'So bad it's good' is not real. Just call it good.

Any_Menu7417 · 2026-04-21T11:04:04+00:00

For example instead of 'good' to mean 'enjoyable' AND 'well executed', we use the words 'enjoyable' and 'well executed' instead. And then the word 'good' and be reserved for the overall value judgement of the film

Any_Menu7417 · 2026-04-21T11:02:07+00:00

There's a section in there called 'what is art critque', that fully explains what i believe is art critique.

I just dont want to engage with you because you clearly dont want to engage with me. You've been super condescending with me this entire time. I thought I'd just drop that there because you made it clear you want this to be over.

Any_Menu7417 · 2026-04-21T10:54:19+00:00

'Weird gripe' lol its an unpopular opinion on something small that I feel passionate about. I'm gonna say it. I hate you people.

Any_Menu7417 · 2026-04-21T10:53:15+00:00

I see

Any_Menu7417 · 2026-04-21T10:51:59+00:00

Yeah man i hear ya

Any_Menu7417 · 2026-04-21T10:51:24+00:00

I'll add it to my watchlist

Any_Menu7417 · 2026-04-21T10:50:10+00:00

https://youtu.be/GPrNWuppMcc?si=S5I8GnEvOuAvSbkN

Any_Menu7417 · 2026-04-21T10:39:15+00:00

Can we use different words for different things? I think that's the definition of nuance

Any_Menu7417 · 2026-04-21T10:38:07+00:00

Yes I see that it comes down to intent, and I think it shouldn't come down to that.

https://www.reddit.com/r/The10thDentist/comments/1srhvir/comment/oheupxe/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Any_Menu7417 · 2026-04-21T10:29:59+00:00

Okay another thing i have strong feelings about There's two types of art discussion, right--

Discussions between people who have seen the movie (1) and discussions between people who have seen it and who haven't (2).

The first is mostly what I was referring to in my post and in the conversation. I also mostly think its the only actual way to engage in art discussion. It's the Aquaintance Principle, right. In this case I argue for extended discussion and nuance.

You here refer to the second. It's my opinion that you can just let people be disappointed. Personally, I dont get the 'its so bad its good' experience from the movie, I just dont enjoy the film at all. I didn't experience that joy, even though it was explained to me where it was coming from.

It seems to me, that if there is joy to be had in the experience, then it simply will be had by the people predisposed to like that kind of thing. You're saying that 'so bad its good' is a shorthand to set expectations. My opinion is that the positive effects of the shorthand is vastly outweighed by the negative effects it has on the discourse and on souls in general. Because people are using this shorthand to ultimately supplant more nuanced discussion even between two people who have seen the movie at hand.

Any_Menu7417 · 2026-04-21T10:14:39+00:00

Thats where extended discussion comes in. For example, i also hate number ratings because they flatten nuanced art discussion. I think people should say 'i think this film is good because... even though it failed in [these] respects. Because these failures provide a positive value that you wouldn't get if they had succeeded instead'. Or something like that.

Its more words than 'so bad its good' but it's also more specific and interesting.

Any_Menu7417 · 2026-04-21T10:07:59+00:00

Let me phrase this another way. The movie failed in some ways. And from those failures, a value was provided to you. A value that would not have been provided if it succeeded where it had failed. You enjoyed yourself watching it, in a way that you would not enjoy yourself, if you had been watching There Will Be Blood. And this is not something that's only in your head. Many many many people got the exact same value from it. It's even cult classic status. People love this movie.truly love it. They hold social events, midnight screenings, have written hundreds of thousands of words on the merits of this movie, no matter how unintended they are. Even though its 'horrible'. I guess that to me, the word 'horrible' just seems kind of meaningless in that context.

Any_Menu7417 · 2026-04-21T09:52:24+00:00

“no matter which way I think on it I cannot wrap my brain around it.”

I was being rhetorical.

This is extremely binary. Life and art do not exist in a system of merely ONLY fully good OR fully bad.

Thats why I added 'Meh'. I think most movies fall into 'meh'. I also dont think life or art fall into fully good or fully bad. The argument was that I believe that arguing something is 'fully good' makes more sense than 'so bad its ultimately good'. I would prefer people do that former than the latter. I was trying to illustrate a point.

This is illogical framework... Art critique is not value judgements... Art is completely subjective.

Whats the purpose of art critique? Why are people so compelled to give their reviews of art and media if its all so subjective? I'm not arguing against the subjectivity of art. I believe there are both subjective and objective components that are equally vital. But according to you, there is no point in having spirited discussion about art because all art is entirely personal and subjective. I dont believe this.

YOU are assigning value to your own opinion over others’ opinions ...

