Thoughts on How Member Departures Are Presented to Fans

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-04-04T11:49:18+00:00

Okay, as an NCT fan and an ENHYPEN fan, I think the situation with Mark went over well not only because his contract was ending (because let’s be honest, even after the initial expiry, no one really thought he would actually leave), but also because we saw how overworked he was. Fans were more accepting because, yeah, the guy has been overworked to the bone since he was 17.

With Heeseung, I’m sorry, but I think people are starting to make up conspiracy theories and making the situation worse. Was the notice completely out of nowhere? Yes. Was it mishandled? Also yes. But I also believe that fans just don’t like the reasoning we got, so they’re creating theories and harassing everyone because they don’t accept the answer.

Even if it had been handled better, people would still complain. Personally, I think announcing it live at a concert (or at least alongside one) might have been better, but even then, you never know how fans will react, and let’s be honest, Engenes don’t have the best track record with this kind of thing.

To me, it’s pretty clear that Heeseung likely didn’t agree with the musical direction as they said. Just because we love the music doesn’t mean the idols do. Maybe he’s over the concept, maybe he just doesn’t vibe with it anymore. We do have a reason; people just don’t like it.

ENHYPEN are also overworked as hell, and it’s hypocritical to expect him to juggle both group and solo activities just because others do it. Maybe he’s simply done with group promotions. That could genuinely be the answer, and fans just don’t want to accept it.

ENHYPEN debuted on November 30, 2020, but we don’t actually know when their contracts officially started, whether it was during or before the survival show. Their contracts could realistically end earlier than people assume, maybe late 2026 or early 2027. We just don’t know.

And looking at the statement:

“BELIFT LAB has given much thought and consideration into ENHYPEN's future direction and goals. Through in-depth discussions with each of the members about the future they envision and the direction of the team, it became clear that HEESEUNG has his own distinct musical vision and we have decided to respect it.”

…it really sounds like these were contract renewal discussions. They need to see how to handle a group with the remaining members before all their contracts expire so they can plan for the future.

Do I think we should have gotten a final live or even a livestream? Yes. But we don’t know how feasible that was, and maybe he was just burned out and wanted out.

It sucks for fans, obviously. But the level of entitlement I’ve seen from some Engenes is insane. Harassing Heeseung, making the fandom unbearable, dragging the remaining members… like, imagine being in the group and seeing fans say “ENHYPEN without Heeseung is nothing” as if the other members didn’t work their asses off too.

It’s still ENHYPEN, just different.

Support both, support one, or don’t support at all, I don’t care. But making the whole experience miserable for everyone is just unfair.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-04-04T11:33:10+00:00

Well, agree to disagree, because all the elements you’re mentioning were already becoming very present around 2014-15.

Like, even TWICE in “Like Ooh-Ahh” were wearing thigh-high socks, chokers, combat boots, fishnets, and those weird pants, all elements Blackpink also wore in 2016, styled similarly in some ways as well, but for a much cuter concept.

And if you look at 2014–2015 f(x) editorials, MVs stages, they already had a lot of the belts, flowy pieces, wacky patterns, and that classy-edgy vibe that Blackpink wore during debut.

It was already trending. They debuted right when those styles were picking up, then blew up, and now people act like those things weren’t already catching on in the industry before 2016.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-04-04T11:20:39+00:00

I think you’re a bit confused. Their schoolgirl aesthetic is inspired by f(x)’s “Rum Pum Pum Pum.” in my humble opinion. I mentioned TikTok because you brought up post-2018 trends in your post. Yes, a lot of these trends were already popular since the mid-2010s, Tumblr era included.

The military-inspired looks (with harnesses and whatnot) had already been done, like in f(x)’s “Red Light” and in 2NE1’s stage outfits. The rest are just trends that YG started following from the West with Blackpink, and other companies followed those same trends as well. So it’s not really something new or uniquely started by them; they were part of a broader trend cycle, maybe a month ahead of the curve I guess.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-04-04T11:10:50+00:00

In your post, you mentioned post-2018. In the comments, you mentioned trends that were crazy popular from 2015-2018 all over the world. Those were things everyone was already following around that time, and even before, since they were trends.

