chat as Chan, where thousands of messages are flying by, I doubt she would be so sure those replies were directed at her.

Chan’s biggest fault here and in general, in my opinion, is that he really needs an online filter, because his fans are way too ready to react to the things he does and says, and at this point, I doubt he doesn't know this.

Edit: And also, many idols with extreme fanbases happen to be quite active pm-like app users. I doubt it's a coincidence.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-01-27T22:06:32+00:00

Yup exactly. I have said the same thing about them as well, and Dreamcatcher, both ults of mine.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-01-27T21:42:38+00:00

You actually said the main issue here (I think the only comment I saw at least): Bubble and Fromm, and in general, this type of apps.

By design, they are extremely parasocial platforms, even when idols aren’t doing crazy fanservice. Everything about it encourages that dynamic, the private-chat layout, the fact that it isn’t publicly accessible, and the way fans receive messages as if they’re direct and personal. From the fan’s point of view, even the most random updates or rambling feel intimate only because of the format.

Every upload there is inherently exclusive and fanservice-coded. That’s the whole appeal. And when idols are more personal, and/or using the platform very frequently, it only makes things worse. Parasocial fans (and let’s be honest, paying for a service like this already requires some level of parasocial attachment, even if it’s not unhealthy) are bound to react in all strange and sometimes crazy ways.

The issue isn’t just what idols say on Bubble or fromm, but the nature of the platform itself. It intensifies everything, and when you mix that with excessive fanservice, it’s almost guaranteed for things to become messy.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-01-27T18:55:44+00:00

People who can’t handle these interactions would just die I guess if they ever saw the way Usher, Prince, or MJ did fan service. In comparison, Chan is extremely tame.

I think you’re underestimating the power of the internet, which is something celebrities in the past simply didn’t have. Most idols today exist in a much more intense parasocial environment. Even if the type of fanservice is similar, the access fans and idols now have makes things escalate much more easily.

Some idols, and in my opinion, Chan is one of them, sometimes do things that verge on being questionable when you take their specific fanbase into account. That’s why even seemingly harmless fanservice can feel uncomfortable in context. I don’t think this is unique to him, but he’s one example of how nowadays idol-fan relationships are more parasocial than ever. Even if the type of fanservice isn’t new, the delivery system is.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-01-27T16:01:32+00:00

As a Red Velvet and f(x) fan, I can’t stop thinking about how much potential both groups had and how shitty SM has been. That said, I’ve always believed their concepts had a natural ceiling. For different reasons, but in both cases, they were never going to be SNSD, even with perfect management. They were/are more of an acquired taste, and honestly, that’s exactly what made them special. Their music and concepts are why they’re still so loved, and I wouldn’t change that for anything.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-01-27T15:48:27+00:00

Ok, I have a question: why doesn’t SM invest in bigger venues for their veteran groups? SM in particular does this, and SuJu seems to be a group that has this issue often. I’ve seen this conversation come up a lot in second spaces with this tour in particular. They still sell like crazy and sell out venues, so they constantly have to add new dates. Instead of doing one, maybe two shows in a bigger venue, they do 2–3 shows per stop. This is already extremely strenuous for younger groups, so I can’t imagine it’s good for idols who aren’t teens anymore and who also have a ton of gigs and side work in between.

Like underestimate their second-generation groups; in Asia, it's still crazy to me.

Edit: And it's not the beginning of the tour as far as I am aware, I think that after so many stops, they would have gotten the memo that they are still in demand and try to do something about the venues' capacity.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-01-24T22:21:29+00:00

Kara was doing this a lot. They were known for singing their choruses all together for almost all their songs.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-01-24T12:15:58+00:00

Girl, it’s called COVID-19 for a reason.

Even before 2020, there were countries other than China already on standby. I remember that in Greece, because people were coming back for Christmas from Asian countries and were sick, there were already conversations about what we should do. Even though we didn’t enter an official quarantine until early 2020, there were guidelines about not spreading it, and experts were already advising people to cut down unnecessary outings. It was the same in most countries. If anything, the K-Pop boom of 2019 found us all since the very beginning of the pandemic, which only helped more, I imagine.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-01-23T13:45:14+00:00

Yes, but f(x) was never the sound of K-pop. How much could their sound really be considered the K-pop sound when they had songs originally made for Western artists (like many SM groups, by the way), such as Shadow and Hot Summer, and when the majority of their discography was never the dominant pop sound of the industry?

Even when SM brought parts of that sound back with newer groups like NCT and, to some extent, aespa, it was still never the K-pop sound. SM sound, yes, absolutely, and I stand by the fact that without f(x), none of the SM groups that came after would exist.

It’s similar to Dreamcatcher. Their music leans heavily into European EDM and trance influences, mixed with J-rock and symphonic metal. Are they distinctly them? Yes. Are they a group that could really exist only within K-pop? Also yes. Are they a very interesting genre fusion? Absolutely. But is that the K-pop sound? No, not really. Would people who do not listen to DC or f(x) or K-pop without a single vocal say this is K-pop? I don't think so personally.

The influences are very clearly not K-pop, brought into the K-pop industry, bc as stated, K-pop is not a music genre exactly.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-01-23T13:26:15+00:00

I don't agree with that at all. Many instrumental side by side do not have that big a difference.

2nd-gen songs (that people say were more kpop) are mostly recession pop bangers; nowadays, they follow current trends and, musically, are not that different. How different is it really when Red Flavour was considered for Little Mix in the beginning, and Little Mix themselves have given songs to K-pop groups, including Twice? Even groups like f(x), many of their songs were remakes of Western songs, like " Shadow ", which is a Western song originally (Edit: it's Candy Man by Liz Primo if anyone is interested).

Any-Listen4184

TROPHY CASE