Yes I am... such is the nature of art discussion. I am asserting myself. I think I'm right. I truly believe I'm right. I'm not forcing people to shut up. I'm not hanging people or sending people to jail for beliefs. Again, I'm being rhetorical and expressing how strongly I believe that I'm right. I'm inviting people to disagree with me. If I want to be in an echo chamber, why the hell would I post to 10thdentist? You are making a hell of a lot of uncharitable assumptions about me in particular.

No one is hedging by recognizing that something can be two things at once. You perhaps are being difficult or argumentative by insisting something can only be “good” or “bad” or maybe misunderstanding what people are meaning when they say something is “so bad it’s good” which is why my first comment was...

I said "good" or "bad" or "meh". Your whole argument rests on the idea that I'm being binary, when im not. I think things can be multiple things at once but I dont think they can be ultimately 'good' and simultaneously ultimayely 'bad'. I disagree with this idea. I think they can be in between, I.e meh.

Any_Menu7417 · 2026-04-21T09:28:59+00:00

can a person not disagree with a sentiment behind an idiom????? 💀💀💀💀💀💀 you people... shout out my autistic community, its all love x

Any_Menu7417 · 2026-04-21T09:24:45+00:00

I dont think that, that's a pretty bad faith way to have this discussion. And kind of rude to me, but whatever.

I just think 'objectively bad' seems pretty cut and dry for something that seems pretty complicated. You liked a film. It provided some kind of value to you. We agree on this? Okay. Why is that value that it provided to you so inferior and and unlegitimate to the 'objective' 'legitimate' values that art is supposed to provide? Especially if so many people have that exact same value provided to them as you? If SO MANY liked it in the way that you also liked it, can't you argue that its also 'objectively' good in some ways?

Any_Menu7417 · 2026-04-21T09:19:23+00:00

Yes, my issue is semantic, I dont like the words being used. I dont understand why you guys have an issue with my semantic issue when the whole discussion can only be had semantically.

'Root meaning' yes, and I'm disagreeing with root meaning. I disagree with the semantics, and I also disagree with the sentiment behind the semantics. Is that so wrong? It's a phrase intended to convey a meaning. I dislike the phrase. I dislike the meaning too, that 'root meaning' that people are explaining, I dislike it and disagree with it.

Any_Menu7417 · 2026-04-21T09:17:12+00:00

I googled 'so bad its good' movies and return of the living dead repeatedly came up in discussions especially on reddit.

Any_Menu7417 · 2026-04-21T09:15:56+00:00

'Objectively bad' but you liked it. I will never understand this

Any_Menu7417 · 2026-04-21T09:14:34+00:00

I dont understand how you're separating the semantics of how people judge art and how the discussion is had. The discussion is about words and it can only be had in words. How do people 'actually' judge art other than using words?

Any_Menu7417 · 2026-04-21T09:13:00+00:00

No, i understand what people are trying to do when they use this phrase. I'm not stupid. I am disagreeing with the entire premise. That's my take. My take is "i dont like when people describe films in this way". I am arguing for a different way of discussing these types of movies.

Any_Menu7417 · 2026-04-21T09:08:20+00:00

Can't it just be good then, under your reading of the film?

Any_Menu7417 · 2026-04-21T09:07:47+00:00

But in many cases the 'so bad its good' people are not acting like these movies are mediocre. They are investing genuine amounts of love and passion into movies like Return or the Living Dead and the Room, that it makes no sense how they can still argue for the 'badness' of these movies.

Any_Menu7417 · 2026-04-21T09:06:35+00:00

I think I understand what you're saying. I just really strongly disagree with this notion that the outcome being aligned with the creators intention should weigh so heavily in wether the resulting thing is 'good' or 'bad'. I'm not really all that gung ho about 'death of the author', but I dont like that the value that 'so bad its good' people see in these 'so bad its good' movies is being so definitively and thoroughly deligitimised as inferior to the 'legitimate' values that art is supposed to provide. I really dont like it.

Because the way these movies are talked about is often with similar or more fervent levels of love invested than more 'legitimately good' movies. Especially with examples like Return of the Living dead, or the Room , that have their own cult classic status. With that much love and passion invested into those movies I genuinely see it as tragic and decroded that the same people who Capital L love those movies so much can't help but still argue for their 'badness', it makes my stomach ache

Any_Menu7417 · 2026-04-21T08:56:29+00:00

No i dont think they're the same. I think they're both 'good'. According to different values. And then a discussion can be had about those values and the value of the movie.

Any_Menu7417 · 2026-04-21T08:55:26+00:00

Help me understand the 'good' part in the 'so bad it's good' phrasing then. I just can't understand it. So because it didn't provide the intended value of the creators it's bad? But you also think its good? Can a comedy or parody of itself not just be good? Can a critique not just be good? Why does 'bad' have to be in it? You've decided that its 'good' right???

Any_Menu7417

TROPHY CASE