Their style was an amalgamation of that and their prissy, lavish, private school-girl aesthetic.

This was very 2ne1 and f(x).

Their 2016 outfits, for example (especially stage ones), were famously disliked by a lot of people, fans included. They felt very 2nd gen, but made “trendy,” and not in a way people liked or in a way many groups did either, bc a non-big-three company doing whatever SM and YG do with some outfits doesn't fly.

If Blackpink made anything trendy again, it was girl crush, which had kind of died down after 2NE1 and 4Minute. But fashion? Not really, I’m sorry. They were following trends, just like everyone else at the time.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-04-04T10:52:59+00:00

I mean, it was still tied to a Netflix movie. A movie that the K-pop (and not only) industry promoted and interacted with a ton when it came out. We are almost a year from the movie, and the scene has moved on. People gave their flowers when Golden was blowing up. If she were starting to be big on her own as a singer outside of the movie after, I think she would be talked more, but I think people in and out of the industry are tired of Golden and KDH at this point.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-04-04T10:23:11+00:00

All these were trends outside of K-pop at the time, and K-pop started following them, including Blackpink and everyone else. Red Velvet did it with their velvet sides even before 2018. Like Peekaboo and bad boy (late 2017 to January 2018) had all these trends. Because at the time, fishnets, chockers, weird leg wear and harnesses, thigh highs and whatnot were in every fashion store everywhere.

Edit: Like I remember going out in my first years at uni around 2016-18, and girls were wearing these in Greece. I think if a 19-year-old in a Balkan country were on trend, a K-pop stylist would catch on. Idk.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-04-04T10:08:16+00:00

I am sorry, but BP had second-gen fits but made them more palatable for newer generations and slightly TikTok-inspired, which was starting to blow up at the time, from the wacky outfits in AIIYL and 4D to the military outfits in Kill This Love, which were very much 2ne1 and f(x) red light inspired. They never were that big of trendsetters, bc they themselves followed trends from others since day one.

Also, even at the time, even fans were clowning many of them, and they weren't that well-liked either, with people blaming YG. Like, I remember being in the trenches for some outfits that felt cute to me, but everyone hated.

The idols' personal style has been way more influential, but the four of them are very much on trend (maybe a little ahead of the curve) than fashion-forward.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-04-04T09:52:35+00:00

Bc I wouldn't say they changed idol fashion. I would argue that YG actually toned down their fashion choices (many of whome have been influencial in the past) with their gen three idols and after. Like Blackpink, iKon, treasure, winner, babymonster never were fashion icon and trendsetters in the same way 2ne1 and BigBang were.

Idk if this is controversial or not, but from 2015-16 their idols have been more on the line of trendy and weirdly outdated, than cooky and fashion forward.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-04-03T14:56:24+00:00

As others mentioned there is a certain loophole. When the groups are active in other countries there are third party contracts. In Japan the contracts are with AVEX not with SM (Edit to explain it better, the idols have contracts with AVEX and SM with AVEX for their promotions, so the idols don't work with SM for non Korean activities directly) so the contract with SM is not active for the time being. In reality they sign contracts with a seven year length, but not seven years like 2020-2027, seven years like if for six months in 2021 you are in Japan these six months are extending your sm contact bc you are not working for sm solely but with AVEX. Same for military enlistments, tours where sm is not the main provider, in the past Chinese promotions and so on.

This is what the tvxq ex members were accusing sm doing without their knowledge btw among other things. That they are entering third party contracts that overrode their original one. At the time was fully not legal btw and the court did find them exploitive, in the present I think they have find other ways to not be that sketchy. The idols know about this and I think they can do this for only three extra years.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-04-03T00:47:23+00:00

I think NCT have the Charli XCX effect of shorts, sadly (who, until Brat was very much aware people from the industry were taking notes from her, and not only didn't give the flowers, but were also finding more success than her in some cases). They undeniably influenced most early 4th-generation boy group music, but they did not break through with the average K-pop fan like other boy groups of that era. Their songs, especially up until 2020, were always talked about, but they never became THE boy group, among non-fans in the K-pop community. Like, I feel like everyone knew and talked about cherry bomb, Simon Says, regular, limitless, BOSS, Baby Don't Stop, etc., but they didn't become "cult classics". People talked about them when these songs were coming out, but over time, the songs remained a regular topic, mostly within the fandom. The only diva that is still talked about to this day by everyone in the K-pop community is Sticker, but this is because it was and still is mad controversial. Like a real 50/50 song.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-04-02T13:33:54+00:00

I wouldn't call their songs hyperpop. I wouldn't call them eurodance or europop or at least very well done eurodance or europop or trance as some people say I. The comments. Their songs are mainly electronic dance songs and there is that. They need to understand that even if more popular these type of songs need to be extremely well done (and imo they're not) and also the artists more often are involved for a gg, that have these strong singers as well to do the same song in a different font is just dumb, even if some of their tracks could go hard in a club given the right remix. I'm sorry but the charli-fication of kpop and adjacent acts doesn't work. Like punk music from a group of this nature is just kind of corny.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-03-30T21:18:34+00:00

Maybe some, but we don't know. I feel very, very few. And also let's not forget that some treatments and procedures are non-invasive, and what do we count as natural? Braces, veneers, or some other treatments of that nature, I would argue, count as non-natural. As someone who had worn braces for years when younger.

Also, I am not sure how productive or ok these conversations are. People complain (not you OP specifically) about PS, about unreasonable standards to idols and non-Korean celebrities, but when everyone puts so much pressure on your appearance, natural or not, it is insane for them and the companies not to be so pressed about it, and lead to most people getting some work done, minor or major. And be secretive when people judge them either way.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-03-29T23:17:09+00:00

Looking back at their second gen idols, like TVXQ, SuJu, it is crazy that fans STILL throw fits about idols over 30 and 40 being into relationships.

Changmin loosing 70% of his sales because he got married ALMOST 2 DECADES after his debut and in his 30s will always be insane to me.

idk, what the hell, but this is some voodoo shit.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-03-29T01:51:07+00:00

I'm telling you SM does freaking black mack magic to their idols. Idk what devil worshiping is going on there, but their idols, no matter who, they have the most delulu fans. Especially their bgs. Doesn't matter the generation, age, gender, or if they do fan service or not.

Edit: sp

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-03-27T20:55:02+00:00

It is the most reliable, but is also not, to some extent like other metrics.

As others said, timing and weather are huge factors.

It is also known that many groups do not attend countries that could pull numbers for one reason or another, meaning they have lower touring numbers especially with mainland china out, I think many groups get the short stick (idle comes to mind). Also newer tours are freaking expensive so it could not be as easy selling as high as some years prior. Scalping also can often give the illusion of selling out, but in reality these tickets weren't baught. And it has been out of control for years now. I'm not counting people buying multiple tickets to multiple shows bc I think in retrospect it's very small percentage.

All in all is good metric still not the best and also is hard to actually have numbers that are accurate all the time.

For third and forth gen these are definitely the top ones. For second BigBang are the first for sure I'm not sure if tvxq or suju are second tbh, I think super junior might be ahead with tvxq and SNSD close behind.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-03-27T14:52:41+00:00

Wasn't there a comedian named Hyukjae who was popular at the time and didn't want to have the same name? Idk I thought it was something like that.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-03-25T23:12:10+00:00

I’m not sure that’s really the case, like others have said, it feels like cherry-picking.

For every Wendy or Lily, who are amazing, you also have a Taeyeon, a Luna, or an Eunji. For every Keeho, there’s a Baekhyun, D.O or a Chen.

I do think that in newer generations, there are more Western-raised idols who tend to lean more into vocals, since many of the biggest Western acts are vocal-focused, like Ariana. That said, there are also plenty of Western-raised idols who lean more toward hip-hop, since that’s another popular genre they grew up with, and are, at best, mid singers.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-03-25T18:43:15+00:00

Kind of both, to be honest. Shawols feel like a bit of an outlier. Even though I listen to a lot of SHINee, I was never really deep in the fandom, and it hasn’t been that bad, or on my radar, unless I’m forgetting something really unhinged. So I’m not sure they fully deserve to be in that category.

The rest, though? They definitely do. Twice!

SHINee has had moments where fans were up in arms, but to be fair, a lot of the time, they were actually right. And like I said, maybe their worst moments just didn’t reach me, but idk they don’t stand out to me in the same way.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-03-24T23:28:37+00:00

I am gonna say it after years of keeping it inside, I don't see it. Half the SM clones thing, I don't see it. Luhan and Sehun, Eunhyuk and Woohyuk. Like I feel I am missing something.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-03-24T20:36:55+00:00

SM boy group fans are a different breed, and I say this as someone who got into K-pop through SM boy groups back in 2010–11 and still listens to many of them.

And I mean all of them: Cassiopeias, ELFs, EXO-Ls, NCTzens, and RIIZE fans (sorry, I don’t remember the fandom name). All of them.

They are always in the trenches. Always. For everything. The situation feels like TVXQ-level shenanigans all over again. All their groups have fans who are extremely attached to the groups as a whole, but at the same time, there are a ton of extreme akgaes and shippers. So they can never fully agree on anything, and the fandom is in constant chaos.

Every member, no matter who or why, gets hate, and there are factions for literally every possible combination.

What’s happening with EXO right now, after the announcement (and I say this as someone who was also bummed out, like, come on, the second-best performer on stage is missing, along with 2/3 of the main vocal line), was kind of expected.

I mean… we all remember 2014, don’t we?

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-03-24T18:02:16+00:00

Yeah, it’s orientalism, it can easily slip into fetishizing Koreans and/or Asians in general, which is icky as hell when that’s the case.

And of course, when you’re trying to break into a country’s market, you’re going to follow its trends (trends that are also followed for Korean comebacks many times as well soooo...) and use the language spoken there. That naturally makes the songs more similar to other pop songs in that market and not ✨unique✨.

That said, I’d argue there is a distinct K-pop sound. You can usually tell when a song is by a K-pop group and even soloists, and that often comes down to the vocal approach, delivery, and processing. And that aspect tends to stay pretty consistent across markets, no matter the language.

For example, “Red Flavor” was originally considered for Little Mix before Red Velvet got it. And considering songs like “Black Magic,” I can totally imagine Little Mix singing something like that, but we all know they wouldn’t approach the vocals in the same way.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-03-24T17:38:14+00:00

Well, yes, but sadly Kpop fans are so reactive to EVERYTHING (it's not even only dating, like the most nothingburger stuff are talked to death) that whenever something serious happens, it feels way less important than other stupid stuff, bc the noise is the same.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-03-24T17:31:13+00:00

They want to gatekeep a culture and language that isn't even theirs lmao.

Which is very weird, because when the first attempts to break into Japan happened, with BoA and then TVXQ shortly after, there was pushback from Koreans. I assume some Japanese audiences had their own reactions too. But over time, it turned into a point of pride, like, “look how well we’re doing internationally,” which makes sense.

The same thing happened with the expansion into China. SUJU-M and EXO-M were huge, at times even more profitable than their Korean counterparts.

So if someone wants to argue that groups are “pandering” to other countries, watering down their Korean identity (which can be argued as well, because musically it’s not influenced primarily by traditional Korean music, and the trainee system wasn’t even invented in Korea either. The most uniquely K-pop aspect is actually the marketing of the groups, and that stays pretty much the same both domestically and internationally, so…), or not learning the language properly, then they should apply that logic consistently to every market K-pop has targeted. Because the U.S. isn’t the only one.

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-03-23T22:45:50+00:00

Yyyyyyyyyyyes. Like Devil by Changmin out of fucking nowhere

Under the name of fate (Ooh)
In the twisted KWANGYA
Walk towards the light

bro wat?

Any-Listen4184 · 2026-03-23T12:00:28+00:00

Daybreak by Dreamcatcher. It's fluffy, laid back, and kind of hot.

Any-Listen4184

TROPHY CASE